Marriott won't increase as they did that last year, I think. In fact, they lowered two of their Hawaii resorts a notch -- Wailea in Maui and Waikoloa on the Big Island, right next to the Hilton.

SPG always reserves the right to move hotels up and down, but inasmuch as they lowered many, many hotels this year, and eliminated the high season rate redemptions -- unlike Hilton -- for the past year, I don't expect them to increase point levels or categories either for the next year.

Don't know enough about PC, but at least they have had some very good promotions this year that got me earning some of their points -- even without staying at any of their hotels -- in case I decide to use those points at one of their properties that I might need in a pinch.

Hyatt I think will stand pat, as they are all too happy to continue to poach disaffected HHonors members as well as demonstrate to all that they now have expanded their offerings in the US, at least, to cover many more major markets with either new builds or newly renovated properties. They always have relied on the superior service affordee by the "Hyatt Touch" and once the attention and promtion starved HHonors defectors get a bit of it, there will be no going back. Moreover, many of the road warriors who rack up significant time at the hotels will no doubt welcome the fact that there is no Hyatt credit card to -- in their mind -- dilute the program.

HHonors is in trouble.

Just switched 28 nights to Marriott and SPG
 

I just found out about this today. I called and moved 12 nights to Marriott and 12 to SPG. I am getting rid of my Hilton Amex. I doubt Hilton will care, but it will make me feel better.

I am extremely disappointed. I have been preventing my wife from using the points because I was hoarding 1.5 million points for a trip around the world.

I should have learned my lesson with Delta.

It looks like I will be going to Cabo this Christmas to burn some points.

I am moving most of my business from Hilton to Marriott, but in a few years Marriott will probably tick me off again and I will probably shift some business back to Hilton.

OFF-TOPIC:
I was about to reply that that was a terrible value for points. Great hotel, but I paid $125/night with the Visa offer earlier this year and the first night in December I checked came up at $150. However, then I checked around Christmas and found rates some nights north of $300 a night which is getting close to where I value 40,000 points.

At any rate, enjoy Cabo!

Truer words have never been spoken :)
That said Marriott disappoints me more on average with value then any other major program
The one exception may be their ability to redeem points for airline mileage at acceptable exchange rates unlike Hilton

+1 to the last point. PC members have been complaining of how hard it is to find availability at the lower levels (eg HI and HIX can be found for 15K-25K etc), but my biggest reason for moving biz there is their promotions, great treatment as a Plat, AND availability of Pointbreaks at 5K/night. Beats the heck out of Hilton's PS's that don't even exist anyway.

I have a 3 night stay costing me a whopping total of 15K pts/night at a HI.

LOL, said like a true FT-er! :D

i do not understand a lot of people on this board...

i do agree that hilton has terrible bonus points oppurtunities, i.e. hyatt= ffn, marriott= megabonus, etc...

i do agree that pointsavers/pointstretchers should be brought back and/or expanded.

but, hilton owns the hhonors program and they can dictate the rules of the program and raise the levels of redemption values if they like. also, don't some investments lose 20% of their value also? and i know, that an investment can go up, and hhonors values, will not likely go up in value.

my thing is, if one likes the hotel, then stay at it, if they treat you well ,then stay there, if not, then stay someplace else. this point accumulation has gotten out of hand, and i am as guilty as anyone else of this as well.

also, i would assume that most of these points "earned" are on the companies dime, and then therefore are in a way "free", where my points are all earned on my dime, and with points a lot of people can go on fantastic vacations for virtually nothing, i think that people should look at that, that they are going to these great hotels and flying business or first class for virtually nothing, on the companies dime.

While this may be true for many here, it is not true for everyone, yourself included.

It should be noted, however, that many of those who do travel frequently on the company dime or otherwise, have noted a general deterioration in the HHonors program and level of service afforded top tier members -- from the Nor 1 program, to ill trained Diamond line personnel.

I think that the point/category increases would have been received in a better light had it not been for the above reasons I have mentioned, the lack of P/S, the re-categorization of hitherto top properties into the Waldorf brand incurring already increased point redemtions and a concommitant decision of some hotels to exclude top tier guest from lounges hitherto available to Diamond members = Cavalieri, the lack of meaningful point bonuses this year, etc.

Marriott's megabonus is the least of the attractive bonuses mentioned. PC had a free night promotion this year, Starwood, as well and Hyatt has one right now, as you had mentioned.

What is Hilton's promotion? 25,000 bonus points after 5 stays is it, or something like that? Big whoop, gets you a new Category 3-4 hotel for 1 night, is it?

Meanwhile, 5 stays will yield 2 1/2 free nights at Park Hyatt properties or anything else in the Hyatt portfolio.

Just no comparison, really.

Finally, whether accurate or not -- and I think it is likely more accurate -- many members here feel that Blackstone has decided to share the pain of their bad decision to purchase Hilton at the top of the market with the HHonors membership -- this, too, does not go over well with the people on this board.

Indeed all programs can make changes at any time and all customers can vote with their feet and wallet. Every great program has made blunders over the years. Hilton HHonors is no exception
Many programs realized that and made the changes accordingly when appropriate
Just look at the historical data on that.

As for great hotels Hilton certainly has some but frequently I am stuck at a boring Hampton Inn or a Hilton Garden Inn which is adequate but far from what I called a preferred hotel. So why stay? For the opportunity to stay in their better hotels on points and have a point currency of value. The way I would describe it is flying my tired old legacy carrier regularly for a transatlantic flight in First Class on British Airways
It makes up for the rest of the boring year in coach or domestic business or first

Reality? There are numerous other programs offering superior value the playing field is no longer reasonbaly level with the upcoming devaluation at HH
If someone is thrilled with say a Hampton Inn over a Hyatt Place or has no other choice because of location so be it. However there are far more exciting alternatives then ever before in history then with Hiltons generic ok brands
Examples? Starwoods Aloft and Element. Hyatt Place, Indigo and others

Bonus opportunities have improved on the Hilton Amex credit card and the new 25k bonus for 4 stays. So what though….
They are now they are taking it all back by devaluing the currency.
Whats the point of working as hard staying in their hotels to give it back without fair ability for redemption?

The fact is in this economy leisure is frequently outstripping business travel
So more is out of pocket.
You mention Point Stretchers should come back and be expanded. I agree.
However at the end of the day you want them back with expanded options for solid good reason. Simply because for each and every one of us its all about smart educated financial choices which is the value of the point currency and the value now is going to be poor regardless of who pays for it out of pocket or employer.

That said with other excellent programs not eroding their point currency Hilton took a great risk at a poor time and IMO will have a bigger problem by paying a price to some degree.
The current regime is finance oriented not program oriented and it’s all about the program in a sea of options for consumers. Let the free market prevail and may every member make the best choice in their personal decision
Mine is to dramatically decrease staying at Hilton properties until some major improvements in their offerings/value come down the road to make it more worthwhile.......
Cheers

I must say, if I wasn't a HGVC owner, I would be out of HH all together.

Today I called into customer support to make an award booking.
35,000 per night for a hotel that is going for $150 USD online.

Clearly this is not a deal, and I expressed my concern, and POLIETLY asked her to forward this concern to management, that either the hotel is rated to high, or the stretcher program should be on, AND the 2010 value should be going down not up.

She proceeds to tell me that Hilton Hotels and Resorts has emerged from the recession and Hilton Hotels are booked at 90% this holiday season and they see no reason to make changes for lower rates especially in the HH program.

She was def going rouge on me, I wanted to probe more, but the wife was calling for dinner and I had lost ALL patience with the CSR' calm, yet offensive attitude.

All she had to do was pass my info onwards, not give me a lesson in hoteliering.

I will go with SPG since they are holding firm, and I like their brands.

In March 2007, MR moved 500+ hotels one category up without any advance notice.

Further Observations from 2009 Program Change:

• 7 nights Europe Hotel Sampler (2/2/3 nights) raised from 150K MR points to 280K MR points for Cat 8 hotels (devaluation: 86.67%)
• 13 Hotels moved to Cat 8 Hotel. 7 consecutive nights stay at Cat 8 Hotel raised from 150K MR points to 240 K MR points (devaluation: 60%)
• 7 consecutive nights stay at Cat 7 Hotel raised from 150K MR points to 210 K MR points (devaluation: 40%)
• The cost of my preferred Travel Package (7 nights at Cat 6 & 120K or 85K Airline miles) raised from 250K to 300K (devaluation: 20%)

Devaluation of Travel Packages & Hotel Sampler

Thank you for the bad memories :)
I remember the uproar now as I type
Because I was not an active engaged member in that program at the time it had little impact on me. What impact it did have on me was to never stay in a Marriott property except as a last resort. Not only did I hear how unhappy members were with the changes due to poor notice but how unhappy they were on average for what recognition they received as a Platinum members.
75 Nights per year should be highly rewarded

I have appprox 150 k left in MR sitting around in that program from many years ago. Devalued programs have a long lasting impact the way I see it. For instance when I go to look at the Marriott Rewards chart I always see a program with minimal value except on some select extended reward stays
The work and cost involved staying with them not to mention recognition keeps me from doing business with them.

Where as with Hyatt and Starwood and IHG I can see good or great value even when redeeming for a single night on cash and points, points or promotional period rewards. Those primary programs on the whole deliver powerful value year round in or out of promotional periods.HH is particularly troubling to me especially as it had risen to a top program of choice for me over the past few years.
They come and they go as they say.
Next :eek:

First of all, let me say you can look back here and see I've been a fan of Hyatt for ten years now, so I agree, their promo is better, but to claim their is "no comparison" is a bit hyperbolic I believe. The Hyatt promo is the best of the bunch because they don't have restrictions on the day of the week you can use your free nights and you still earn other bonuses and your usual points. PC's was limited to four free nights plus you didn't earn base and bonus points during the promotion, even after you earned your four free nights already! SPG's was limited to weekend redemptions only. All three give you a limited amount of time to redeem the free nights then they're gone. (Hyatt just this year started allowing you to take points instead, which is what I have done myself).

While I agree on the surface 25,000 HHonors points is not as valuable as one of those free nights, when you consider that the 25,000 HHonors points are bankable indefinitely compared to the perishable free nights, that is an intangible advantage.

With the SPG promotion I just ended up burning three free nights at local hotels ...

Not to get in the middle of two bright and great long time contributors to our FT communities both posters who I admire. While the discussion is on
I am going to take the side of NJupintheair in principal as making a good assessment overall

Agree with you Beckles about the long term ability to bank those miles as a great tangible benefit for members vs expiring promotional nights

However those HH points are sinking quickly being worth in less then 60 days 20k or less for 4 stays. And only generously offered all off sudden just weeks before the obvious upcoming devaluation. A little suspect here?
Typically before this so called generous promotion one had to beat their head in to find what properties participated (scary) and yield a stingy bonus if lucky.

I dare Hilton with or without a massive devaluation to come out with one broad based promotion in their lifetime that isn't a highly restricted offering with one half the value of SPG Hyatt or IHG.Something that these programs feature with their promotional offerings year round to their members. I was a huge fan of HH before the announced over the top category /devaluation changes.

Perhaps time will soften me however for today I am sticking with my plan
To support my other preferred programs until they too tick me off lol
I am seeing gold in them thar hills and isn’t HHonors in the New Year going forward at present

We hit the 28-stay HH Diamond threshold a week ago. Our remaining stays this year (maybe three or four) will NOT be with Hilton. The Hilton chain definitely lost our year-end business because of the devaluation. I wonder whether anybody is listening ...

Beckles --

I am glad that banking 25,000 points works for you -- but that is truly a small amount and its ability to purchase anything within HHonors just gets smaller.

I would much rather have any of the other promotions that I have cited -- even though they have/had an expiration.

SPG -- How long did this promotion run for, 4 months to redeem free nights and you burned 3 locally. First, did you earn more than 3 nights and were you able to use them elsewhere? Second, even if not, one should always plan ahead to see if they can use what they earn -- if not, there is no point in earning them. I am sorry, but honestly, your inability to use the 3 free nights was a lack of foresight on your part, not a problem with the promotion, even if you were limited to using them on Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Readers should also know that the free nights were able to be used at properties up to a SPG Category 6 level out of a total of 7 different levels -- this included all of the St. Regis and W hotels in the USA, I believe except for the St Regis NYC.

PC -- True you did not earn points or bonus points, but you were able to earn free nights while staying at a property without popping around as it permitted free nights earnings via consecutive nights. Second, it was redeemable at any PC property worldwide, and third it was redeemable by the end of the year. Only downside was that once you booked a free night, you had to stick with it, or you lost it -- you could not re-book it for another date or another hotel, etc. Again, this requires some pre-planning and no changes but most were quite happy with the value this promotion afforded and many took advantage of it.

Marriott -- Megabonus is not that much different that the Hilton promotion, perhaps more useful points to be eaned but essentially they are similar.

Hyatt -- No need recounting the many pluses of the current promotion as it has been done already.

I think on balance most would skip the HHonors promotion of at most 25,000 points after 5 stays as opposed to the 2 /1/2 free nights given them by Hyatt, SPG or PC respectively, and most would have been able to plan to use those free nights in an effective manner.

However, to each his own. :)