Narrowbody flights to China?
Jun 22, 2019, 5:00 am
#61
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,598
There are basically two very different USA Fist Class products available (the main concept is pretty much the same from airliner to airliner):
The standard First is based on recliner seats, similar you can find onboard Aeroflot and Turkish business class these days. I would describe that more like premium economy, definitely not First. This product is available on most narrow body jets (A320/737/CRJ). If you have international connection on business class, your domestic sector is in most cases in standard First (ie. "business class")
The second option is so called Transcon First, which is available on selected routes from east to west coast v.v. (NYC/SFO/LAX). My experience on this is based on a dozen AA flights between SFO and JFK, both First and Business. This product on AA A321T includes proper First class (1x1) and Business class (2x2) lie-flat seats, also MCE and MC (3x3). There are lots of videos and photos available. There are similar narrow body products on other US airliners as well.
IF AY plans to use narrow bodies on longer routes and want to offer a proper business class product, I see no other options than the AA style business class seating ie. 2x2 config (no free middle seats).
The standard First is based on recliner seats, similar you can find onboard Aeroflot and Turkish business class these days. I would describe that more like premium economy, definitely not First. This product is available on most narrow body jets (A320/737/CRJ). If you have international connection on business class, your domestic sector is in most cases in standard First (ie. "business class")
The second option is so called Transcon First, which is available on selected routes from east to west coast v.v. (NYC/SFO/LAX). My experience on this is based on a dozen AA flights between SFO and JFK, both First and Business. This product on AA A321T includes proper First class (1x1) and Business class (2x2) lie-flat seats, also MCE and MC (3x3). There are lots of videos and photos available. There are similar narrow body products on other US airliners as well.
IF AY plans to use narrow bodies on longer routes and want to offer a proper business class product, I see no other options than the AA style business class seating ie. 2x2 config (no free middle seats).
No mid-galley so I suppose it must be disturbing.
Jun 22, 2019, 5:52 am
#62
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Jun 22, 2019, 6:18 am
#63
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I got to choose a lie-flat business seat on a Y ticket on a BOS-JFK flight once, the seat itself is very comfortable, first is even nicer. I mean QR flies A320s with lie flat seats to HEL and those are always ok, the cabin on AA planes is even less dense since F is 1-1 seating..
Jun 22, 2019, 12:40 pm
#64
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Austin
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I have made my comments on the possible configuration of the AA 321XLR in their forum. I think that to be competitive, they will offer 12-16 lie flat 1-1 F/J seats, 8 PE seats, 12-16 MCE and rest regular Y. Mind you these planes will be able to fly routes of 10+ hours. They are also considered a direct replacement of the old 757 single aisle, with further range and way lower fuel burn.
If AY were to go choose this plane for thin routes, I suspect they will offer a proper lie flat seat configuration for J, probably throw in some PE as they have announced it as a future option on other planes. Otherwise they will not be competitive for connecting business flyers using the benefits of HEL to Asia routes.
Jun 22, 2019, 12:58 pm
#65
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,598
I got to choose a lie-flat business seat on a Y ticket on a BOS-JFK flight once, the seat itself is very comfortable, first is even nicer. I mean QR flies A320s with lie flat seats to HEL and those are always ok, the cabin on AA planes is even less dense since F is 1-1 seating..
Well, better than a regular 321, such as what AY currently flies. Since they are specifically configured for premium routes for AA, they are quite low density. F is 1-1, J is 2-2, and they throw in some MCE (extra leg room) rest is Y.
I have made my comments on the possible configuration of the AA 321XLR in their forum. I think that to be competitive, they will offer 12-16 lie flat 1-1 F/J seats, 8 PE seats, 12-16 MCE and rest regular Y. Mind you these planes will be able to fly routes of 10+ hours. They are also considered a direct replacement of the old 757 single aisle, with further range and way lower fuel burn.
If AY were to go choose this plane for thin routes, I suspect they will offer a proper lie flat seat configuration for J, probably throw in some PE as they have announced it as a future option on other planes. Otherwise they will not be competitive for connecting business flyers using the benefits of HEL to Asia routes.
I have made my comments on the possible configuration of the AA 321XLR in their forum. I think that to be competitive, they will offer 12-16 lie flat 1-1 F/J seats, 8 PE seats, 12-16 MCE and rest regular Y. Mind you these planes will be able to fly routes of 10+ hours. They are also considered a direct replacement of the old 757 single aisle, with further range and way lower fuel burn.
If AY were to go choose this plane for thin routes, I suspect they will offer a proper lie flat seat configuration for J, probably throw in some PE as they have announced it as a future option on other planes. Otherwise they will not be competitive for connecting business flyers using the benefits of HEL to Asia routes.
Lets put my question in another way
Assuming that the service and seat is the same on a widebody plane and a 321LXR, would the mere difference of single-aisle on A321 vs double-aisle(&mid-galleys) on widebodies make you choose away from 321 metal, if you had a choice of aircraft and you hate too heavy aisle traffic (needing to give way to other pax and moving FAs) during inflight?
Jun 22, 2019, 1:24 pm
#66
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Austin
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Thanks for the answers but they all lose my point.
Lets put my question in another way
Assuming that the service and seat is the same on a widebody plane and a 321LXR, would the mere difference of single-aisle on A321 vs double-aisle(&mid-galleys) on widebodies make you choose away from 321 metal, if you had a choice of aircraft and you hate too heavy aisle traffic (needing to give way to other pax and moving FAs) during inflight?
On the AA 321T, service for F and J is done from the front and center galleys, the Y service from a rear galley so this minimizes long periods of trolleys in the aisles. Rest rooms are also available front, center and the rear of the plane. Like I said, it mitigates some issues, but give me A380, A350, A330, B777, or a B787 any day!
From Seatguru.com:
Jun 22, 2019, 1:32 pm
#67
Moderator, Finnair
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Just like you say, AA has them configured for premium routes. They are an airline of size and can afford to subdivide their fleet and have planes optimised for such use.
For AY, they are not catering to a premium market in general and their thin routes I imagine are not premium at all. So as much as I'd love to see anything remotely like the AA config, I don't think AY has any use for it.
Also, Finnair is such a small airline, so I think they wouldn't get a sub-fleet of planes that only works in fringe operations. They would get a plane that can work both longhaul and shorthaul and thus have a medium haul J cabin and a rather large Y cabin.
Jun 22, 2019, 1:39 pm
#68
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Austin
Programs: AA EXP +2MM- LT PLT! HH Diamond
Posts: 6,087
If seatmaps are to be trusted, these are just 102 seats in total, of which only 36 seats in real Y.
Just like you say, AA has them configured for premium routes. They are an airline of size and can afford to subdevide their fleet and have planes optimised for such use.
For AY, they are not catering to a premium market in general and their thin routes I imagine are not premium at all. So as much as I'd love to see anything remotely like the AA config, I don't think AY has any use for it.
Also, Finnair is such a small airline, so I think they wouldn't get a sub-fleet of planes that only works in fringe operations. They would get a plane that can work both longhaul and shorthaul and thus have a medium haul J cabin and a rather large Y cabin.
Just like you say, AA has them configured for premium routes. They are an airline of size and can afford to subdevide their fleet and have planes optimised for such use.
For AY, they are not catering to a premium market in general and their thin routes I imagine are not premium at all. So as much as I'd love to see anything remotely like the AA config, I don't think AY has any use for it.
Also, Finnair is such a small airline, so I think they wouldn't get a sub-fleet of planes that only works in fringe operations. They would get a plane that can work both longhaul and shorthaul and thus have a medium haul J cabin and a rather large Y cabin.
Jun 22, 2019, 2:42 pm
#69
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,598
Totally prefer a wide body, but I guess my point is, it's not going to be as bad as a 3-3 config down the whole aircraft. I've flown the 321T Transcon a few times in J, and my only complaint is not being able get up an walk around a little bit, or stretch out around the galleys when I'm not interrupting service.
On the AA 321T, service for F and J is done from the front and center galleys, the Y service from a rear galley so this minimizes long periods of trolleys in the aisles. Rest rooms are also available front, center and the rear of the plane. Like I said, it mitigates some issues, but give me A380, A350, A330, B777, or a B787 any day!
From Seatguru.com:
On the AA 321T, service for F and J is done from the front and center galleys, the Y service from a rear galley so this minimizes long periods of trolleys in the aisles. Rest rooms are also available front, center and the rear of the plane. Like I said, it mitigates some issues, but give me A380, A350, A330, B777, or a B787 any day!
From Seatguru.com:
Then, sounds not to hope for too much re AY possible version of bird
if ever launched
Jun 22, 2019, 3:31 pm
#70
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Posts: 8,749
Thanks for the answers but they all lose my point.
Lets put my question in another way
Assuming that the service and seat is the same on a widebody plane and a 321LXR, would the mere difference of single-aisle on A321 vs double-aisle(&mid-galleys) on widebodies make you choose away from 321 metal, if you had a choice of aircraft and you hate too heavy aisle traffic (needing to give way to other pax and moving FAs) during inflight?
Assuming that the service and seat is the same on a widebody plane and a 321LXR, would the mere difference of single-aisle on A321 vs double-aisle(&mid-galleys) on widebodies make you choose away from 321 metal, if you had a choice of aircraft and you hate too heavy aisle traffic (needing to give way to other pax and moving FAs) during inflight?
If both flights, narrowbody and widebody, were sold at the same price and the schedules were equally good, then I'd choose the widebody.