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-   Hilton | Hilton Honors (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hilton-honors-417/)
-   -   Consolidated "Points Devaluation" thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hilton-honors/129148-consolidated-points-devaluation-thread.html)

777 global mile hound Oct 28, 2009 3:47 pm

Started canceling HH reservations today and cutting revenue nights off upcoming Hilton reservations:(
I regret doing this to certain hotels who have been so good to me over the years.
It could end up hurting some of the folks that I care about at the hotels
However I can not subsidize Blackstones mistakes with the bad timing of their purchase of Hilton.
It seems to me they have to find alternative revenue channels rather then canabilize the value proposistion of the program
At the end of the day it looks like its payback time for HH members
Members are picking up the tab for the increased award availability for standard rooms and Blackstones very bad timing with the purchase of Hilton Hotels

If I were running Hilton HHonors I would make a vow to continue honoring the current award chart for all those members who continue to earn Diamond status.It would be an impressive bargaining chip to insure loyalty amongst the most dedicated customers.
Unfortunately I think we are probably dealing with a regime that doesn't understand the drivers of short or long term loyalty.
Just an easier way out to try and reduce/service debt which in their case looks like a bottomless pit.
How do you spell 20 biliion?:eek:

It looks like the bill has finally come in at the expense of HHonors members

Jailer Oct 28, 2009 4:38 pm

But, worryingly, maybe Hilton/Blackstone isn’t so disappointed to lose our “let’s maximize earnings/insist on perks/jump on bonuses/minimize spending FT aficionado attitude” and just is happy to hold onto Joe “Yeah, I think I earn points with Hilton, but I don’t pay too close attention to it.”

I find it hard to believe that these kinds of devaluation decisions aren’t made without some modeling; the question is, “will this devaluation have a greater impact on income than Hilton bean counters predict?”

ahappyelite Oct 28, 2009 4:50 pm

Airlines my tail, its the hotel industry that could use some real oversight
 
Anyone surprised that the hotel industry has the nerve to devalue points in the middle of a recession/depression? This is a totally out of control industry that still continues to charge more than $100 a night at every middle of nowhere hotel even those located in the middle of a filling station. The hotel scam (facilitated- sorry by business travellers who don't usually care if they are being ripped off). There are hefty redemption requirements, usually 2 or 3 hotels in the whole world in their lowest category, and a constant erosion of point value, and plenty of multi star "franchise in name only" dumps.
If anyone thinks that people are making empty threats, I was able to go from 30 nights a year at Marriott to none-I couldn't bear the bait and switch even though it was my employer that was being scammed. Now I no longer travel much and when I do the Red Roof Inn is usually fine.
As a leisure traveller, I have found the airlines to almost always be a great bargain.
The hotel folks remind me of the Sopranos- I won't even start about the double billing, charges I never made, sneaky fees, interent charges at $250 hotels, etec.

GUWonder Oct 28, 2009 8:14 pm


Originally Posted by ahappyelite (Post 12727394)
Anyone surprised that the hotel industry has the nerve to devalue points in the middle of a recession/depression? This is a totally out of control industry that still continues to charge more than $100 a night at every middle of nowhere hotel even those located in the middle of a filling station. The hotel scam (facilitated- sorry by business travellers who don't usually care if they are being ripped off). There are hefty redemption requirements, usually 2 or 3 hotels in the whole world in their lowest category, and a constant erosion of point value, and plenty of multi star "franchise in name only" dumps.
If anyone thinks that people are making empty threats, I was able to go from 30 nights a year at Marriott to none-I couldn't bear the bait and switch even though it was my employer that was being scammed. Now I no longer travel much and when I do the Red Roof Inn is usually fine.
As a leisure traveller, I have found the airlines to almost always be a great bargain.
The hotel folks remind me of the Sopranos- I won't even start about the double billing, charges I never made, sneaky fees, interent charges at $250 hotels, etec.

If you think Hilton is customer-unfriendly like I do, then you should check out what Delta Airlines has done since the start of 2008 to the holders of DL program currency. Hilton management's action in this regard looks almost saint-like relative to what Delta Airlines management has done to devalue DL program currency in this environment of falling demand for air travel services.

GUWonder Oct 28, 2009 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by Jailer (Post 12727340)
But, worryingly, maybe Hilton/Blackstone isn’t so disappointed to lose our “let’s maximize earnings/insist on perks/jump on bonuses/minimize spending FT aficionado attitude” and just is happy to hold onto Joe “Yeah, I think I earn points with Hilton, but I don’t pay too close attention to it.”

I find it hard to believe that these kinds of devaluation decisions aren’t made without some modeling; the question is, “will this devaluation have a greater impact on income than Hilton bean counters predict?”

Hilton management has a good idea about what it's doing with these devaluations. As noted earlier:


Originally Posted by GUWonder
With the economic recovery and the fruits of the economic recovery, Hilton management will again find the validation it seeks in devaluing the program substantially yet again without the consequences resulting in a corporate culture shake-up. Lost customers and revenue numbers arising from this Hilton HHonors devaluation will be well hidden by the lipstick provided by an economic recovery for which Hilton management has no responsibility but the fruits of which Hilton management will claim credit anyway.

They are counting on history repeating itself and they will probably find themselves successful enough even with yet another substantial devaluation of Hilton points.

Hilton is going to continue to do this kind of thing since it's an easy way for Hilton to make the financial numbers look better and doesn't have a history of causing a substantial enough customer revolt to bother Hilton management and get them to change course.

I am just wondering if Blackstone is taking advantage of a provision in US tax policy that has allowed real estate investment trusts to use more current losses to get money from the US Treasury for taxes they paid on profits made even years earlier. [This kind of arrangement is not allowed to most individuals and corporations but it is a designer loophole that REITs -- including hotel REITS -- have exploited so as to get better treatment than that allowed to ordinary Americans.]

Chapel Hill Guy Oct 28, 2009 8:42 pm


Originally Posted by 777 global mile hound (Post 12727039)
Started canceling HH reservations today and cutting revenue nights off upcoming Hilton reservations:(
I regret doing this to certain hotels who have been so good to me over the years.
It could end up hurting some of the folks that I care about at the hotels.

This I just don't get. You have hotels and staff that treat you well, for years as you note, and you're ditching them, possibly hurting folks you care about, for what? A point devaluation? Cut off nose to spite face?

I've had a long-term relationship with one Hilton property in particular and I'd stay there if they didn't even give me points.

Do you value long-term relationships or points? :confused:

2400 Oct 28, 2009 10:53 pm

I've been a loyal Hilton patron since 1996. Holding Diamond status since 1998 -- averaging 50 stays a year -- I've experienced more than a couple of significant point devaluations. Nevertheless I remained loyal because I felt a certain reciprocity existed: in exchange for 28 stays/60 nights Hilton extended a consistently high level of service and accommodations. That no longer is the case. Executive Lounges are closed or are a poor imitation of what they once were; upgrades are now sold rather than comp'ed; resort fees must be contested to be removed; premium perks (2 bottles of water and a bag of chips, premium?) are too often forgotten by hotel staff; and finally, the MyWay benefits which were once standard across the board are now "pick one." Since the most recent devaluation I've changed my MyWay choices, for 2010 my choice is Starwood. Fortunately I've consumed most of my accummulated points or have gifted them so after one last stay in Rome in April I will have fewer than 10,000 points in my account. Perhaps over time Starwood will also disappoint, but with matched elite status I have nothing to lose.

travelexpert Oct 29, 2009 12:49 am


Originally Posted by Chapel Hill Guy (Post 12728575)
Do you value long-term relationships or points? :confused:

Both.

I have loved certain properties and developed great relationships with hotel staff.

But when I max out on my status for a year and the hotel program doesn't have a life time elite program, I have moved to another near by property. And developed excellent relationships there.

Sad to break it to hotel chains--in general they are a commodity, especially when it comes to extended stay in dense areas.

mnredfox Oct 29, 2009 8:59 am

To be on topic, I will probably still stay at Hilton, but shift more business to PC. Treatment and points are what factors this decision in the most.

BearX220 Oct 29, 2009 9:23 am


Originally Posted by ahappyelite (Post 12727394)
This is a totally out of control industry that still continues to charge more than $100 a night at every middle of nowhere hotel even those located in the middle of a filling station. The hotel scam (facilitated- sorry by business travellers who don't usually care if they are being ripped off). There are hefty redemption requirements, usually 2 or 3 hotels in the whole world in their lowest category, and a constant erosion of point value, and plenty of multi star "franchise in name only" dumps... The hotel folks remind me of the Sopranos- I won't even start about the double billing, charges I never made, sneaky fees, interent charges at $250 hotels, etec.

Well, you're not going to get Senate hearings on why HHonors points are worth less now, so put away your oversight fantasies. In fact airlines, hotels and car rental firms all have adversarial relationships with their customer base, but I think the hotel business is the toughest of the three. It's more competitive, fixed costs are astronomical, it's relatively easy for customers to cancel reservations without penalty, you have to fulfill your brand promise through (often) crazy, corrupt or unresponsive franchise operators and poorly trained, low-paid workers, etc. I wouldn't want to be in the hotel business.

I think you have to play chess with all travel and hospitality providers, I think it's naive to count any of them as your friends, but the hotel biz is only partly "out of control" because customers tolerate it. Nobody's being held hostage.

simonsmith Oct 29, 2009 9:30 am

Devaluing points already accumulated is mean; it would be fairer to reduce the number of points on future stays so at least one then has a choice.

SimpleManToo Oct 29, 2009 9:45 am

Time to ditch Hilton
 
Blackstone cares Not about FT members and probably does not think the loss of business will be significant. After all, they are a Leverage Buyout Ogranization (Think Barbarians at the gate).

Devaluation was inevitable to make the balance sheet look better. HH members need to send a message Loud and Clear and switch to other programs just to draw the attention of Hilton but remember Hilton is only One of Blackstone's companies and it's goal may be to make them more profitable at the expense of frequent guests.

GUWonder Oct 29, 2009 10:43 am


Originally Posted by SimpleManToo (Post 12731453)
Blackstone cares Not about FT members and probably does not think the loss of business will be significant. After all, they are a Leverage Buyout Ogranization (Think Barbarians at the gate).

Devaluation was inevitable to make the balance sheet look better. HH members need to send a message Loud and Clear and switch to other programs just to draw the attention of Hilton but remember Hilton is only One of Blackstone's companies and it's goal may be to make them more profitable at the expense of frequent guests.

Forget about the frequent guests -- Blackstone doesn't have the long-term interest of Hilton hotels in mind as long as it can create whatever conditions that allow it to project an image of Hilton having significantly greater long-term value to Hilton's future owner(s) than Hilton had when Blackstone acquired its controlling stake and "fixed" it for sale.

IrisT Oct 29, 2009 10:50 am

I agree with everyone who thinks the value of being a HHonors member has dropped a notch. Marriott was at the bottom of my list of choices because I feel their upgrades and points program is one the worst. I have now lumped my Hilton and Marriott choices into the same category.

boeing727 Oct 29, 2009 11:19 am

Buh Bye
 
Diamond level for the last 8 years, but no more! Will use my 1.3 million points for a cruise (or 2) next year. Already jumped ship with only 4 nights at Hilton in 2009. I spent the other 62 nights in 2009 at Holiday Inn Express, Starwood and some Choice properties. Buh bye HHonors......

P.S. Holiday Inn Express is 20%-30% less expensive than Hampton (in most cases), has a better breakfast, HD TV, nice shower head and double points offer thru year end.


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