ffay005

According to Vauramo, interviewed by the South China Morning Post, AY is looking at employing narrowbodies on some Chinese routes: https://m-scmp-com.cdn.ampproject.or...ns-china?amp=1

They also mention the possibility of all-Y flights, which implies the use of their current A32Bs instead of acquiring new planes or refurbishing current A32Bs. Does anyone know what the range of AY A32Bs is?

I wonder if they can really make money with this. If the aim is to fill the planes with Chinese tourists who pay very little, then surely Chinese carriers can do it more profitably. In the current pattern, AY gets revenue from cargo (for which there is little room on a narrowbody) and from J pax (and seemingly they don't intend to have J on these flights at all).

ffay005

Maybe this is what Vauramo meant: A321LR with a range of 7400 km. https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news...or-airlin.html

240 pax in all-Y. I would be surprised, though, if AY configured them this way. Wouldn't it make sense to have a small J cabin of maybe only 8 seats? After all, airlines make a ot more money per sqft or kg in J than in Y.

r2d2

My bet is that with A321LR and Boeing 737 MAX we are going to see a lot of the shorter long-hauls to be operated with narrowbodies. The operational cost per seat is so much lower with the narrowbodies that only slot restrictions would justify widebodies on routes where a narrowbody has sufficient range. Good for Finnair that they are investigating the opportunities they could have with the narrowbody long-haul revolution. Not only could it mean new destinations in China but also increased frequencies to the existing destinations - and why not also new destinations in North America. YYZ, YUL, BOS, EWR, PHL and IAD would be within the range of an A321LR.

I agree that if AY would order new planes it would make sense to have a two-class configuration. Not only do J passengers bring in more money but having less passengers onboard also affects the range, which is critical with narrowbodies. The reason why AY could go with a one-class configuration could be that they could lease A321LR's ordered by Norwegian, which would be available much faster than a completely new order.

OH-LGG

OH- LZH - LZL have 5741 km.

ffay005

Thanks! That's DEL and not much further.

intuition

A HEL-URC could easily be served by narrow-body and fit well into a "central asia strategy" with TSE as example.
No major airline flies URC. OW has no flights, Star has connecting flights via east asia.

That said, a long-haul or even medium-haul in narrowbody without J class and proper seats/space is not for me.

haapalainen

I think this is a very interesting prospect for Finnair. A long-haul narrowbody could bring a number of new destinations to the route map not only in China but India, Kazakstan, Middle East and even USA. For flights up to 7h they could even try to do it by scheduling departures in the midnight bank with arrival at HEL next afternoon. For example for a 6,5h flight (all times Finnish time for simplicity):

HEL-XXX 23.50-6.20
XXX-HEL 7.20-13.50

This allows the aircraft to do even a shorthaul roundtrip in between the longhauls and should do wonders for aircraft utilisation. They could of course do this already to for example Urumqi which is similar distance to HEL as DXB and thus reachable by current A321. Maybe in couple of years as the new terminal extension is finished

deissi

AY already utilizes nearly all the Trans-Siberian overflight permits it has. It would therefore seem strange if they chose to use the remaining available Siberian slots for narrowbody flights. I must, however, admit that I have no clue as to how easy or difficult it is to get additional permits.

Clydez

If Finnair can have a proper Premium Economy, I dont mind a mid haul with it.

SPBanker

intuition

This was also my initial thought. Why use the overfly rights for anything else than the Asian strategy?
But IRL we've not seen that many new Asian destinations and a lot of non-strategy actions. (NA ASK +100% last 4 years, Asia ASK +30% same timeframe, rough numbers) so maybe there are other factors involved.

And unused rights are surely not making any money.

FlyingFinn

Interesting, I didn't know those permits allowed only a certain number of flights. I always thought it was a binary kind of a thing - you either had it or not.

deissi

If I recall correctly, OH-LGG noted in another thread that all but two slots will be utilized by AY in the upcoming winter schedule. Considering that AY will get additional A350s, it seems likely that the existing slots will be fully utilized by widebodies within the next few years.

OH-LGG

These Asia narrow body plans and visions must be forecasted 5-10 years ahead. They must consider it now due to order and plans of future narrow body fleet.

AY's narrowbody traffic to China is not going to start next spring.

ffay005

Flying to India, the routing does go over Russian airspace but it's not exactly trans-Siberian. Are these flights incuded in the overfly quota or not?

A321LR would give AY great opportunities in India, and with a suitable schedule, good connecting opportunities between East Coast USA and India.