Multiple Bookings Destroying FT Spirit
Aug 31, 2006, 8:55 am
#16
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It is probably easier for a vendor to not honor a rate or mistake that only a few (in relative terms few could still be a lot of people) make vs. when a lot (again in relative terms) of people make reservations. When one person or a few people scream that a mistake is not being honored, no one in the forest will hear them, but if a lot of people book a mistake and the whole forest screems, then it can't be helped but to be heard therefore making it harder for the vendor to cancel or not honor the deal.
I'm thinking that the more people book, the more likely some piece of a mistake will be honored.
I'm thinking that the more people book, the more likely some piece of a mistake will be honored.
Aug 31, 2006, 9:06 am
#17
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse
I'm thinking that the more people book, the more likely some piece of a mistake will be honored.
The more people that book, the more publicity it recieves. You're "normal" (i.e. non-FT'er) person is often suprised that hotels/airlines/car rental companies, etc, honor the deals than not. At least that's the reaction when I tell people about some of the great deals I've jumped on.
Which is more important? Money in the bank or embarrassment? Methinks its money in the bank.
Aug 31, 2006, 10:44 am
#18
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methinks bad press could cause more problems or loss of revenue than the mistakes are costing the hotels.
Seriously, as much as we can book, it isn't diddly squat compared to a major chains overall bookings. Yet if one major paper like the USA today or WSJ runs with a story and it chooses to present the story in such a fashion that rips the hotel chain, then all that advertising that the hotel has done, the good name recognition etc, will be set back. In addition, if the press is bad enough, the hotel needs to spend more on advertising to try to offset the bad press etc. After the press (papers) runs with it, maybe one of the tv news magazines or a CNN spot will run on the way that the hotel stiffed the consumer (assuming that this is the position that is taken by the press).. more costly damage. Thats why I think that its cheaper for them to honor the mistake than fight it.
Seriously, as much as we can book, it isn't diddly squat compared to a major chains overall bookings. Yet if one major paper like the USA today or WSJ runs with a story and it chooses to present the story in such a fashion that rips the hotel chain, then all that advertising that the hotel has done, the good name recognition etc, will be set back. In addition, if the press is bad enough, the hotel needs to spend more on advertising to try to offset the bad press etc. After the press (papers) runs with it, maybe one of the tv news magazines or a CNN spot will run on the way that the hotel stiffed the consumer (assuming that this is the position that is taken by the press).. more costly damage. Thats why I think that its cheaper for them to honor the mistake than fight it.
Originally Posted by bhatnasx
Alternatively, the more people that book, the more lost revenue, the less likely they'll be to honor the deal.
The more people that book, the more publicity it recieves. You're "normal" (i.e. non-FT'er) person is often suprised that hotels/airlines/car rental companies, etc, honor the deals than not. At least that's the reaction when I tell people about some of the great deals I've jumped on.
Which is more important? Money in the bank or embarrassment? Methinks its money in the bank.
The more people that book, the more publicity it recieves. You're "normal" (i.e. non-FT'er) person is often suprised that hotels/airlines/car rental companies, etc, honor the deals than not. At least that's the reaction when I tell people about some of the great deals I've jumped on.
Which is more important? Money in the bank or embarrassment? Methinks its money in the bank.
Aug 31, 2006, 10:56 am
#19
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Agreed, TH - I see your point. But one thing to remember is how the hotel industry works. I don't know what the exact percentages are, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of hotels out there are franchises & even though they bear the Hilton, Starwood, Marriott, Hyatt, InterContinental name & flags, they are often times independentally owned & operated.
Also, sadly, the more & more hotels don't honor these kinds of deals, the more & more it will become an industry standard to not honor these deals. Will it make a difference in the short term? Maybe. If a Hilton hotel doesn't honor its rate mistake (which is obviously a mistake), will a Hilton Diamond vow to never stay with Hilton again for the rest of their lives & actually follow through with it? Probably not. If a Marriott or Starwood hotel doesn't honor its rate mistake, will a Marriott or SPG Platinum vow to never stay there again for the rest of their lives & actually follow through with it? Probably not. If a guest is a multi-year elite with a hotel, there's most likely a reason for that & the good most likely outweighs the bad.
For smaller chains, such as the La Quinta Resort - would negative press really make too much of a difference in the long run? Most likely not, IMHO.
Just my 2 cents...
That said - I still find it disappointing when hotels publish a rate, accept bookings, sometimes take pre-payment, send confirmations, and then deny that its a valid booking.
Also, sadly, the more & more hotels don't honor these kinds of deals, the more & more it will become an industry standard to not honor these deals. Will it make a difference in the short term? Maybe. If a Hilton hotel doesn't honor its rate mistake (which is obviously a mistake), will a Hilton Diamond vow to never stay with Hilton again for the rest of their lives & actually follow through with it? Probably not. If a Marriott or Starwood hotel doesn't honor its rate mistake, will a Marriott or SPG Platinum vow to never stay there again for the rest of their lives & actually follow through with it? Probably not. If a guest is a multi-year elite with a hotel, there's most likely a reason for that & the good most likely outweighs the bad.
For smaller chains, such as the La Quinta Resort - would negative press really make too much of a difference in the long run? Most likely not, IMHO.
Just my 2 cents...
That said - I still find it disappointing when hotels publish a rate, accept bookings, sometimes take pre-payment, send confirmations, and then deny that its a valid booking.
Aug 31, 2006, 11:25 am
#20
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Originally Posted by J0HN
In true Flyertalk fashion... it is not enough to get a suite for $10, one must get the Presidential suite for $15. Someone sees a room for $5, but wait a club room is $7.
In case anyone wonders why FTers don't arouse more public sympathy, or emerge as a more potent and sympathetic political force, this behavior goes a long way toward explaining it. I understand the excitement of jumping on a booking engine error. But there is something deeply unattractive-looking about swarms of opportunistic FTers booking out dozens of dozens of rooms at obvious error rates, then rattling various sabers and/or threatening legal action if anything's not honored.
Would a hotel really want such people as regular customers? Would YOU, in your business, want such people as customers if they were to jump on an honest, temporary, mistake in your pricing and squeeze so hard?
Given the rapacious, uncompromising, overreaching behavior I see re: mistake rates, there are many FTers I would not care to have as customers. Real or not, the I deserve everything on a stick for $10 a night because that was the offer and otherwise I'm suing line is perceived as real -- and not terribly attractive. I think it makes us look spoiled and unreasaonble and hurts our image as a political bloc.
Aug 31, 2006, 2:57 pm
#21
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The problem that I have with the current system (post a mistaken rate, accept reservations, bill customer credit cards, send out written confirmations, then a month later, cancel the reservation and refund the money) is that it removes from the provider any necessity to fix an obviously broken system. The same provider can (and has) gone through this cycle over and over again, without doing anything to correct an obvious problem. Why should they spend their money to correct their problem, when they can stick their customers with the downside of their mistake?
Some low rates are obvious mistakes, some low rates are obviously genuine, but a lot fall into a grey area, where we don't really know whether this is a good rate being offered intentionally by the supplier because of factors in their business model that we are unaware of or are mistakes. It makes us hesitant to purchase these, as we do not want to find ourselves without accommodations when we need them at the last minute.
This is particularly true of third party booking engines. It is not like a travel agent in your town, where you could drop by and see them if you had a problem. They have people somewhere, but you can't see them. All you have is faith in the integrity of their website - and integrity includes standing behind everything on their site. If we have to start guessing which quotes on their site they really mean, and which ones are "just kidding", we will stop using them. It is essential for the future existence of third party booking engines, IMO, that they settle with their suppliers who is responsible for the correctness of information, and that that party be required to bear the costs of any mistakes. If that were to happen, the responsible party would quickly take the few simple steps that are required to prevent this type of mistake.
Some low rates are obvious mistakes, some low rates are obviously genuine, but a lot fall into a grey area, where we don't really know whether this is a good rate being offered intentionally by the supplier because of factors in their business model that we are unaware of or are mistakes. It makes us hesitant to purchase these, as we do not want to find ourselves without accommodations when we need them at the last minute.
This is particularly true of third party booking engines. It is not like a travel agent in your town, where you could drop by and see them if you had a problem. They have people somewhere, but you can't see them. All you have is faith in the integrity of their website - and integrity includes standing behind everything on their site. If we have to start guessing which quotes on their site they really mean, and which ones are "just kidding", we will stop using them. It is essential for the future existence of third party booking engines, IMO, that they settle with their suppliers who is responsible for the correctness of information, and that that party be required to bear the costs of any mistakes. If that were to happen, the responsible party would quickly take the few simple steps that are required to prevent this type of mistake.
Aug 31, 2006, 5:45 pm
#22
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Real or not, the I deserve everything on a stick for $10 a night because that was the offer and otherwise I'm suing line is perceived as real -- and not terribly attractive. I think it makes us look spoiled and unreasaonble and hurts our image as a political bloc.
Aug 31, 2006, 9:08 pm
#23
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Originally Posted by ingy
The behavior of some members (or quasi members at best) is destroying this spirit by making MULTIPLE BOOKINGS on hotel mistake rates.
If you book it for two months and you are intended to stay there I don't have any problems with that.
I didn't jump on the La Quinta because I don't like spending weekends in Palm Springs area and during the week the hotel rates are really low regardless of the season. Last time I was upgraded to a Presidential Suite at the Hilton on rate of around $90.
Sep 1, 2006, 12:30 am
#24
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Originally Posted by ingy
If there is any question about who I'm speaking too, let me be clear: If you are making MULTIPLE BOOKINGS, I am speaking to YOU.
."
."
The first thing I though when I read this was
is this person a school teacher
I mean
I AM SPEAKING TO YOU!
are you the booking police?
Once a fab rate is posted on the internet anyone can get hold of it!
if the OP to the fab rate didnt want it utilised they wouldnt post.
Also the Conrad had the rate on the site right up till 9-10pm monday BKK time.
If Hilton was more proactive on this site they might have averted a lot of bookings(I mean if that rate had been an spg rate they would have been right on to it!)so I dont feel that there is any problem with anyone who booked whilst the offer was still available.
Many people posted on sunday that they had called the hotel.
Surely someone at that hotel would have told management long before monday night 9pm.
good luck to all that actually take advantage of the bookings.
enjoy.
Sep 1, 2006, 1:15 am
#25
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its a problem
hey tinky,
its surely a problem , maybe not for us, but indeed for the hotel.
my friend has gotten a call and he was told that german centurion card holders alone booked a total of 600 nights.....
so lets say everybody had booked two bookings with each 4 nights 2 x 4= 8.
600:8 = 72 persons who booked alone over the centurion portal in germany.
this means that at least two rooms suites are occupied through this channel alone for around one year!. i can imagine that the number through priceline/ cheaphotels/other amex/hilton will exceed 3000 nights.
sure the hotel might not find a buyer for these suites each day, but the question is, if booking too many reservations and too long reservations wont destroy it for us all in the future.
for the hotel, what does it mean. anybody did work for a hotel company and can tell us what the hotel will do now?
i can imagine that a company rate for employees etc. might be around this 16usd rate we are paying. a friend of mine works for kempiinski and he got a real huge suite for 25euro at the BERLIN Adlon , so i think the hotel can life with that amount.
if they are not able to sell the suites, the suites are available anyway, so even 16usd will be addet to their revenue. if they could find a buyer at the 650usd , this might be a huge loss for them.
i think we can imagine what impact we have on FT. if one posts a mistake, there are thousands of booking, and in the case of the osaka debacel i am sure that some people did book the whole year and that this was the reason that the hotel couldnt even try to honor more bookings.
but on the other hand, wouldnt a clever manager make the best out of this situation?
i am sure that we all have enough money to use the hotel cars for airport pickup, try to eat in the hotel, use the minibar instead of buying drinks at the supermarket etc. .
for myself, i think i want to make the hotel feel that it was worth while to honor the rate.
i will take all my clothers in a big case and let the hotel clean all.
i will order the hotel cars for pickup, anybody know which kind of limosines the bkk conrad has?
i will buy 10x the conrad CD, ( i love the cd and it is a good present anyway
etc. etc.
so i hope that all of you guys will do the same, and not act like an el cheapo and come into the hotel, spent 16usd and leave . sure you can do that, but why not GIVE BACK a BIT?
why? because this is an exceptional hotel and how fast and how nice they did act , they deserve our respect.
what about making a chartlist on FT , where we can vote for the best deals we have gotten here? something like the freddy of mistaken fares/deals which were honored
its surely a problem , maybe not for us, but indeed for the hotel.
my friend has gotten a call and he was told that german centurion card holders alone booked a total of 600 nights.....
so lets say everybody had booked two bookings with each 4 nights 2 x 4= 8.
600:8 = 72 persons who booked alone over the centurion portal in germany.
this means that at least two rooms suites are occupied through this channel alone for around one year!. i can imagine that the number through priceline/ cheaphotels/other amex/hilton will exceed 3000 nights.
sure the hotel might not find a buyer for these suites each day, but the question is, if booking too many reservations and too long reservations wont destroy it for us all in the future.
for the hotel, what does it mean. anybody did work for a hotel company and can tell us what the hotel will do now?
i can imagine that a company rate for employees etc. might be around this 16usd rate we are paying. a friend of mine works for kempiinski and he got a real huge suite for 25euro at the BERLIN Adlon , so i think the hotel can life with that amount.
if they are not able to sell the suites, the suites are available anyway, so even 16usd will be addet to their revenue. if they could find a buyer at the 650usd , this might be a huge loss for them.
i think we can imagine what impact we have on FT. if one posts a mistake, there are thousands of booking, and in the case of the osaka debacel i am sure that some people did book the whole year and that this was the reason that the hotel couldnt even try to honor more bookings.
but on the other hand, wouldnt a clever manager make the best out of this situation?
i am sure that we all have enough money to use the hotel cars for airport pickup, try to eat in the hotel, use the minibar instead of buying drinks at the supermarket etc. .
for myself, i think i want to make the hotel feel that it was worth while to honor the rate.
i will take all my clothers in a big case and let the hotel clean all.
i will order the hotel cars for pickup, anybody know which kind of limosines the bkk conrad has?
i will buy 10x the conrad CD, ( i love the cd and it is a good present anyway
etc. etc.
so i hope that all of you guys will do the same, and not act like an el cheapo and come into the hotel, spent 16usd and leave . sure you can do that, but why not GIVE BACK a BIT?
why? because this is an exceptional hotel and how fast and how nice they did act , they deserve our respect.
what about making a chartlist on FT , where we can vote for the best deals we have gotten here? something like the freddy of mistaken fares/deals which were honored
Sep 1, 2006, 1:23 am
#26
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For probably a year and a bit, since the US $1.86 transcon deal, I've noticed a trend towards gluttony at times here on FT, especially with the hotel deals. It seems it's gone from taking advantage of a deal for your own personal use to grabbing as much as possible. Reasonable and responsible attitudes seem to have gone out the window in the stampede to score a deal some have no intention of using. Maybe it's the influx of thousand of more members brought to these shores by newspaper/TV interviews given by FTers looking to prod an airline/hotel into granting what they feel they are owed. I feared the wider expousure had the potential to change the nature of FT and, to some extent, it has. Of course, I was called all kinds of names for speaking my mind and not embracing the deal oriented new arrivals, but I'm with the OP on this one; mindless greed has tarnished the golden egg.
Case in point: on the TLS FT Do thread in community forum, it was quietly revealed that Accor had a huge deal in TLS, which was an Ibis hotel for EUR 7/night. Rather than grab months at a time, I needed it for two nights only over the time when the get together is scheduled, so booked only those two nights, got a confirmation which I am still holding. The poster who shared the deal, f4free, feared an avalanche of bookings would kill the deal, likely why it never made it to Hotel Deals AFAIK. Could I have grabed months at that price? Maybe. Would my irresponsible actions have lessened the chances of everyone taking advantage of the mistake? Probably.
Of course, that's just MHO and YMMV.
Case in point: on the TLS FT Do thread in community forum, it was quietly revealed that Accor had a huge deal in TLS, which was an Ibis hotel for EUR 7/night. Rather than grab months at a time, I needed it for two nights only over the time when the get together is scheduled, so booked only those two nights, got a confirmation which I am still holding. The poster who shared the deal, f4free, feared an avalanche of bookings would kill the deal, likely why it never made it to Hotel Deals AFAIK. Could I have grabed months at that price? Maybe. Would my irresponsible actions have lessened the chances of everyone taking advantage of the mistake? Probably.
Of course, that's just MHO and YMMV.
Sep 1, 2006, 1:25 am
#27
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Location: Sydney
Posts: 5,769
[QUOTE=i i am sure that we all have enough money to use the hotel cars for airport pickup, try to eat in the hotel, use the minibar instead of buying drinks at the supermarket etc. .
for myself, i think i want to make the hotel feel that it was worth while to honor the rate.
i will take all my clothers in a big case and let the hotel clean all.
i will order the hotel cars for pickup, anybody know which kind of limosines the bkk conrad has?
i will buy 10x the conrad CD, ( i love the cd and it is a good present anyway
etc. etc.
so i hope that all of you guys will do the same, and not act like an el cheapo and come into the hotel, spent 16usd and leave . sure you can do that, but why not GIVE BACK a BIT?
why? because this is an exceptional hotel and how fast and how nice they did act , they deserve our respect.
[/QUOTE]
I absolutely agree with you! ^
I always spend a lot in a hotel when I am on an award as I want to make sure they know I appreciate award night
(and that I am not cheap!!)
And I do hope all the bookers of these rates do use the limos spas etc
But I cant- for the life of me understand how that rate(pres suite) was bookable for 72 hrs!!!
for myself, i think i want to make the hotel feel that it was worth while to honor the rate.
i will take all my clothers in a big case and let the hotel clean all.
i will order the hotel cars for pickup, anybody know which kind of limosines the bkk conrad has?
i will buy 10x the conrad CD, ( i love the cd and it is a good present anyway
etc. etc.
so i hope that all of you guys will do the same, and not act like an el cheapo and come into the hotel, spent 16usd and leave . sure you can do that, but why not GIVE BACK a BIT?
why? because this is an exceptional hotel and how fast and how nice they did act , they deserve our respect.
[/QUOTE]I absolutely agree with you! ^
I always spend a lot in a hotel when I am on an award as I want to make sure they know I appreciate award night
(and that I am not cheap!!)
And I do hope all the bookers of these rates do use the limos spas etc
But I cant- for the life of me understand how that rate(pres suite) was bookable for 72 hrs!!!
Last edited by tinkybelle; Sep 1, 2006 at 1:32 am
Sep 1, 2006, 1:51 am
#28
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yeah
Originally Posted by tinkybelle
I absolutely agree with you! ^
I always spend a lot in a hotel when I am on an award as I want to make sure they know I appreciate award night
(and that I am not cheap!!)
And I do hope all the bookers of these rates do use the limos spas etc
But I cant- for the life of me understand how that rate(pres suite) was bookable for 72 hrs!!!
I always spend a lot in a hotel when I am on an award as I want to make sure they know I appreciate award night
(and that I am not cheap!!)
And I do hope all the bookers of these rates do use the limos spas etc
But I cant- for the life of me understand how that rate(pres suite) was bookable for 72 hrs!!!
tinky this was for the general i didnt adress you personally.
just my opinion that i will use the max . money i can afford for this.
i hope that the people here will try to give back something to the hotel. getting something which costs 2000usd or 650usd for 19/50usd , this is a once i an lifetime dream
.even if you could only affort 100usd a day, than well spent it.
its not about how much you spent, but about the will to spent to show them that we appreciate it.
dp
Sep 1, 2006, 7:08 am
#29
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Originally Posted by derpelikan
tinky this was for the general i didnt adress you personally.
just my opinion that i will use the max . money i can afford for this.
i hope that the people here will try to give back something to the hotel. getting something which costs 2000usd or 650usd for 19/50usd , this is a once i an lifetime dream.
even if you could only affort 100usd a day, than well spent it.
its not about how much you spent, but about the will to spent to show them that we appreciate it.
dp
just my opinion that i will use the max . money i can afford for this.
i hope that the people here will try to give back something to the hotel. getting something which costs 2000usd or 650usd for 19/50usd , this is a once i an lifetime dream
.even if you could only affort 100usd a day, than well spent it.
its not about how much you spent, but about the will to spent to show them that we appreciate it.
dp
Sep 1, 2006, 7:13 am
#30
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Originally Posted by FatManInNYC
If you think it is the right thing to do, then I will visit the spa each of the 5 days I am there and get a massage whether I need one or not. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.