Air India announces Australia non-stop
Jun 30, 2013, 7:28 pm
#46
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: cbr
Programs: QF WP (OWE) / LTG (LT OWS) | Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 4,972
Well, looks like August is when it starts. PVDtoDEL seems to have gotten the timing bit right, however, I simply don't believe that AI (especially without an alliance to bank on) will gain much traction between the AU/EU business market, especially when the defacto national carrier of India already offers excellent one stop connectivity between SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL/PER and EU.
Combine that with multiple departures a day (schedule flexibility) local tie up (via Qantas!) and AI would have to be pricing its product at a really attractive price point to gain traction. Then there's the next new entrant Garuda waiting in the wings, wanting in on the Kangaroo route.
I suspect AI will get lumped (and compete) with the Mainland China carriers wanting in on the action on the AU-EU traffic through what they are calling the "Canton" route.
There's just far too many options between AU and EU for a new entrant like AI to grab market share without competing on price.
Depending on the pricing ex-India, I might be tempted to give them a run (then again, that is a lot of points and status credits I'd be giving up on - I guess if they undercut CX by 30% or so, my arm could be sufficiently twisted)
Jun 30, 2013, 8:28 pm
#47
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,421
http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-india-to...ne-from-august
Well, looks like August is when it starts. PVDtoDEL seems to have gotten the timing bit right, however, I simply don't believe that AI (especially without an alliance to bank on) will gain much traction between the AU/EU business market, especially when the defacto national carrier of India already offers excellent one stop connectivity between SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL/PER and EU.
Combine that with multiple departures a day (schedule flexibility) local tie up (via Qantas!) and AI would have to be pricing its product at a really attractive price point to gain traction. Then there's the next new entrant Garuda waiting in the wings, wanting in on the Kangaroo route.
I suspect AI will get lumped (and compete) with the Mainland China carriers wanting in on the action on the AU-EU traffic through what they are calling the "Canton" route.
There's just far too many options between AU and EU for a new entrant like AI to grab market share without competing on price.
Depending on the pricing ex-India, I might be tempted to give them a run (then again, that is a lot of points and status credits I'd be giving up on - I guess if they undercut CX by 30% or so, my arm could be sufficiently twisted)
Well, looks like August is when it starts. PVDtoDEL seems to have gotten the timing bit right, however, I simply don't believe that AI (especially without an alliance to bank on) will gain much traction between the AU/EU business market, especially when the defacto national carrier of India already offers excellent one stop connectivity between SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL/PER and EU.
Combine that with multiple departures a day (schedule flexibility) local tie up (via Qantas!) and AI would have to be pricing its product at a really attractive price point to gain traction. Then there's the next new entrant Garuda waiting in the wings, wanting in on the Kangaroo route.
I suspect AI will get lumped (and compete) with the Mainland China carriers wanting in on the action on the AU-EU traffic through what they are calling the "Canton" route.
There's just far too many options between AU and EU for a new entrant like AI to grab market share without competing on price.
Depending on the pricing ex-India, I might be tempted to give them a run (then again, that is a lot of points and status credits I'd be giving up on - I guess if they undercut CX by 30% or so, my arm could be sufficiently twisted)
Jun 30, 2013, 8:44 pm
#48
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SEA/ORD/ADB
Programs: TK ELPL (*G), AS 100K (OWE), BA Gold (OWE), Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat
Posts: 7,763
With the recent changes to the European departure bank, the connections to Europe are now absolutely atrocious. 20ish hours for all cities but London...
Middle East/KTM will connect reasonably well, but there is a ton of competition. These flights will have to fill themselves up with domestic feed.
Which perhaps isn't a bad thing - there's a lot less competition of ATQ-MEL, for example, than there is on LHR-MEL.
Middle East/KTM will connect reasonably well, but there is a ton of competition. These flights will have to fill themselves up with domestic feed.
Which perhaps isn't a bad thing - there's a lot less competition of ATQ-MEL, for example, than there is on LHR-MEL.
Last edited by PVDtoDEL; Jun 30, 2013 at 8:56 pm
Jun 30, 2013, 9:48 pm
#50
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: cbr
Programs: QF WP (OWE) / LTG (LT OWS) | Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 4,972
Well, it is AI, so making money isn't a concern but, it seems the only way they'll get pax on their metal is via sharp pricing, and in absence of any alliance affinity, it'll have to truly be sharp!
I'm sure there's a sound business case floating around somewhere in the MoCA, but I'm just not seeing any solid reasons why AI would want to start this route, apart from "prestige"
[QUOTE=PVDtoDEL;21018705]
Middle East/KTM will connect reasonably well, but there is a ton of competition.
EY/EK/QR all connect middle east to PER/SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL as a one stop affair via their respective hubs. Without even throwing SQ/MH into the mix, the AU-Middle East market has more than sufficient capacity.
The domestic feed argument is fine and dandy if I'm starting my journey north of Delhi, or within DEL's catchment area to the south (lets say upto 6 hours by road). Any further out and its just as easier to get to AMD/BOM/BLR/HYD/MAA/CCU and have a one stop connection to most capital cities in Australia. If you add Silkair feeding into SQ to the mix, you get another 2-3 smaller towns that I haven't included; so the only incentive to fly via DEL on AI (apart from the novelty of being on a 787) would have to be price.
Not to mention majority of the traffic that makes up the domestic feed you mention is VFR and thus very seasonal and cost conscious.
I'm sure there's a sound business case floating around somewhere in the MoCA, but I'm just not seeing any solid reasons why AI would want to start this route, apart from "prestige"
[QUOTE=PVDtoDEL;21018705]
Middle East/KTM will connect reasonably well, but there is a ton of competition.
EY/EK/QR all connect middle east to PER/SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL as a one stop affair via their respective hubs. Without even throwing SQ/MH into the mix, the AU-Middle East market has more than sufficient capacity.
Not to mention majority of the traffic that makes up the domestic feed you mention is VFR and thus very seasonal and cost conscious.
Jun 30, 2013, 10:14 pm
#51
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: bombay
Posts: 1,408
The domestic feed argument is fine and dandy if I'm starting my journey north of Delhi, or within DEL's catchment area to the south (lets say upto 6 hours by road). Any further out and its just as easier to get to AMD/BOM/BLR/HYD/MAA/CCU and have a one stop connection to most capital cities in Australia. If you add Silkair feeding into SQ to the mix, you get another 2-3 smaller towns that I haven't included; so the only incentive to fly via DEL on AI (apart from the novelty of being on a 787) would have to be price.
Not to mention majority of the traffic that makes up the domestic feed you mention is VFR and thus very seasonal and cost conscious.
Not to mention majority of the traffic that makes up the domestic feed you mention is VFR and thus very seasonal and cost conscious.
However, we will find that, like Macavity, the traffic from north India just isn't there.
I don't see the rest of the country flocking to fly AI through Dilly, when there's a plethora of options that don't involve going backwards (plus several more that do).
Either AI have to be much better than the competition (not a chance in hell) or they have to price well below cost (ie: let's screw the taxpayers even more).
Even then it's a crapshoot. Worse with less than two months to (supposedly) go and it's not even available for general sale yet.
Besides, as you mentioned, the traffic between north India and Australia seems to be low-yielding, trashy, seasonal, uni-directional and largely imaginary. All headed in one direction for a few weeks in the year and in the other direction for another few weeks.
For some reason, Australia seems to attract a disproportionate number of "students" who enrol in hairdressing school or egg-poaching college. Many go once, one one-way tickets, and never return even for holidays, until they have residence secured.
Jul 1, 2013, 6:37 am
#52
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DEL
Posts: 292
Reminds me of my classmates in 10th standard, we all cleared school in 2003 and started planning our futures. Out of 12 guys (i went to school in small town), 5 of them are in Australia (3 has PR and 2 never came back ever sine and won't until they get the PR).
Jul 1, 2013, 7:14 am
#53
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: IHG Platinum
Posts: 1,198
[QUOTE=jasepl;21019021]
For some reason, Australia seems to attract a disproportionate number of "students" who enrol in hairdressing school or egg-poaching college. Many go once, one one-way tickets, and never return even for holidays, until they have residence secured.[/QUOTE
I think those days are pretty much over.. The mentioned skill sets featured in their requirement lists about 4 - 5 years back and we successfully filled up them slots, by all possible ways..!!! Has become a bit harder though now...
On a more a related note, India - Australia fares are high for the most part, year - round and i guess like most other routes, the avg. Y class fare on this route has also gone up a fair bit over the years.....Would be interesting to see how AI prices their tickets when they're good to go...
For some reason, Australia seems to attract a disproportionate number of "students" who enrol in hairdressing school or egg-poaching college. Many go once, one one-way tickets, and never return even for holidays, until they have residence secured.[/QUOTE
I think those days are pretty much over.. The mentioned skill sets featured in their requirement lists about 4 - 5 years back and we successfully filled up them slots, by all possible ways..!!! Has become a bit harder though now...
On a more a related note, India - Australia fares are high for the most part, year - round and i guess like most other routes, the avg. Y class fare on this route has also gone up a fair bit over the years.....Would be interesting to see how AI prices their tickets when they're good to go...
Jul 1, 2013, 1:38 pm
#54
Used to be shahadil
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: BOM
Programs: Flying Returns, Jet Privilege, Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 805
del - mel for the inaugral flight on cleartrip one way is priced at 25k and the next highest is malaysian at 29k. for some reason sydney is not pricing out as of now. and the worst is air india website doesnt have sydney, melbourne or birmingham which are being started in august in their database yet.
Jul 1, 2013, 6:17 pm
#55
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: cbr
Programs: QF WP (OWE) / LTG (LT OWS) | Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 4,972
Cleartrip prices out a J r/t beween DEL and MEL at INR 166,771 while Cathay Pacific (via their website) for same route, same dates is INR 119, 449
AI's website still not showing MEL as a destination.
The decision is a no brainer on cost alone, and that's even before we get to the merits of hard and soft product offered on board and on the ground, and other aspects of status earning/recognition and the like.
Go figure.
AI's website still not showing MEL as a destination.
The decision is a no brainer on cost alone, and that's even before we get to the merits of hard and soft product offered on board and on the ground, and other aspects of status earning/recognition and the like.
Go figure.
Last edited by SQ421; Jul 1, 2013 at 6:33 pm
Jul 1, 2013, 7:13 pm
#56
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 1 AU
Programs: Support the Tyrants Travel Club
Posts: 2,708
Cleartrip prices out a J r/t beween DEL and MEL at INR 166,771 while Cathay Pacific (via their website) for same route, same dates is INR 119, 449
AI's website still not showing MEL as a destination.
The decision is a no brainer on cost alone, and that's even before we get to the merits of hard and soft product offered on board and on the ground, and other aspects of status earning/recognition and the like.
Go figure.
AI's website still not showing MEL as a destination.
The decision is a no brainer on cost alone, and that's even before we get to the merits of hard and soft product offered on board and on the ground, and other aspects of status earning/recognition and the like.
Go figure.
Jul 31, 2013, 6:35 am
#59
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: Lots, some no/low status some high status, can't be bothered to list them :-)
Posts: 1,951