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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 6:14 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Not sure exactly what time fog tends to come out...

Keyser, would there be a significant difference in amount of fog between 00:55 and 2:25 AM? Enough that the 00:55 flight is usually on time, but the 2:25 flight is often delayed?
Fog in Delhi, from memory, tends to build up closer to sunrise and stick around till mid morning if things are that worse. Caused with a combination of warmer air (closer to sunrise) meeting the cold land.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 6:18 am
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Originally Posted by SQ421
Fog in Delhi, from memory, tends to build up closer to sunrise and stick around till mid morning if things are that worse. Caused with a combination of warmer air (closer to sunrise) meeting the cold land.
I don't know about fog in DEL, but the other day I was trying to pull an all-nighter mugging for an important exam... Around 3 AMish, I decided to go for a run to get some blood flowing. To my shock, I could barely see 5 feet ahead of me... I didn't know that HYD deals with fog too.. Or maybe it was smog By 6 AM, fog was gone.

Also, not sure how AI manages to get their flights out an 100 minutes late - that's around 4:30 AM, which I would think would be the peak fog period...
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 6:50 am
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Originally Posted by SQ421
AA 293 that departs an hour earlier seems to manage 91% on time rating on the same route.
Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Not sure exactly what time fog tends to come out...

Keyser, would there be a significant difference in amount of fog between 00:55 and 2:25 AM? Enough that the 00:55 flight is usually on time, but the 2:25 flight is often delayed?
in my experience the fog seems to be at its worst between 3am-7am so it is possible that the 2:25am flight could be hit by fog while the 00:55am flight would not be....but still, there should not be such a vast difference in on time percentage....
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 7:11 am
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Originally Posted by Keyser
in my experience the fog seems to be at its worst between 3am-7am so it is possible that the 2:25am flight could be hit by fog while the 00:55am flight would not be....but still, there should not be such a vast difference in on time percentage....
Yeah, a 90% difference in ontime record is absolutely massive.. And weirdly, AI manages to get the plane back from ORD on time 80% of the time... I just don't get it...
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 7:12 am
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Originally Posted by Keyser
that's extremely surprising....i would have expected ai to be cheaper than most (if not all) of the above....
Could AI be more expensive on DEL-ORD since it flies that route non-stop? Or is it just AI adopting a poor pricing strategy?
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 7:14 am
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Originally Posted by hyderago
Could AI be more expensive on DEL-ORD since it flies that route non-stop? Or is it just AI adopting a poor pricing strategy?
That's precisely why they are the most expensive. They have a monopoly on the nonstop route - it would be poor revenue management to not charge more than airlines which are selling connecting itineraries.

If you look at connections, AI is usually far and away the cheapest. For example BOS-ORD(-DEL)-HYD, or PVD-ORD(-DEL)-HYD are much cheaper than the competition...

If they weren't the cheapest, they wouldn't be able to fill their planes... AI has a serious image problem, and its yields reflect that.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 9:40 am
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Well, it would also be poor revenue management to charge so much more than your competitors when you have serious issues (like image, on-time %, etc) and can't fill up your seats even when your prices are lower than your competitors.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 9:46 am
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Originally Posted by hyderago
Well, it would also be poor revenue management to charge so much more than your competitors when you have serious issues (like image, on-time %, etc) and can't fill up your seats even when your prices are lower than your competitors.
Well, on this particular route, AI can command a premium over everyone else - they have a monopoly on the nonstop. That means that anybody who is time-sensitive and wants to get to their destination fastest is willing to pay more for the ticket. (whether delays mean that this is the truth or not is another story ).

Airline revenue management is very interesting. Costs are relatively stable - it will cost a similar amount to operate the airplane full or empty. That means that airlines just want to maximize the revenue they get from the flight. Charging a premium on a nonstop is one way to increase revenue.. If AI is managing to sell tickets (and I assume they are because the price hasn't dropped), then they should keep the higher price compared to competitors.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 9:48 am
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Also, going back to the original branding mess between 9W and 9Wk.. Here's an interesting op-ed written from the passengers point of view, over 2.5 years ago...

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle1083856.ece

I have always been a great admirer of Jet Airways. I have had nothing but praise for this company that to me and several others epitomises world-class service. I have featured the brand in my writings and talked about it in seminars. When journalists ask me plaintively whether any Indian brand can be a force globally I speak with conviction about Infosys and Jet. Nor have I been alone or unique in this, as anyone who has travelled by the airline usually compares it favourably with other international airlines that they have travelled by. Jet stands for smart service delivered courteously time after time without being in-your-face.

I continue to be a frequent flier of the airline and remember fondly their mailer Now we see you, now we dont sent to my friend who had stopped travelling by that airline temporarily. I am an admirer too of the way the airline has trained its staff to constantly address me by name and get my complex and maybe even long-winded South Indian name right. In startling contrast to what a retail outlet did for several years - it sent me over 70 mailers each and every one of which was addressed to Sridhar Raitanujam perhaps quietly addressing my great preference for curd or raita, a form it frequently takes in India. But to return to Jet, I must confess that I am getting increasingly disenchanted with the brand, particularly in recent times.

Tough times call for tough actions. Do they?

In my opinion, Jets troubles began when it took over Sahara, which later became Jetlite. Historically airlines that take over low-cost airlines find the ride bumpy.

We have global examples that bear testimony to this theory. The attitude of the no-frills airline to customers and services is very different from the regular airlines own stated philosophy of service. It could be argued that the customer too knows what she is getting into when she ventures to travel by a no-frills airline.

In the heyday of Air Deccan, the customer braced herself for the 20-meter dash from the bus to the plane if she wanted a decent seat. She also hoped that she would not get thirsty as she knew she had to pay for the water and several of her savvier co-passengers came into the plane armed with packets of greasy food, leaving a healthy aroma in the plane which continued on to the next flight. But the regular airlines were different.

They plied the passenger with food at least, if not with drink, unlike the Damania of old, where guys would make a beeline for the bar at 6.30 a.m.! Those were the days and naively we thought they would never end, but unfortunately they did.

The problem with Jet now is that I do not know what to expect. The biggest problem seems to be that there are hardly any Jet Airways flights to travel by today or maybe I am not travelling at the times and to the places they want me to. I used to have a convenient flight out of Bangalore leaving at 7 a.m. which would enable me to do a full days work at Mumbai and return by a flight which left Mumbai at 8.10 p.m.

I would land at Bengaluru International Airport (what a grandiose name for such a teeny-weeny thing) at 9.30 p. m. Of course, I would reach home after 11.30 p.m. but then those are the advantages of having an airport that is closer to Hyderabad than Bangalore! I have realised to my chagrin that this 7 a.m. flight has become a Jet Konnect flight which used to be Jetlite or Sahara (how confusing can it get).

Nor does the confusion stop there. I get a message even earlier saying that I have to buy breakfast and will not be allowed to use the lounge at the airport. In contrast when I do travel by Kingfisher Red (which is Air Deccan), I get to use the lounge where I normally stuff myself and also get complimentary snacks (this will almost certainly take that brand further into the red but that is another story).

I am not for one instant suggesting that the way to the consumers heart is through his stomach, but it seems to help. But more seriously, I do know that brands have to economise in tough times such as these and given the fact that most airline brands are in the red, they must cut corners.

But whilst they are looking at ways of economising are they losing out on the very essence of the brand?

When they have two airlines trying to address differing market needs are they sending out conflicting signals to the market? In short what is the Jet brand today and how is the Jet Konnect brand different other than the fact that you have to buy your food? I am sure the company knows the difference between these two and I do hope they know what they are doing. It did not seem like a cheap airline and it did not seem vastly different from Jet, other than the food bit.

Company policy and all that jazz

I am a very poor planner of my time, so I usually end up rescheduling flights, taking earlier flights out of cities or taking later flights out. Of course, aiding and abetting my confusion is the fact that my clients run my life and a lot of their confusion rubs off on me. (I am safe because my clients do not read what I write.)

Today thanks to the tough times that we live in, Jet Airways has started to charge for advancement as well. I always remember that one used to be penalised only for postponements.

Recently the same thing happened when I was trying to return earlier from Chennai. I wanted to take the earlier flight as usual. As the earlier flight was a Jet konnect flight I was informed that I would be charged both for cancellation and booking by the company, the net result being I had to pay Rs 1,500 more in addition to the Rs 3,300 that I was paying for the ticket.

I thought it was ridiculous and was surprised to note that a cancellation would amount to Rs 250 only. So what did I do? I cancelled my Jet Airways ticket and returned by Kingfisher. So much for customer loyalty and customer retention programmes! I kept arguing with the people on the phone and they kept saying company policy.

When will brands realise that the enemy of customer service is the term company policy? And outsourcing means the entire problem of the service provider comes back to the brand.

I know that a sample size of one is not serious enough to warrant a hue and cry. But it is also better for a service provider to overreact to a problem rather than brush it under the carpet. It is true that times are tough. It is also true that airlines have probably been hit harder by the current situation than certain other categories.

But Jet is no ordinary brand, in my view, at least. It has the capability of holding aloft the banner of service brands in this country and across the world. It needs to do some serious soul-searching and quickly understand from its consumers as to what they think of the brand now. Are they still using it? Are they quietly suffering? For there are many others who may quietly walk away into the sunset and that could hurt the brand even more.

I am not sure if these problems are too serious or I am overreacting to them. But then I am a consumer who is demanding, always comparing, creating problems and looking for their solution.

I also know that when the company responds to my problems and retrieves the situation I will be happy. Sadly I am promiscuous too and the step from being an ardent fan to a harsh critic could be a swift one, in my case, at least. My overriding regret, though, is for the brand which is letting the times get to it and runs the risk of losing its very essence. Did you have a similar experience? Then tell me about it.

P.S: I just received a call from Jet Airways saying that my flight has been rescheduled and I have to leave 90 minutes earlier!
(Ramanujam Sridhar is CEO, brand-comm, and the author of Googly - Branding on Indian Turf.)


(This article was published in the Business Line print edition dated September 3, 2009)
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 9:53 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
If AI is managing to sell tickets (and I assume they are because the price hasn't dropped), then they should keep the higher price compared to competitors.
Ah, but that's a big if. My instinct tells me that if tickets are not being sold, the government will be slow to react and so prices will not be lowered for a while.

I only have a hunch about this, no solid data. If you have anything information on how AI's passenger loads compare with those of its competitors, I'd be interested in seeing them.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 9:57 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Also, going back to the original branding mess between 9W and 9Wk.. Here's an interesting op-ed written from the passengers point of view, over 2.5 years ago...
"Nor does the confusion stop there. I get a message even earlier saying that I have to buy breakfast and will not be allowed to use the lounge at the airport. In contrast when I do travel by Kingfisher Red (which is Air Deccan), I get to use the lounge where I normally stuff myself and also get complimentary snacks (this will almost certainly take that brand further into the red but that is another story)."
Well that explains why 9W is still in business today and IT is teetering on the edge.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 10:05 am
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Originally Posted by hyderago
Ah, but that's a big if. My instinct tells me that if tickets are not being sold, the government will be slow to react and so prices will not be lowered for a while.
Considering that AI probably has too many people employed in its revenue management department, this would surprise me. The middle management runs AI like any other airline.
Originally Posted by hyderago
I only have a hunch about this, no solid data. If you have anything information on how AI's passenger loads compare with those of its competitors, I'd be interested in seeing them.
I've got that data for USA based carriers (Bureau of Transportation Statistics posts it online), but sadly no data for India... I agree, it would be very interesting to see... I'm looking...

Originally Posted by hyderago
Well that explains why 9W is still in business today and IT is teetering on the edge.
Right, exactly. What kind of LCC can provide those kinds of things? Drives up costs like crazy. And this is one obvious example of what I'm talking about when I say VJM's ego is in the way
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 6:01 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Yeah, a 90% difference in ontime record is absolutely massive.. And weirdly, AI manages to get the plane back from ORD on time 80% of the time... I just don't get it...
Not sure how airports charge airlines for their time spent on ground but maybe it is in AI's best fiscal interests to spend only the bare minimum required time on ground at ORD.

Besides, if AA can get the DEL-ORD flight on time and AI can't despite scheduling their departures 90 mins apart, then perhaps AI should look at moving its departure time to leave before the fog sets in. Surely that is not an issue at its main hub.

Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Considering that AI probably has too many people employed in its revenue management department, this would surprise me. The middle management runs AI like any other airline.
Merely employing people doesn't mean the revenue management department actually is good at its job. If Staff:Aircraft was the benchmark, AI would be the best airline in the world. Please bear in mind this is the same management that thinks the best way to correct that ratio is to buy more aircraft, not to shed staff!


Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Right, exactly. What kind of LCC can provide those kinds of things? Drives up costs like crazy. And this is one obvious example of what I'm talking about when I say VJM's ego is in the way
No, that would be extremely sensible business decision to extend the benefits that are available to a passenger owing to their status with the airline, if the airline only flies its low cost subsidiary on a particular route. I'd be pissed too if I had lounge access owing to my status, flew a particular airline for that benefit, and was suddenly told that my regular route was being flown by a low cost arm of that airline and so I won't have lounge access.

Besides, this is nothing new, QANTAS does it with Jetstart services too.

You are really gonna have to look hard to find examples of VJM's ego getting in the way of running the airline, especially as in one of the other threads, I've outlined 4 things that AI and KF have in common yet you keep praising them as AI's strategy while KF's get slammed for being mistakes.

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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 8:58 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by PVDtoDEL
Considering that AI probably has too many people employed in its revenue management department, this would surprise me. The middle management runs AI like any other airline.
Clearly the management at AI does not do its job like any other airline since AI has employed a different strategy than 9W and IT. I thought this was your argument all along.
Also, with all due respect to IAS officers and babus, I don't think that they are the most qualified to run an airline. I just don't believe that they can run an airline as efficiently as a seasoned aviation professional.
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Old Mar 13, 2012 | 8:59 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by SQ421
Not sure how airports charge airlines for their time spent on ground but maybe it is in AI's best fiscal interests to spend only the bare minimum required time on ground at ORD.
That's an interesting thought. But my guess is that AI is charged for its scheduled time on the ground at ORD. So arriving late will not save it money.
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