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Old Mar 12, 2012 | 9:56 pm
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Determining the right strategy

An argument I often hear on this board, by some more than others, is that AI had the right strategy/horse/car/etc but just had the wrong management/jockey/driver/etc. I'm not sure this is right. Here's my reasoning:

AI seems to be an airline in which the management is inactive. They have not done anything new or remotely risky (perhaps because their managers don't have a real incentive to make AI profitable). The only thing they did introduce was IX, and I bet this was because of some kind of political pressure from Keralites. Of course an airline (or any company for that matter) that does not take any risks will be just as it is. This is what AI did.

Other airlines took their chances and failed. The other airlines took their chances because they had too: after 9/11 and the rise in oil prices in 2006-08, they had to do something innovative or they would go out of business. AI did not have to take these chances since they were backed by the government.

Supporters of AI look at the result of the game and conclude that the losers were dumb. However, that's not the right way to judge intelligence (or competence or rationality or whatever you want to call it). That is not right because outcomes can be influenced by [both good and bad] luck, which is what I think happened here (as in no one predicted the great recession). To truly judge intelligence, you should look at the strategies they employed at the start of the game, given the information available at that time.

Once you apply the framework I described, it's not clear to me that AI has the right strategy and IT/9W don't. Thoughts, comments, feedback appreciated.
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Old Mar 12, 2012 | 10:10 pm
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Originally Posted by hyderago
An argument I often hear on this board, by some more than others, is that AI had the right strategy/horse/car/etc but just had the wrong management/jockey/driver/etc. I'm not sure this is right. Here's my reasoning:

AI seems to be an airline in which the management is inactive. They have not done anything new or remotely risky (perhaps because their managers don't have a real incentive to make AI profitable). The only thing they did introduce was IX, and I bet this was because of some kind of political pressure from Keralites. Of course an airline (or any company for that matter) that does not take any risks will be just as it is. This is what AI did.
So you agree... The idea behind AI is fine, but the management isn't doing so well...
Originally Posted by hyderago
Other airlines took their chances and failed. The other airlines took their chances because they had too: after 9/11 and the rise in oil prices in 2006-08, they had to do something innovative or they would go out of business. AI did not have to take these chances since they were backed by the government.
Agree. AI had an inherent advantage, and they've made a hash out of it. However, I'd be hesitant to call what 9W and IT did in terms of IT Red/ 9Wk innovative. It created a branding mess and the airlines weren't quite sustainable because their costs were too high to be an LCC.

On the other hand, I would call what 9W did with S2 innovative. Keeping a completely separate airline under the same corporate umbrella, which can keep its own costs down but still enhance connectivity is an excellent idea. However, they made a bit of a hash of that idea as well - S2's costs are too high compared to 6E's or SG's... But the idea was a good one.
Originally Posted by hyderago
Supporters of AI look at the result of the game and conclude that the losers were dumb. However, that's not the right way to judge intelligence (or competence or rationality or whatever you want to call it). That is not right because outcomes can be influenced by [both good and bad] luck, which is what I think happened here (as in no one predicted the great recession). To truly judge intelligence, you should look at the strategies they employed at the start of the game, given the information available at that time.
I agree. Vision is always 20/20 in hindsight. It's easy to go and say now that those were dumb moves back then, but back then it wasn't as clear. That doesn't change the reality, however...

I never said that AI was "more intelligent" than 9W/IT. The idea behind AI is more intelligent than the idea behind IT. And on that token, I wouldn't disagree with the statement "JRD Tata was more intelligent than Vijay Mallya"
Originally Posted by hyderago
Once you apply the framework I described, it's not clear to me that AI has the right strategy and IT/9W don't. Thoughts, comments, feedback appreciated.
Looking back today, it's clear that AI's strategy was better than IT/9W. 9W's management has clearly been better, but the strategy they have employed is worse. However, I do think that while it's clear now, it wasn't clear back then.
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Old Mar 12, 2012 | 10:23 pm
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
I never said that AI was "more intelligent" than 9W/IT. The idea behind AI is more intelligent than the idea behind IT.
Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Looking back today, it's clear that AI's strategy was better than IT/9W. 9W's management has clearly been better, but the strategy they have employed is worse.
Can you please explain? In my mind, management and strategy/idea are the same thing. This is because the strategy is determined ex-ante, not ex-post. I think that you are referring to outcome, not strategy/idea.
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Old Mar 12, 2012 | 10:39 pm
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Originally Posted by hyderago
Can you please explain? In my mind, management and strategy/idea are the same thing. This is because the strategy is determined ex-ante, not ex-post. I think that you are referring to outcome, not strategy/idea.
When I say management, I mean the implementation of the strategy...
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 12:08 am
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Random thoughts on AI strategy or lack thereof


1.
Air India, started by JRD Tata in 1932, and acquired by the Government of India in 1953 has mainly operated on the premise of connecting pockets of Indian diaspora with India. In itself, that was a sound strategy in its early days, but has certainly left AI behind with the advent of super-hubs of DXB, AUH, SIN, BKK, HKG all around the 5 hour mark form most cities in India.

For someone flying from MAA/CCU/BLR/COK to say Europe or Far East, it is more convenient to change flights in DXB/SIN/BKK/HKG than spend 2-3 hours flying to DEL/BOM, run the gauntlet of transiting through airports that aren't the most transit friendly, and then carry on to their onward destination.

Limited connectivity at destinations certainly doesn't help either, when the carriers connecting through the aforementioned hubs have an option of delivering you much closer to your intended destination in your destination country, with a same one-stop journey.

Would you rather fly MAA-DEL-JFK-ORD or fly MAA-HKG-ORD ?


2.
Transiting in India can be a royal pain in the proverbial. There, I said it. Sure the new DEL airport gets good reviews, but transiting from International to Domestic (or vice versa) is not a welcome experience at the best of the times. Not many people want to deal with the chaotic experience of transferring between the domestic and international terminals (which are separate at BOM and DEL), and would much rather connect outside the country and fly direct to their destination.

If you had to spend 4 hours in transit, would you rather spend them at BOM, or spend them at SIN/HKG/DXB where transit is infinitely more pleasurable, and fly directly to your destination?

9W actually got this right to a great degree by using BRU as a scissor hub in Europe to connect its feeder flights from BOM/MAA/DEL to flights bound for JFK/EWR/YYZ

3.
For a while now, AI has been toying with the idea of a direct flight to Melbourne, Australia (MEL). For the life of me I can not fathom what it stands to gain by having a once daily flight flying such a long, thin and seasonal route. The flight will be of next to no use to anyone who's flying from outside of MEL and who's destination is any place outside the DEL catchment area. But, AI wants to do it.

Again, a better way would be to emulate 9W and fly to one of the Asian hubs from multiple Indian airports and feed the passengers onto another that flies to Australia. 9W codeshares with QF between SIN and India and SIN and Australia, and QF's recent pullout form India altogether seems to indicate that the codeshare strategy is working fine for the market it wishes to serve.

These three are the big "strategy" points that come to mind, and would be great to dissect and fix. Then ofcourse there's the usual suspects of reliability, service recovery, irrops, and what have you.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 12:35 am
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Originally Posted by SQ421
Random thoughts on AI strategy or lack thereof


1.
Air India, started by JRD Tata in 1932, and acquired by the Government of India in 1953 has mainly operated on the premise of connecting pockets of Indian diaspora with India. In itself, that was a sound strategy in its early days, but has certainly left AI behind with the advent of super-hubs of DXB, AUH, SIN, BKK, HKG all around the 5 hour mark form most cities in India.

For someone flying from MAA/CCU/BLR/COK to say Europe or Far East, it is more convenient to change flights in DXB/SIN/BKK/HKG than spend 2-3 hours flying to DEL/BOM, run the gauntlet of transiting through airports that aren't the most transit friendly, and then carry on to their onward destination.

Limited connectivity at destinations certainly doesn't help either, when the carriers connecting through the aforementioned hubs have an option of delivering you much closer to your intended destination in your destination country, with a same one-stop journey.

Would you rather fly MAA-DEL-JFK-ORD or fly MAA-HKG-ORD ?
Why would you ever fly MAA-DEL-JFK-ORD when you could fly MAA-DEL-ORD?

But yes, the way they are building their international network makes little sense - on that front, 9W have done a much better job. When I made the original comments about strategy, I was focusing on the domestic market...

Originally Posted by SQ421
2.
Transiting in India can be a royal pain in the proverbial. There, I said it.
I don't know anyone who disagrees with you... transiting in India is no fun. AI has actually done what I'd call an impressive job with the way they facilitate connections, especially at DEL, but the airports of India aren't built for connections, and that shows.
Originally Posted by SQ421
Sure the new DEL airport gets good reviews, but transiting from International to Domestic (or vice versa) is not a welcome experience at the best of the times. Not many people want to deal with the chaotic experience of transferring between the domestic and international terminals (which are separate at BOM and DEL)
DEL T3 has fixed a lot of that... I avoid domestic-international connections at BOM like the plague though - it's truly a horrible experience.
Originally Posted by SQ421
and would much rather connect outside the country and fly direct to their destination.
Agreed
Originally Posted by SQ421

If you had to spend 4 hours in transit, would you rather spend them at BOM, or spend them at SIN/HKG/DXB where transit is infinitely more pleasurable, and fly directly to your destination?
I don't actually mind connecting at DEL T3 - it's a better experience than FRA/CDG, simply because it's less crowded.
Originally Posted by SQ421
9W actually got this right to a great degree by using BRU as a scissor hub in Europe to connect its feeder flights from BOM/MAA/DEL to flights bound for JFK/EWR/YYZ
Agreed. This fantasy that the GoI seems to have about flying nonstop to far corners of the world just isn't profitable. I'd say that AI's route network was better off when they had mini-hubs in Europe.

Originally Posted by SQ421
For a while now, AI has been toying with the idea of a direct flight to Melbourne, Australia (MEL). For the life of me I can not fathom what it stands to gain by having a once daily flight flying such a long, thin and seasonal route. The flight will be of next to no use to anyone who's flying from outside of MEL and who's destination is any place outside the DEL catchment area. But, AI wants to do it.

Again, a better way would be to emulate 9W and fly to one of the Asian hubs from multiple Indian airports and feed the passengers onto another that flies to Australia. 9W codeshares with QF between SIN and India and SIN and Australia, and QF's recent pullout form India altogether seems to indicate that the codeshare strategy is working fine for the market it wishes to serve.
Agreed - AI has a "partner" in SQ - perhaps they should try actually feeding each other
Originally Posted by SQ421
These three are the big "strategy" points that come to mind, and would be great to dissect and fix. Then ofcourse there's the usual suspects of reliability, service recovery, irrops, and what have you.
I agree. If AI wants to turn around, there is no doubt that these will need to be fixed.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 12:41 am
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
On the other hand, I would call what 9W did with S2 innovative. Keeping a completely separate airline under the same corporate umbrella, which can keep its own costs down but still enhance connectivity is an excellent idea. However, they made a bit of a hash of that idea as well - S2's costs are too high compared to 6E's or SG's... But the idea was a good one.
Jet had wanted to combine the 2 carriers but it is having to keep them separate for regulatory reasons. IIRC correctly, the delays were also due to the tax liability 9w picked up from sahara when they acquired the airline, which then went under litigation

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle1029226.ece

However, now with too many Jet brands floating around, they are combining Jet Konnect into Jetlite and will hold 2 licenses for 2 set of ops under one group holding company.

Last edited by A2A; Mar 13, 2012 at 12:44 am Reason: bad html
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 12:48 am
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Why would you ever fly MAA-DEL-JFK-ORD when you could fly MAA-DEL-ORD?
I didn't realize AI flies DEL-ORD but the point remains. Who'd fly MAA-DEL-ORD/JFK-SFO/LAX when they can fly MAA-HKG-SFO/LAX with a one stop flight.

Or, even with the MAA-ORD routing, more people would prefer to take a slightly longer flight to HKG and transit there (which is a much more friendly experience), than transit via DEL.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 12:49 am
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Originally Posted by A2A
Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
On the other hand, I would call what 9W did with S2 innovative. Keeping a completely separate airline under the same corporate umbrella, which can keep its own costs down but still enhance connectivity is an excellent idea. However, they made a bit of a hash of that idea as well - S2's costs are too high compared to 6E's or SG's... But the idea was a good one.
Jet had wanted to combine the 2 carriers but it is having to keep them separate for regulatory reasons. IIRC correctly, the delays were also due to the tax liability 9w picked up from sahara when they acquired the airline, which then went under litigation

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle1029226.ece

However, now with too many Jet brands floating around, they are combining Jet Konnect into Jetlite and will hold 2 licenses for 2 set of ops under one group holding company.
That's good. Even IT realized the problem that IT Red was causing, and they tried (far too late) to fold it into IT (FSC).

If 9W manages to have 2 distinct brands - 9W (FSC) and S2 (LCC), I think they would be in a good place... However, they also need to make sure that S2's cost base is in line with its LCC competition... Assuming they manage to do that, I think that this strategy could be successful... ^ Of course, it's all about implementation.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 12:51 am
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Originally Posted by SQ421
I didn't realize AI flies DEL-ORD but the point remains. Who'd fly MAA-DEL-ORD/JFK-SFO/LAX when they can fly MAA-HKG-SFO/LAX with a one stop flight.

Or, even with the MAA-ORD routing, more people would prefer to take a slightly longer flight to HKG and transit there (which is a much more friendly experience), than transit via DEL.
Transit via DEL isn't as poor of an experience now compared to years past... I don't think that HKG would be significantly more friendly of a transit experience than DEL, especially since DEL's connections are perfectly timed while HKG usually requires quite a bit of sitting around... And T3 is fantastic - I didn't think that AAI was capable of such a thing..
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 12:58 am
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Transit via DEL isn't as poor of an experience now compared to years past... I don't think that HKG would be significantly more friendly of a transit experience than DEL, especially since DEL's connections are perfectly timed while HKG usually requires quite a bit of sitting around... And T3 is fantastic - I didn't think that AAI was capable of such a thing..
Yes, but transiting in DEL requires flying AI, and I don't even need a straw poll to prove to you that more people would rather the combination of CX + transit in HKG, than AI + transit in DEL

One is a true "fantastic" carrier with proven levels of service recovery. The other is a relic of the socialist era who's reliability can not be extrapolated from a HYD-DEL flight.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 1:05 am
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Originally Posted by SQ421
Yes, but transiting in DEL requires flying AI, and I don't even need a straw poll to prove to you that more people would rather the combination of CX + transit in HKG, than AI + transit in DEL
Probably *shrug*
Originally Posted by SQ421
One is a true "fantastic" carrier with proven levels of service recovery.
I've heard the same. I'd love to try out CX sometime - sounds like a fantastic carrier...

Originally Posted by SQ421
The other is a relic of the socialist era who's reliability can not be extrapolated from a HYD-DEL flight.
I agree that it is a relic of a socialist era. I disagree that the reliability cannot be extrapolated from a HYD-DEL flight - I've flown AI 126 (ORD-DEL-HYD) on the DEL-HYD sector about once a month for the last few months. In 6 times, it has been delayed or cancelled 0 times. If the reliability in ORD was poor, it would be pretty obvious in DEL...

AI 126 leaves DEL in a bank which also has all the other USA/Canada flights. I haven't seen a delay or cancellation posted on any of them either when I've flown through DEL...

While I know that AI can be a nightmare when IRROPS hit, the amount of IRROPS that AI faces is overestimated by most in my experience. It had a respectable 80% on-time record last month...
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 1:10 am
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Lets add pricing to the mix.

For random dates next month, on DEL-ORD, the following airlines are cheaper than AI

Air Canada
KLM
Swiss
Air France
British Airways
Lufthansa
Turkish Airlines
Cathay Pacific

For the same dates, between DEL-JFK, the following airlines are cheaper than AI
KLM
Air France
Etihad
Qatar
Virgin Atlantic
Swiss
Austrian
British Airways
Lufthansa
Turkish
Cathay Pacific
Jet Airways

Not many would pay more to fly AI over any of these airlines.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 1:17 am
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
I agree that it is a relic of a socialist era. I disagree that the reliability cannot be extrapolated from a HYD-DEL flight - I've flown AI 126 (ORD-DEL-HYD) on the DEL-HYD sector about once a month for the last few months. In 6 times, it has been delayed or cancelled 0 times. If the reliability in ORD was poor, it would be pretty obvious in DEL...
You are extrapolating the reliability of the entire network based on one domestic segment of an international flight. High school level statistics and probability should teach you how incorrect and off the mark that extrapolation is, based on your sample size.

BTW, AI127 is delayed an average 101 minutes between 1 Jan and 29 Feb this year - http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...19F2.web1:8009

Here are the comparable stats for BOM-EWR in the same period.
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...19F2.web1:8009
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 1:37 am
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
That's good. Even IT realized the problem that IT Red was causing, and they tried (far too late) to fold it into IT (FSC).

If 9W manages to have 2 distinct brands - 9W (FSC) and S2 (LCC), I think they would be in a good place... However, they also need to make sure that S2's cost base is in line with its LCC competition... Assuming they manage to do that, I think that this strategy could be successful... ^ Of course, it's all about implementation.
you missed the point. the point was that Jet Airways did not do something innovative with keeping the brands separate. It was not by design, but because of legal and regulatory issues at the time the buyout happened.
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