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-   -   Expansion of the pass sanitaire (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/france-monaco/2046548-expansion-pass-sanitaire.html)

FallenPlat Jul 13, 2021 2:12 pm

The French text above very clearly states that both French citizens abroad and foreign tourists who have been fully vaccinated will be treated the same as everyone else in France and, therefore, will be able to circulate freely from the start of when the new measures come into effect. "We will have solved the [technological] problem" by then, says the text. Ok, sure. I think I believe it.

Maybe someone who understands the nuances of French health policy and politics better than I do can chime in here.

ExpatExp Jul 13, 2021 2:20 pm


Originally Posted by FallenPlat (Post 33404729)
The French text above very clearly states that both French citizens abroad and foreign tourists who have been fully vaccinated will be treated the same as everyone else in France and, therefore, will be able to circulate freely from the start of when the new measures come into effect. "We will have solved the [technological] problem" by then, says the text.

Yes, exactly: "…également des touristes vaccinés avec un schéma vaccinal complet". Good news. Now if it can just be implemented successfully…

downinit Jul 13, 2021 8:40 pm


Originally Posted by FallenPlat (Post 33404729)
The French text above very clearly states that both French citizens abroad and foreign tourists who have been fully vaccinated will be treated the same as everyone else in France and, therefore, will be able to circulate freely from the start of when the new measures come into effect. "We will have solved the [technological] problem" by then, says the text

I don't speak French, but the language in the post seems to be aimed squarely at travelers from Europe in countries where the local app does not communicate with the French app. This is all well and good for people with an app from the UK or Germany. However, it certainly does not clarify anything about paper certs like the CDC card. The 'technological' in the quote definitely suggests that the exceptions are for other countries with apps and QR codes.

The French Consulate in London did release a statement stating that the NHS app/certificate would be accepted. Of course, there is no guarantee that this will actually be in effect next week, or ever. And the statement quite clearly specified that only the NHS vaccine app/certificate would be accepted. Again, this does not inspire any confidence for me, coming from the USA.

With tomorrow being Bastille Day, I doubt we will get any clarity any time soon. Unfortunately, tomorrow is also the last day for me to cancel my Disneyland Paris reservation. Being forced to take 3 tests in less than a week despite being fully vaccinated is definitely making me reconsider my plans to visit France.

downinit Jul 13, 2021 9:08 pm

I was finally able to find something that specifically addresses foreigners vaccinated in the USA, and it is not good news. I will leave it up to the experts to determine if this is a trustworthy site and a good translation (Google).


. Hello. I have been vaccinated in the United States (full vaccination since April). How to benefit from the health pass in France? Thank you in advance.

Sandrine
For a complete vaccination carried out abroad, even with a vaccine recognized by France, " if the complete vaccination cycle has been carried out abroad, the certified vaccination certificate cannot be issued ".

At this stage, " only the proofs of a vaccination carried out in France are entered in the Covid Vaccine teleservice and thus make it possible to issue a certified vaccination certificate ".

However, " proof of vaccination issued by third countries can be read if interoperability is effective with the country concerned ". To enter a place where the sanitary pass is required, you will need to bring proof of a negative PCR or antigen test made in France

mk712 Jul 14, 2021 1:25 am


Originally Posted by downinit (Post 33405750)
I was finally able to find something that specifically addresses foreigners vaccinated in the USA, and it is not good news. I will leave it up to the experts to determine if this is a trustworthy site and a good translation (Google).

That's just a news article explaining the situation as of today, which we all know (i.e. app can't be accessed by people vaccinated abroad).


Originally Posted by downinit (Post 33405716)
The 'technological' in the quote definitely suggests that the exceptions are for other countries with apps and QR codes.

Some US states do provide QR codes (e.g. California: https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/) and although it's currently not compatible with the French app, it may very well be in the future. The UK seems to be heading in that direction, with the UK Transport Secretary complaining that the US has a different system in each state.

Completely unrelated but France already handles US driver licenses on a State by State basis: while you can drive around as a tourist with your US driver license regardless of which State issued it, if you actually move to France and want to get a French driver license, you may or may not have to take the driving test again in France depending on which State issued your US driver license.

Because of the urgency of the matter, I'm guessing France will simply recognize the CDC paper cards for the time being, then slowly move to a fully digital system once that becomes possible.

lobo411 Jul 14, 2021 7:03 am

I ended up canceling. My friends made a good point, which was that I was already worried about the situation, and it's impossible to predict what happens next with regards to a fourth wave. Even if everything went fine, I'd still be worried the whole time.

And I didn't have the luxury of being able to wait and see. My flight would have left in four hours. So I canceled. I've rebooked the outbound flight for next June. Let's hope this all gets figured out by then!

Seph87 Jul 14, 2021 7:39 am


Originally Posted by lobo411 (Post 33406492)
I ended up canceling. My friends made a good point, which was that I was already worried about the situation, and it's impossible to predict what happens next with regards to a fourth wave. Even if everything went fine, I'd still be worried the whole time.

And I didn't have the luxury of being able to wait and see. My flight would have left in four hours. So I canceled. I've rebooked the outbound flight for next June. Let's hope this all gets figured out by then!

I hear you, it's a tough call but I think you made the right choice. I'm in a similar situation. I'm a fully-vaccinated American and I have plans to spend a week in Provence in early August and then a week in Italy after that. I'm debating to switch both weeks to be in Italy, since these restrictions would make a vacation in the south of France pointless. I don't want to wait too long since hotels are already filling up and quite expensive.

the188 Jul 14, 2021 7:47 am


Originally Posted by mk712 (Post 33406070)

Because of the urgency of the matter, I'm guessing France will simply recognize the CDC paper cards for the time being, then slowly move to a fully digital system once that becomes possible.

They are never going to be able to prove any of the cards are real, so they should either accept them now or never. Waiting won't change anything. Anyone with a printer can have one in 30 seconds. The anti-vaxxers at my workplace all show off their "CDC cards" to much laughter among each other periodically. The US government has made it very clear they will not allow a data-base to be created. Just limit the CDC card to those with a US passport though, to stop the whole rest of the world from using this back door.

Our trip is in 2 weeks. We pre-booked tickets to a bunch of places to secure times. None of that is refundable.

lobo411 Jul 14, 2021 7:55 am


Originally Posted by Seph87 (Post 33406587)
I hear you, it's a tough call but I think you made the right choice. I'm in a similar situation. I'm a fully-vaccinated American and I have plans to spend a week in Provence in early August and then a week in Italy after that. I'm debating to switch both weeks to be in Italy, since these restrictions would make a vacation in the south of France pointless. I don't want to wait too long since hotels are already filling up and quite expensive.

I hope there's more guidance available by then, and you get to go on your trip.... Whether it's France or Italy! I have friends who just returned from the Milan area and had a great time, fwiw!

kerouac2 Jul 14, 2021 11:59 am

Most of you do not seem to understand the French way of doing things. The announcement was specifically designed to put local residents in a panic and make them sign up to get vaccinated as quickly as possible, and it was a brilliant success. The anti-vaxxers, the semi-doubtful and the merely lazy got the push they needed. Things are back on track for increased vaccination.

Anybody with the least bit of common sense understands immediately that some of the measures announced are not applicable. Cafés and restaurants checking the passes of all of their customers? Cinemas filtering all of the spectators -- keeping in mind that you don't have to just check the pass but also the identity documents of customers. I have already made 3 photocopies of my pass just in case and I could give them to any of my friends of there were no ID checks...

The government has already backpedaled on a few measures, actually a bit faster than I had anticipated -- for example, children from 12 to 17 are exempt until August, and the covid pass becomes valid just one week after the second injection instead of 2 weeks. Other backpedaling will follow, because that's how it's done, and on top of that, the constitutional council will flat out cancel a few things, just like they always do. We won't know until it all goes to parliament next week.

On the down side, non-EU foreign visitors are not at all a priority in France, so you will be last in line.

FallenPlat Jul 14, 2021 12:59 pm

Some of you are very radically misreading this thread. First my rendering of the French statement above is (I believe) complete, definitive and correct. I'm fluent in French. In other words, there's no issue here, at least so far. Second, and not that it matters, a quotation with a word in brackets (anywhere, not just here) means the bracketed language is interpolated; it's NOT part of the original quotation at all. And third, you don't need to email anyone in France to discover that CDC cards don't work with the current setup of the passe sanitaire.That's the whole premise of this thread, after all. Of course they don't work. That's the whole issue.

Put more simply, if you layer what kerouac2 said above on top of ExpatExp's post a few inches higher, and if you ignore everything else above, you have the correct answer ... today. We'll see if the French somehow backtrack negatively. I predict No, but I've been wrong before.

Marambio Jul 14, 2021 1:18 pm

I had lunch at my next-door restaurant of central Paris today and discussed with the manager about this whole passe sanitaire thing. He was more worried about getting waiters and kitchen staff vaccinated than about checking the passe for customers. I asked about "les américains" and he said that he had gotten no instructions on that, but assumed that it was up to each restaurant to decide (and he of course would let them in).

lobo411 Jul 14, 2021 1:58 pm


Originally Posted by kerouac2 (Post 33407343)
The government has already backpedaled on a few measures, actually a bit faster than I had anticipated -- for example, children from 12 to 17 are exempt until August, and the covid pass becomes valid just one week after the second injection instead of 2 weeks. Other backpedaling will follow, because that's how it's done, and on top of that, the constitutional council will flat out cancel a few things, just like they always do. We won't know until it all goes to parliament next week.

On the down side, non-EU foreign visitors are not at all a priority in France, so you will be last in line.

I think you're probably right as long as the current mini-surge doesn't turn into a 4th wave. Probably a CDC card will be fine, and it'll be just a minor hassle. But I don't think this won't be clarified for a relatively long time (a couple of weeks). If the government tells the world that all they need to avoid the restrictions is an easily-forged CDC card, then the anti-vaxxers are going to cancel their vaccine appointments and start buying forged cards.

And if a 4th wave does happen, then anything is possible.

kerouac2 Jul 14, 2021 2:01 pm

And the fine to restauranteurs is something like 2000 euros in case of a spot check. (135 euros for the customer)

Goldorak Jul 14, 2021 2:10 pm


Originally Posted by kerouac2 (Post 33407726)
And the fine to restauranteurs is something like 2000 euros in case of a spot check. (135 euros for the customer)

Not really 2000 : it's 45.000 !!


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