RutDog, I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. My point is that in a recession, there is a glut of rooms and therefore the value of a room decreases. At the same time, HH is increasing the price in points of these rooms. So its an unjustified double-whammy.

I believe your point is that its Simply Good Business to raise the redemption levels to get people to pay in cash instead of points. I agree with your view of human behavior to prefer to conserve cash. However, if you extend this logic, then Hilton should raise the cash prices of their properties as well, since this will bring in more revenue per room.

What your analysis leaves out is that a lot of us would not spend $300+ per night at HWV if we had to spend cash. As pointed out, HH fails as a loyalty program and I'd happily accept a 50%+ discount to use priceline and stay at a comparable or better property.

Or to extend your argument a little further, Hilton should advertise one price and raise it once the guest arrives. Isn't that what Hilton has done with the HH program? I feel they have.

I estimate a HH point is worth $.0068 to me assuming I'm redeeming a VIP award. I get that by figuring a room is worth at most $200 a night times 6 nights divived by 175,000. For $200, I can stay at what is probably a better boutique hotel or pay less and get something comparable on Priceline, even in Europe these days. Not being diamond, when you deduct for capacity controls and similar factors, the risk of future devaluations, etc., I'm not sure its worth the effort. I'm shifting more of my spending to cash back credit cards.

P.S. I don't mean to challenge you, but I'm left unpersuaded. I appreciate the back and forth, and hope you do to.

I had a question for all:

For those of you who have more than 100,000 points, are you going to cash in the GLON award for 100,000 miles (even though you may nothave anything specific planned)?

No. I usually don't stay that long in any one place. I also try to include at least one revenue night in any of the awards that I may use. It's amazing how one "paid" night before free nights ensures all benefits that otherwise might not be available due to capacity controls. I do this even though I am a diamond.

Most likely, in my case.

While I feel for those of you who have chosen Hilton as a primary program, I personally can't be too upset. I ran up 115,000 points with ~8 stays (mostly in 2001), so I can't really complain that Hilton is giving me over a year to use a GLON at the old rate. And the Gold status that I've had for the last 2 years was through one of the 50,000 promos, and using AAGU on the last day (2/28) I now have Gold for another 2 years. I've had a very easy time with Hilton, and I can deal with the devaluation as a result.

I, too, have the problem that another poster has- I'm not used to staying at hotels for more than a few nights. It makes choosing a hotel for a GLON that much more difficult!

deflating point values
 

The new Hilton web site is tremendous-ly bad! It is hard to look at account information and the value of my points has again gone down. I see that a $100 gift certificate for major retailers has gone up .... was 30,000 points and now 40,000 points.
I wrote hilton and was very careful not to sound like a complainer. I stated my veiws in a civil fashion despite the anger I had toward the new "rewards"!!!
a bass boat for over 9,000,000 points
a nintendo I could buy at a store for $300 for over 350,000 points?
a snowmobile for over 6,000,000 points.
a telephone with an xtra handset for over 90,000
...

I redeemed 110,000 in las vegas 4 yrs ago for $400 in chips... now the same amount of chips costs 160,000 as the value is now 40,000 points for a $100 chip.
The value of the points has been great in europe or asia when staying at a Hilton or Conrad for 25,000-35,000 points a night. with a Diamond upgrade for a deluxe room and executive floor privillages the value of the points is as high as $450+ a night based on guests who pay in cash.

Two and a half years ago I took my girlfriend to Frankfurt and Athens 150,000 points each for airfare from green bay to frankfurt (25,000 united points from frankfurt to athens) athens hilton was 25,000points a night X 5 night stay . frankfurt hilton was a little more per night ....anyway the whole trip cost 500,000 points.
Now this trip is not available- as the air is no longer an option with Hilton honors program. A Hilton rep said the airlines were to blame as they were asking too much for the airline certificates. I wonder if the airlines also saw the points that they were trading for flights as being devalued and not worth the trouble. Other companies seem to still be offering air travel as a program benefit.
I have 500,000 points right now. After I burn them up I am thinking about switching preferences. Marriott said if I had 18 stays in a quarter they would give me Diamond equivlent status. Starwood gave me Platinum just for asking when I mentioned 120 nights a year in Hilton properties.

Some people like cheverolet some like ford some like dodge. (usually because of a very good or a very bad expierence.) They are all basically the same, it is the luck of the draw in some cases ... you may have a great car and you may have a lemon.

Is there that big of a difference with hotels or am I flippin out about nothin and should shut up @:-).
After all the hard earned points are mine because of a good inghts rest.....
I got them for sleeping

It used to be that there were some reasonable deals for converting HH points to airline points and VV. However, the "value" of trades has diminished greatly in the last few years. My guess is that its due to the decline in profitability of the airline business in general since 2000.

As to trading points for retail items, its almost never a good deal to do so with any program's points (airline or hotel). The "prices" are always a poor value vs. paying cash when compared to the potential value of redemption for stays or flights. The real value is in using a loyalty program's points within the group that they were earned from in the first place.

I agree with the analysis of value of retail items.

Deflation? Certainly.

However, I see both an inflation in points and and increase of the "point price" in particular here in Europe. During the last two years I had two triple points and two double points promotions (took some telephone calls, but it worked). The best "point for the dollar" deals were in New York (360.000 points for 6000 Dollar and 205.000 points for 4100 Dollar) - this alone secures 20 nights in a Cat. 6 hotel. This cannot be a sound development: 20 nights in a top European place with a rate of 320 Euro cost about the same I paid for my original stays in New York. Spend 10.000 Dollar in New York, get 10.000 Dollar of European travel for free.

You guys in the US will certainly feel the pain even more. The Categories of the European properties went up - certainly a result of the weak Dollar. On the other side of the pond we enjoy it: A 220 Euro rate for the Hilton Berlin is still a 220 Euro rate, but scores about 6.000 points. Five stays, get one free. With the greenback at 1,20 and not at 1,50 it was about six 1/2 stays to get one free, the weak Dollar increases the European domestic value of the point.

Over 4 years hotel prices have gone through the roof. Yes points have changed a lot since then, but some things have been added,since they were runnning so mnay promos a couple of years ago at double or triple points for 90 days or more.

Inflation rampant in points
 

Inflation has greatly impacted point values. I am too young to remember this but it used to be that you actually had to fly in an airplane or stay in a hotel to get these miles/points. Now, just charge your grandchildren into debters prison and you can get the 1% freebee that used to be a reward for being a good customer. I tend to use them whenever I see a reward I want, like a free subscription ot the Economist (jk). If you store these things up and never use them, the point inflation will kill you. Unlike bank accounts, these points don't have an interest rate to ease or bail out the owners from inflation's bite. I just wish I had stashed some money in EUR or CAD two years ago when I had the chance to move away from the Bush Peso.

I will give this a whirl if I can pull it off!
Thanks

That is the problem with all points/miles programs, which is why I shake my head when I see people proudly boasting about "banking" 4 or 5 million points, etc... why save them? They are worth less and less every day.

The merchandise catalogue tied to HHonors, though, is indeed ridiculous. When you can spend 30,000 points on a NYC hotel room that retails for up to $500 or 350,000 points on a Wii that retails for $250, the valuation is beyond absurd. The merch is either for people who have so many points they don't care that they're getting screwed... or people too busy to comparison-shop.

Consequence of Honors Devaluation: Commitments to Take our Business Elsewhere
 

Since we at FT are probably the most intense travelers and revenue generators for travel suppliers, we probably have more power than we realize.

I am starting this thread to demonstrate to HHONORS that going ahead with devaluing our points when the economy has plummeted and business travel is in a slump makes no logical sense.

If hotel rates were rising, Hilton would be pressured by its owner franchisees to increase the rates they get when providing reward space. Since rates are plummeting, there cannot be such pressure, and Hilton is obviously making this change to enhance its own profitability at the expense of its most loyal customers.

Over the past several years, Ms. Travelexpert and I have consistently been giving Hilton 120 nights each year.

So I'll start out making a commitment to decrease my Hilton business to zero if possible. On occasion, Hilton may be the best option--but I'll seek out alternatives moving forward if the new award chart is implemented next January.

Not likely
 

As with other gripes about this program and that...just read the forums for other hotel programs - same .....ing and moaning at various times. Devaluation...bonuses...blah blah blah. The grass isn't greener elsewhere and whining here isn't going to do anything to change a devaluation that's already announced. Hey, if anyone actually follows through and reduces or eliminates their HH stays, there will be more upgrade opportunities for the rest of us - even with NOR1.

I am a HH Diamond member, in a Doubletree property as we speak. Tomorrow night I have a reservation at a Hilton property, and kid you not have cancelled the reservation a minute ago to transfer to a Sheraton after reading the thread on the increased point redemptions.

I was already on the verge of going back full time to SPG as their top tier benefits are so much more rewarding. You actually get upgraded. Quite often to a suite. 4PM checkout is much easier to get. Their Platinum members are actually valued.

So much so, that I am going to go out of my way, even when geographically it is more convenient to stay at a Hilton property, to patronize SPG properties. As they actually deserve my business.

Another HH Diamond here who was prepared to make a few mattress runs to re-up for diamond. After seeing the devaluation I have cancelled my Hilton plans and will stick with SPG Platinum and Priority Club Ambassador.

Thanks Hilton for making the decision easy,
sdcarver