Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Frontier Airlines | Frontier Miles Program
Reload this Page >

Article about Frontier/Midwest/Republic in Denver Post

Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Article about Frontier/Midwest/Republic in Denver Post

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 22, 2010 | 8:34 am
  #1  
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
30 Countries Visited
1M
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Plat Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 22,651
Article about Frontier/Midwest/Republic in Denver Post

From the Denver Post

"Merger muddles Republic Airways' branding
Until airline makes decision, fliers still uncertain whom they are flying: Frontier, Midwest or Republic?
By Ann Schrader
The Denver Post
Posted: 02/21/2010 01:00:00 AM MST
Updated: 02/21/2010 11:14:50 AM MST

When Republic Airways acquired Frontier and Midwest airlines last year, three companies needed to become one but integration has been bumpy.

Customers complain they book flights on Midwest Airlines' website, but Frontier Airlines' white-fuselaged Airbus jets are at the gate and Republic Airways flight crews greet them when they board.

Adding to the muddle is when a smaller Republic Embraer jet is used on a flight and has none of the signature attributes of Frontier or Midwest.

Call it brand confusion.

Even Bryan Bedford, Republic's chief executive, admits, "We're just as confused as everybody."

Bedford said in recent interviews that a branding decision largely based on surveys of 30,000 people across the nation and employees will be made sometime next month.

"We want to know what is it that they value," Bedford said, about what he calls "two well-loved brands in their home markets."

The two airlines' frequent fliers 1.7 million of Frontier's EarlyReturns members and 1.1 million of Midwest's Midwest Miles members are being asked whether they cherish Frontier's seatback TVs, or whether they're smitten with Midwest's chocolate-chip cookies.

"We want to find out if the cookie is relevant," Bedford said, confiding the cookies are only warmed up in flight and aren't actually baked in the air.

The aim is to "harmonize" Frontier's and Midwest's brands beyond the codesharing common among independent carriers.

At first, the integration plan called for maintaining two separate brands. Now, said Republic spokesman Carlo Bertolini, "We wouldn't rule out anything."

One possible action could be flying under one name.

"That is something we would have to consider," Bertolini said. "There are a couple of different routes: reinvent the wheel and create a new brand, maintain both, or one. What is decided will focus on what is best for customers."

At several recent investor conferences, Bedford acknowledged "short-term inconsistency" for customers but said that is outweighed by approval of new routes and destinations created by the integration.

"Republic is moving a lot of pieces around the board," said William Swelbar, research engineer for the International Center for Air Transportation at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Bedford and his team seem "truly focused on Frontier and Midwest, and making that transition. It's not an easy one," Swelbar said. "Bedford has to kind of build an airline, and that's a little confusing for passengers."

Swelbar cautioned the confusion can lead to erosion of the community's allegiance to a "hometown" airline. For Frontier, he said, that loyalty "really is the franchise."

Passenger Jeff Evans of Denver said if the Frontier name and image are dropped, "so will any remaining loyalty I had. I am committed to not fly Frontier until it is clear what will become of the brand because of it no longer being Denver's hometown airline."

In January, Republic announced executives will move to its Indianapolis headquarters and several Frontier leaders would leave, including Sean Menke, who guided Frontier through bankruptcy.

Integration in the eyes of the public has challenges.

Midwest has been primarily a business carrier, with about $400 million in annual revenues. Frontier excels as a leisure carrier, with $1.3 billion in annual revenues.

Midwest recently was rated the No. 1 domestic carrier by Zagat and No. 3 by Conde Nast.

Milwaukee's convention center touts Midwest's name. But the beer-and-bratwurst city has disengaged a bit from the airline, reeling when Midwest scrambled for survival by furloughing employees in 2008.

More job losses came after Republic purchased Midwest on July 31, by then a shell of its former self.

As a poster on flyertalk.com noted: "There is not much of the old Midwest left I've even read that sometimes the cookie is cold."

Frontier was born in Denver, which was supportive of the company, its employees and cuddly, talking tail animals during bankruptcy that ended Oct. 1 when Republic bought it.

Communication with employees is a good way to maintain service and brand loyalty during change, said Cyndi Fukami, management professor at the University of Denver Daniels College of Business.

"There is some pretty good data that indicate merging companies is not a very successful practice," Fukami said, with corporate cultural differences as a reason for disharmony.

Involvement of employees, who are a company's public face, cuts the likelihood of cultural problems, Fukami said.

"It's a matter of how they are being led, how they are being treated," Fukami said. "Frontier did act like a family, and that's a tough act to follow."

In the airline industry, brand-name loyalty is not a big issue, said Donald Lichtenstein, marketing chairman of the University of Colorado Leeds School of Business. "People shop airlines based on convenience, schedule and price."

Lichtenstein said he would pick one brand to avoid consumer confusion and he'd make that move quickly.

"The notion is to give consumers confidence that it is a coordinated airline where things are under control, that things are done smoothly and it is a safe, reliable airline," Lichtenstein said."

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_14438940
FriendlySkies is offline  
Old Feb 22, 2010 | 1:28 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Central Florida
Programs: no elite status, but i get around
Posts: 369
After reading yesterday, my first thought for a new name was "Midtier". Not only is it a combo of Midwest and Frontier, but it defines the airline as middle-tier.
As much as I hate to see the Frontier name/brand go, maybe rebranding the entire group as Republic is a good idea.
airplanegeek is offline  
Old Feb 22, 2010 | 3:05 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
I can't speak for why folks from MKE fly Midwest anymore although I sure enjoyed the old Midwest from 5-10 years ago with tons of room and great meals.

But, speaking as a Denverite --- I tend to think we like supporting our local airline, even if its not quite so local anymore. We like to think we're a frontier city and F9 helps support our identity. Its something the ranchers and granola eaters can unify around. F9 is a great brand -- maybe the brand is better than the airline (after a while they catch up). UA and Republic -- they're just other airlines.

Kill the brand -- and kill brand loyalty.
C17PSGR is offline  
Old Feb 22, 2010 | 3:10 pm
  #4  
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
30 Countries Visited
1M
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Plat Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 22,651
Originally Posted by C17PSGR
snip...

Kill the brand -- and kill brand loyalty.
+11111

I can't agree more! If Republic axes the F9 brand, I'll just stop flying them. Hopefully Bedford realizes that the F9 brand should be kept.
FriendlySkies is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 7:41 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: LH Miles & More, F9 Early Returns
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by FriendlySkies
+11111

I can't agree more! If Republic axes the F9 brand, I'll just stop flying them. Hopefully Bedford realizes that the F9 brand should be kept.
I'm the Jeff Evans quoted in the article, and that's exactly how I feel. There's just something special about going to Concourse A at DEN and seeing all of the tails with the animals lined up. Hopefully they'll keep them around for a long time to come.
N810FR is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 8:20 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,691
Originally Posted by N810FR
There's just something special about going to Concourse A at DEN and seeing all of the tails with the animals lined up. Hopefully they'll keep them around for a long time to come.
I was just in DEN this weekend... from A24 to A38; E170, A319, E170, E170, A320, A319, E170, A320

What I see as the most frustrating part is F9's fare structure where on 2 of the 3 choices offer free DirecTV and snacks, but neither is offered now on many flights...
United737522 is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 9:37 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: LH Miles & More, F9 Early Returns
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by United737522
I was just in DEN this weekend... from A24 to A38; E170, A319, E170, E170, A320, A319, E170, A320

What I see as the most frustrating part is F9's fare structure where on 2 of the 3 choices offer free DirecTV and snacks, but neither is offered now on many flights...
Wow, hadn't noticed that last time I flew but that was out of Concourse C so that explains a lot. It really surprises me that Frontier is able to sell their upper two fares tiers when there is no LiveTV and they don't offer the same onboard product. I'd maybe look into calling the DOT about deceptive business practices on the part of Republic over this...
N810FR is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 9:56 am
  #8  
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
30 Countries Visited
1M
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Plat Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 22,651
Originally Posted by N810FR
I'm the Jeff Evans quoted in the article, and that's exactly how I feel. There's just something special about going to Concourse A at DEN and seeing all of the tails with the animals lined up. Hopefully they'll keep them around for a long time to come.
Welcome to FlyerTalk! We must have had the same idea, because I also talked with Ann over the phone and told her that if Republic got rid of the F9 image, they would loose a lot of supporters from Denver and I would also stop flying them...

Lets hope they keep the brand and rely less on the E170/E190, and more on the Airbus fleet!!
FriendlySkies is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 10:19 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: LH Miles & More, F9 Early Returns
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by FriendlySkies
Welcome to FlyerTalk! We must have had the same idea, because I also talked with Ann over the phone and told her that if Republic got rid of the F9 image, they would loose a lot of supporters from Denver and I would also stop flying them...

Lets hope they keep the brand and rely less on the E170/E190, and more on the Airbus fleet!!
Absolutely, there was a reason Frontier chose the Airbus fleet so who is to say that the jungle jets will be more effective? If I expected the kind of service you get on the Republic jets from every Frontier flight then there would be absolutely no reason to fly Frontier over United/Delta/US Airways/Continental/Southwest*/or Alaska Airlines. When you start taking away the things that Frontier had that other carriers didn't you lose the basic foundation of a loyal following, that being a consistent product across the fleet.

*I have never and never will fly Southwest Airlines. Hopefully they'll decide subsidizing losses at Denver isn't the most effective route and leave the market entirely.
N810FR is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 10:22 am
  #10  
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
30 Countries Visited
1M
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Plat Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 22,651
Originally Posted by N810FR
Absolutely, there was a reason Frontier chose the Airbus fleet so who is to say that the jungle jets will be more effective? If I expected the kind of service you get on the Republic jets from every Frontier flight then there would be absolutely no reason to fly Frontier over United/Delta/US Airways/Continental/Southwest*/or Alaska Airlines. When you start taking away the things that Frontier had that other carriers didn't you lose the basic foundation of a loyal following, that being a consistent product across the fleet.

*I have never and never will fly Southwest Airlines. Hopefully they'll decide subsidizing losses at Denver isn't the most effective route and leave the market entirely.
Very glad to hear somebody say that! I also have a personal goal to never fly Southwest. So far, my record still stands....

I really don't like the fact that a traveler could purchase a Classic Plus fare, to find out that they are flying a Republic jet, so they loose out on the LiveTV and some of the other perks of flying Frontier. I do hope Bedford realizes what he is doing, and recognizes the fact that he will loose loyal Denverites who depend on Frontier.
FriendlySkies is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 10:32 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: LH Miles & More, F9 Early Returns
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by FriendlySkies
I really don't like the fact that a traveler could purchase a Classic Plus fare, to find out that they are flying a Republic jet, so they loose out on the LiveTV and some of the other perks of flying Frontier. I do hope Bedford realizes what he is doing, and recognizes the fact that he will loose loyal Denverites who depend on Frontier.
That's what particularly irks me... I've been looking at one way SFO-DEN fares on Frontier, and they offer plenty of non-stops but also offer SFO-MKE-DEN, which do not have the Classic and Classic Plus fare available. Great, they shouldn't if the flights aren't operated by Frontier Airlines. However, trying to find a flight DEN-OMA and two of the flights are operated by Lynx, so no bones there as I'd rather not complain about Lynx, but the other four flights are operated by Republic on Ejets and still have Classic and Classic Plus available. Suppose I step onboard the plane having paid for the Classic fare and expect to be able to watch TV but it's not there, shouldn't Frontier have to refund the difference in price I paid for the fare?

It amazes me that so far nothing concrete has come out over the branding issues because that seems so paramount to the airline moving forward.
N810FR is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 11:09 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MKE
Programs: Delta Skymiles, Frontier EarlyReturns Summit
Posts: 766
Originally Posted by N810FR
Suppose I step onboard the plane having paid for the Classic fare and expect to be able to watch TV but it's not there, shouldn't Frontier have to refund the difference in price I paid for the fare?

It amazes me that so far nothing concrete has come out over the branding issues because that seems so paramount to the airline moving forward.
They had the same issue with the Lynx Q400 not having Direct TV. There are numerous other benefits to the higher fare classes and the ** on the AirFairs page clearly says DirectTv is only offered on Airbus flights. Considering a lot of the Ejets (a really nice plane BTW) are replacing Q400 or are being used on new routes most customers flying them probably consider it an upgrade.

The reason they haven't given out any details on the branding yet is because they are waiting for it to be concrete on which way to go. It would be much worse for them if they said all flights getting DirecTV and then for some reason it didn't work out. The branding is the biggest decision and they have to manage consumer expectations while not promising anything they can't deliver. They understand that it is imperative that they provide a consistent onboard product but if LiveTV is too heavy for the EJets then they have to decide if it makes sense to have it on the Airbus too. They don't have infinite money to just replace all of the ejets with A320s and the airbus is simply too much capacity for certain routes.
MikeFromMKE is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 11:15 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 25
United737522, I don't believe you could have seen that many E-170s. They were probably E-190s.

Taking a quick look at today's flights out of Denver betweeen 8am and 8pm, about 65% of them are on Airbuses, 9% of them are on E-190s or E-170s, and 18% of them are on Q400s. The Q400s don't have DirecTV and I doubt they have snacks.

If the E-190s are going to stay with Frontier, one would think they would get Frontier liveries, even if they stay with Republic/Midwest crews.

The E-190 flights were to: Spokane, Omaha (2), Seattle, San Diego (2), Milwaukee, Akron/Canton (2), and San Jose.

There was one E-170 flight, to Omaha.

N810FR, maybe you'd rather not complain about Lynx but Lynx doesn't offer DirecTV or even STRETCH seating, yet still offers Classic and Classic Plus tickets. Free DirecTV is a small part of these fares. You also get free checked baggage, extra FF mileage, and reduced or zero change fees.

The double asterisk ** clearly states that DirecTV is only available on Airbus flights. The "popup" which describes "Classic" or "Classic Plus" is even clearer.
NoOneOfImportance is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 12:06 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: LH Miles & More, F9 Early Returns
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by NoOneOfImportance
If the E-190s are going to stay with Frontier, one would think they would get Frontier liveries, even if they stay with Republic/Midwest crews.

The E-190 flights were to: Spokane, Omaha (2), Seattle, San Diego (2), Milwaukee, Akron/Canton (2), and San Jose.
I think it's safe to say though that people who could have originally flown to Spokane, Omaha, Seattle, San Diego, Milwaukee, Akron/Canton, and San Jose on Frontier with the Airbus jets would be displeased that they no longer have LiveTV available to them. Maybe people weren't watching it, but for those that chose to watch LiveTV (be they Class/Classic Plus fares, Ascent and Summit members, or people willing to pay the fee) would be displeased with not having that available to them. If the only departure time that works for them is now on a jungle jet as opposed to an Airbus as it used to be I think they have the right to be unhappy, as the in-flight experience has changed drastically. It's one thing to book a ticket on say Southwest, knowing there is no in-flight entertainment on any of their planes, as opposed to booking with Frontier and having been accustomed to having the LiveTV available.

If I were a Frontier employee I'd be disheartened knowing that Republic has brought in their own method of running an airline that seems much less customer oriented and in the long run is likely to alienate many loyal Frontier fliers. When something works, why try and change it? Sure you can try and bring costs down but if what it takes to lower costs also lowers revenue then there's no upside to having lowered costs in the first place.

Originally Posted by MikeFromMKE
They had the same issue with the Lynx Q400 not having Direct TV.

They understand that it is imperative that they provide a consistent onboard product but if LiveTV is too heavy for the EJets then they have to decide if it makes sense to have it on the Airbus too. They don't have infinite money to just replace all of the ejets with A320s and the airbus is simply too much capacity for certain routes.
The difference with Lynx compared to the routes as mentioned earlier being flown by the jungle jets is the stage length. I think most people would pass on LiveTV for a 30 minute flight to COS, that's common sense and therefor the lack of LiveTV doesn't hold back customers, according to Republic it's the fact that the flights aren't operated by jets.

If the LiveTV system is too heavy for the jungle jets leave the jungle jets in Milwaukee where people seem to be so enamored with the product provided by the quasi Midwest/Republic forgotten step-child that the airline has become. When given the choice of flying from Florida to Denver I think many customers would be thankful for the LiveTV product, but when that ceases to exist it may send customers over to other airlines, who guess what, happen to be installing IFE on their planes as they've determined it to be worth the cost and customers seem to like it.
N810FR is offline  
Old Feb 23, 2010 | 12:27 pm
  #15  
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
30 Countries Visited
1M
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Plat Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 22,651
Originally Posted by N810FR
I think it's safe to say though that people who could have originally flown to Spokane, Omaha, Seattle, San Diego, Milwaukee, Akron/Canton, and San Jose on Frontier with the Airbus jets would be displeased that they no longer have LiveTV available to them. Maybe people weren't watching it, but for those that chose to watch LiveTV (be they Class/Classic Plus fares, Ascent and Summit members, or people willing to pay the fee) would be displeased with not having that available to them. If the only departure time that works for them is now on a jungle jet as opposed to an Airbus as it used to be I think they have the right to be unhappy, as the in-flight experience has changed drastically. It's one thing to book a ticket on say Southwest, knowing there is no in-flight entertainment on any of their planes, as opposed to booking with Frontier and having been accustomed to having the LiveTV available.

If I were a Frontier employee I'd be disheartened knowing that Republic has brought in their own method of running an airline that seems much less customer oriented and in the long run is likely to alienate many loyal Frontier fliers. When something works, why try and change it? Sure you can try and bring costs down but if what it takes to lower costs also lowers revenue then there's no upside to having lowered costs in the first place.


The difference with Lynx compared to the routes as mentioned earlier being flown by the jungle jets is the stage length. I think most people would pass on LiveTV for a 30 minute flight to COS, that's common sense and therefor the lack of LiveTV doesn't hold back customers, according to Republic it's the fact that the flights aren't operated by jets.

If the LiveTV system is too heavy for the jungle jets leave the jungle jets in Milwaukee where people seem to be so enamored with the product provided by the quasi Midwest/Republic forgotten step-child that the airline has become. When given the choice of flying from Florida to Denver I think many customers would be thankful for the LiveTV product, but when that ceases to exist it may send customers over to other airlines, who guess what, happen to be installing IFE on their planes as they've determined it to be worth the cost and customers seem to like it.
Perhaps Republic could take a page from Air Canada. AC operates 45 E190s, and each of them have IFE at every seat. Although the IFE is not live, maybe that would be something Republic could look at for the jungle jets... Or...let Frontier continue to operate the way they were and order some more a/c from the Airbus family...


http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fl...braer-190.html
FriendlySkies is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.