Jan 23, 2019, 9:42 am
Last edit by: AhogZ
This Wikipost is community-maintained and For Information Only. Note that not all information may be up to date and should be used at your own risk.
Safe - Immediate turnaround is easy, i.e. according to experience it is possible to reach departure gate quickly and without extra security check when doing same plane turnaround.
Intermediate - Immediate turnaround is doable, but requires e.g. extra security check.
Risky - Immediate turnaround not recommended. (See notes.)
TO KEEP THE WIKI AS COHERENT AS POSSIBLE, PLEASE USE "SAFE", "INTERMEDIATE" OR "RISKY" APPROPRIATELY! (I.e. no "Safe" for stations that require any kind of security or transfer check, not to mention going landside, etc.)
Immediate turnaround information for European AY destinations:
ACE: ?
AGP: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.) Details here from August 2022
ALC: Intermediate, Arrivals pour from jetbridge to "funnel pathway" which takes people to baggage claim, but one can look for "Transfer" signage and take escalator up to the gate area. No checkpoints.
AMS: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
ARN: Safe / Intermediate (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate, except gate 62 arrival pours to baggage claim. ATR flights may be riskier if one ends up with a bus gate.)
ATH: Intermediate at best
AYT: ?
BCN: No direct turnarounds due to operated by IB.
BER: ?
BGO: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
BLL: ?
BMA: Safe (Transfer door is before going to the terminal exit and boarding will not start before the incoming plane is empty.)
BRU: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
BUD: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
CDG: ?
CFU: ?
CHQ: Risky (To landside first and security needed. Long lines possibile.)
CPH: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
CTA: ?
DBV: ?
DUB: ?
DUS: ?
EDI: ? (Security check required for sure.)
FCO: Intermediate / Risky. Bus transportation can cause long walks.
FNC: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight. Mobile BP not available, obtain a BP from HEL.)
FRA: Safe (Even with the bus from stand you can make it.)
FUE: ?
GDN: Risky (Providing it is ATR by Norra, apron position, walking / bussing to the arrivals, queue security (can be very long), sprint upstairs to the gate.)
GOT: Safe / Intermediate(At least on tube arrival, after exit from the tube to the terminal area, turn around and you are at the departure gate. No info on possible bus gates though.)
GVA: ?
GZP: ?
HAJ: Safe (Arrival at departure gate)
HAM: ?
HER: ?
IBZ: ?
INN: Intermediate / Risky (To landside first and then security. No airside transit.)
IVL: Safe, arrivals pour into the gate area.
JOE: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight.)
JSI: ?
JTR: ?
JYV: ?
KAJ: ?
KAO: ?
KEF: ?
KEM: ?
KGS: ?
KOK: ?
KRK: Intermediate (AY rarely has a jetty position so bus, arrivals then go upstairs to departures for security, there is a fast track for OW elites - not well signposted - separate B/Pass scanner to the left)
KTT: ?
KUO: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight.)
LHR: Intermediate (Need to go via Flight Connections to reclear security, which may take time depending on the time of the day.)
LIS: ?
LIN: Safe, arrivals pour into departures.
LJU: ?
LPA: ?
LYS: ?
MAD: No direct turnarounds due to operated by IB.
MAH: ?
MAN: Intermediate/Risky, requires reclearing security.
MHQ: ?
MSQ: ?
MUC: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
MXP: Intermediate / Risky (Arrivals come into a different floor, transfer requires walking through a transfer point and distances are quite long.)
NAP: ?
NCE: ?
OSL: Safe / Intermediate (D gates pours directly to departures. E gates also pours to departure gate, follow transit arrow, automatic gate door will open during "normal" hours. IF door doesn't open go upstairs try the transfer security. Very rare reports of stand arrival with bus to exit, but should still be doable, security is usually fast and short distances.)
OUL: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
PFO: ?
PMI: ?
PRG: Safe (From arrivals walk up to departures to departure gate.)
PVK: ?
RHO: Risky (Arrivals pour to baggage claim, security check usually has long lines before you get to the departure hall.)
RIX: Risky. After deplaning, you walk to the terminal, but boarding is done with buses. My flight was delayed, and they started boarding before the plane was even there.
RMI: ?
RVN: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight.)
SPU: ?
SZG: ?
TAY: ?
TFS: ?
TLL: Risky (May have a remote stand arrival, when departing flight has been boarded into a bus with boarding gate already closed.)
TLV: ?
TOS: ?
UME: ?
VAA: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight.)
VBY: ?
VCE: ?
VIE: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
VNO: Risky. (Departing pax board bus when arriving pax still deplaning. Connection corridor available but not sure how straightforward it is).
VRN: ?
WAW: Safe (Arrivals pour to departure gate.)
ZRH: Safe (When exiting the bridge, you are under the gates and there are inclined speedwalks that bring back to the gates upstairs.)
Immediate turnaround information for selected longhaul AY destinations:
DEL: Intermediate (There's plenty of time for the obligatory visit to the transit desk and security. However, you'll need a self-printed visa confirmation to show the gate agent at HEL.)
DOH: ?
DXB: Intermediate (Follow "connections" to security downstairs and after that go to transfer desk if needed.)
JFK: Intermediate (Generous time with the new schedule, but you'll need to clear US immigration so ESTA or visa is needed.)
NRT: Intermediate (OLCI and mobile BP works, no need to go landside. There's transfer security, though.)
Safe - Immediate turnaround is easy, i.e. according to experience it is possible to reach departure gate quickly and without extra security check when doing same plane turnaround.
Intermediate - Immediate turnaround is doable, but requires e.g. extra security check.
Risky - Immediate turnaround not recommended. (See notes.)
TO KEEP THE WIKI AS COHERENT AS POSSIBLE, PLEASE USE "SAFE", "INTERMEDIATE" OR "RISKY" APPROPRIATELY! (I.e. no "Safe" for stations that require any kind of security or transfer check, not to mention going landside, etc.)
Immediate turnaround information for European AY destinations:
ACE: ?
AGP: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.) Details here from August 2022
ALC: Intermediate, Arrivals pour from jetbridge to "funnel pathway" which takes people to baggage claim, but one can look for "Transfer" signage and take escalator up to the gate area. No checkpoints.
AMS: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
ARN: Safe / Intermediate (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate, except gate 62 arrival pours to baggage claim. ATR flights may be riskier if one ends up with a bus gate.)
ATH: Intermediate at best
AYT: ?
BCN: No direct turnarounds due to operated by IB.
BER: ?
BGO: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
BLL: ?
BMA: Safe (Transfer door is before going to the terminal exit and boarding will not start before the incoming plane is empty.)
BRU: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
BUD: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
CDG: ?
CFU: ?
CHQ: Risky (To landside first and security needed. Long lines possibile.)
CPH: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
CTA: ?
DBV: ?
DUB: ?
DUS: ?
EDI: ? (Security check required for sure.)
FCO: Intermediate / Risky. Bus transportation can cause long walks.
FNC: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight. Mobile BP not available, obtain a BP from HEL.)
FRA: Safe (Even with the bus from stand you can make it.)
FUE: ?
GDN: Risky (Providing it is ATR by Norra, apron position, walking / bussing to the arrivals, queue security (can be very long), sprint upstairs to the gate.)
GOT: Safe / Intermediate(At least on tube arrival, after exit from the tube to the terminal area, turn around and you are at the departure gate. No info on possible bus gates though.)
GVA: ?
GZP: ?
HAJ: Safe (Arrival at departure gate)
HAM: ?
HER: ?
IBZ: ?
INN: Intermediate / Risky (To landside first and then security. No airside transit.)
IVL: Safe, arrivals pour into the gate area.
JOE: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight.)
JSI: ?
JTR: ?
JYV: ?
KAJ: ?
KAO: ?
KEF: ?
KEM: ?
KGS: ?
KOK: ?
KRK: Intermediate (AY rarely has a jetty position so bus, arrivals then go upstairs to departures for security, there is a fast track for OW elites - not well signposted - separate B/Pass scanner to the left)
KTT: ?
KUO: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight.)
LHR: Intermediate (Need to go via Flight Connections to reclear security, which may take time depending on the time of the day.)
LIS: ?
LIN: Safe, arrivals pour into departures.
LJU: ?
LPA: ?
LYS: ?
MAD: No direct turnarounds due to operated by IB.
MAH: ?
MAN: Intermediate/Risky, requires reclearing security.
MHQ: ?
MSQ: ?
MUC: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
MXP: Intermediate / Risky (Arrivals come into a different floor, transfer requires walking through a transfer point and distances are quite long.)
NAP: ?
NCE: ?
OSL: Safe / Intermediate (D gates pours directly to departures. E gates also pours to departure gate, follow transit arrow, automatic gate door will open during "normal" hours. IF door doesn't open go upstairs try the transfer security. Very rare reports of stand arrival with bus to exit, but should still be doable, security is usually fast and short distances.)
OUL: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
PFO: ?
PMI: ?
PRG: Safe (From arrivals walk up to departures to departure gate.)
PVK: ?
RHO: Risky (Arrivals pour to baggage claim, security check usually has long lines before you get to the departure hall.)
RIX: Risky. After deplaning, you walk to the terminal, but boarding is done with buses. My flight was delayed, and they started boarding before the plane was even there.
RMI: ?
RVN: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight.)
SPU: ?
SZG: ?
TAY: ?
TFS: ?
TLL: Risky (May have a remote stand arrival, when departing flight has been boarded into a bus with boarding gate already closed.)
TLV: ?
TOS: ?
UME: ?
VAA: Intermediate (Exit via baggage claim and reclear security, but should be doable if you exit among the first from the inbound flight.)
VBY: ?
VCE: ?
VIE: Safe (Arrivals pour directly to departure gate.)
VNO: Risky. (Departing pax board bus when arriving pax still deplaning. Connection corridor available but not sure how straightforward it is).
VRN: ?
WAW: Safe (Arrivals pour to departure gate.)
ZRH: Safe (When exiting the bridge, you are under the gates and there are inclined speedwalks that bring back to the gates upstairs.)
Immediate turnaround information for selected longhaul AY destinations:
DEL: Intermediate (There's plenty of time for the obligatory visit to the transit desk and security. However, you'll need a self-printed visa confirmation to show the gate agent at HEL.)
DOH: ?
DXB: Intermediate (Follow "connections" to security downstairs and after that go to transfer desk if needed.)
JFK: Intermediate (Generous time with the new schedule, but you'll need to clear US immigration so ESTA or visa is needed.)
NRT: Intermediate (OLCI and mobile BP works, no need to go landside. There's transfer security, though.)
Ahoy, mileage runners! (Incl. immediate turnarounds)
Apr 27, 2018, 8:45 am
#1126
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,189
Yup, cabin full of DYKWIAs :-)
(Oh I see! May 12 is your target date to become lymo)
Oddly, I kind of finding myself agreeing with this. (I realise I've changed position on this).
Not becasue of the lumotics in general but there is something "wrong" when short haul pricing is under heavy pressure and they lower the segment threshold as a response.
Also the whole issue where frequent segment flyers has better "ROI" and use up a lot of resources while the longhaul J flyer only gets perks s/he already pays for through ticket.
(Oh I see! May 12 is your target date to become lymo)
Not becasue of the lumotics in general but there is something "wrong" when short haul pricing is under heavy pressure and they lower the segment threshold as a response.
Also the whole issue where frequent segment flyers has better "ROI" and use up a lot of resources while the longhaul J flyer only gets perks s/he already pays for through ticket.
Apr 27, 2018, 11:22 am
#1127
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Helsinki
Programs: AY Platinum, IHG Gold, Diners
Posts: 1,277
And as I only fly shorthaul, but for work and not cheap tickets, I disagree with removal of segment qualification. The second they do that, I am back to SK. I would actually not mind a revenue-based program That seems most fair to me.
I’m happy with the program as it is.
I’m happy with the program as it is.
Apr 27, 2018, 12:56 pm
#1128
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,610
I think AY+ is good as is now.
I bet most of savvy frequenters who care about their benefits would switch to SK (TMP OUL TKU VAA. HEL fliers too) or some HEL based to other OW programs, if AY ditched the segment qual.
No reason to be jealous
Apr 27, 2018, 2:06 pm
#1129
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,189
I am not actively pushing for a program change. All I am saying is that it is getting more and more clear to me that there is something wrong with the segment qualification.
They lowered the plat qualification from 92 to 76. The old level was pretty much exactly one shorthaul return every working week and now you only need 3 trips a month. They didn't change the points threshold at all. So why was that a reasonable change?
The lumo seg qualification is 2x the plat, while the points qualification is 3x. Reasonable?
I'm not going to dwell on how the program is mostly beneficial to the shorthauler, but be aware that not one single perk introduced during the last 10 years have been aimed at my type of traveller (J pax). Not one.
Instead we are given a sub-par product, with broken seats/wifi and no legroom. The meals have gone downhill, especially on shorthaul. We are allowed to stand in the lounge as the golds are flooding it and you need to be lumo to get a seat. Onboard there is no space for the 2 carry-on we pay for, since Y-travellers are getting boarding group 1 and rush onboard to dump their oversized bags in the business cabin. We get to look sloppy and wrinkled at our meetings, since Finnair removed all wardrobes in J cabin, in order to be able to pay for the Y perks.
All this while the Y flyer is getting free drinks, newspapers, seat selection, "premium" lounge access, status recognition, comfort cabin, ... , ...
And Uleåborg and Tukholma are apparently generating new lumos by the hour.
It is also getting more and more clear to me that the revenue J pax is the true idiot.
They lowered the plat qualification from 92 to 76. The old level was pretty much exactly one shorthaul return every working week and now you only need 3 trips a month. They didn't change the points threshold at all. So why was that a reasonable change?
The lumo seg qualification is 2x the plat, while the points qualification is 3x. Reasonable?
I'm not going to dwell on how the program is mostly beneficial to the shorthauler, but be aware that not one single perk introduced during the last 10 years have been aimed at my type of traveller (J pax). Not one.
Instead we are given a sub-par product, with broken seats/wifi and no legroom. The meals have gone downhill, especially on shorthaul. We are allowed to stand in the lounge as the golds are flooding it and you need to be lumo to get a seat. Onboard there is no space for the 2 carry-on we pay for, since Y-travellers are getting boarding group 1 and rush onboard to dump their oversized bags in the business cabin. We get to look sloppy and wrinkled at our meetings, since Finnair removed all wardrobes in J cabin, in order to be able to pay for the Y perks.
All this while the Y flyer is getting free drinks, newspapers, seat selection, "premium" lounge access, status recognition, comfort cabin, ... , ...
And Uleåborg and Tukholma are apparently generating new lumos by the hour.
It is also getting more and more clear to me that the revenue J pax is the true idiot.
Last edited by intuition; Apr 27, 2018 at 2:13 pm
Apr 27, 2018, 2:12 pm
#1130
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,773
I don't think they'll get rid of the segment qualification. If you check this out, you'll see that the segment pax don't create that many costs but they still bring revenue: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29284795-post32.html
I suppose the prices that business travellers pay for their ARN and OUL runs are well above the €80 W offers.
I suppose the prices that business travellers pay for their ARN and OUL runs are well above the €80 W offers.
Apr 27, 2018, 2:20 pm
#1131
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,189
I disagree.
Someone who flies 76 segments is using lounge 76 times, getting exit row/comfort/desired seat free of charge 76 times, leniency towards non-compliance to carry-on rules 76 times, drinks 76 times and so on.
The elite by segment is generating cost (or avoiding revenue) to the same amount as the revenue J pax, who pays for all this, regardless of tier on the card. But the Y travellers are most certainly not paying 600€ for a short haul trip.
Someone who flies 76 segments is using lounge 76 times, getting exit row/comfort/desired seat free of charge 76 times, leniency towards non-compliance to carry-on rules 76 times, drinks 76 times and so on.
The elite by segment is generating cost (or avoiding revenue) to the same amount as the revenue J pax, who pays for all this, regardless of tier on the card. But the Y travellers are most certainly not paying 600€ for a short haul trip.
Apr 27, 2018, 2:28 pm
#1132
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,773
Someone flying HEL-OUL is using lounge 37 times as there is no lounge in OUL, and since nobody pays for seat assignments on such short flights anyway, AY won't lose real cash even if those Platskus sit in the exit row for free (applies to OUL and ARN, and I suppose, to most Euro flights, too).
Apr 27, 2018, 3:25 pm
#1133
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,270
Going revenue based would get my vote instantly.
Last edited by NoWindowSeat; Apr 27, 2018 at 3:32 pm
Apr 27, 2018, 4:22 pm
#1134
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY GOLD, HH GOLD
Posts: 411
Once again we go in to this debate 
only thing I'm interested in is how much OWN money are people spending.
Ranting, feeling entitled or complaining when you're travelling on someone else's dime is just silly.
only thing I'm interested in is how much OWN money are people spending.Ranting, feeling entitled or complaining when you're travelling on someone else's dime is just silly.
Apr 27, 2018, 5:40 pm
#1135
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: HEL
Programs: SPG LTP, hotels, OWE, STE+, *G, Octopus
Posts: 5,793
If you need to be in ARN on a suitable schedule 3-7 days before, you'll easily pay 200€ for a return ticket on average and at 38 returns, meaning ~7600€.
A leisure plat renewing status Northern Europe-Asia can requalify for 3.33 flights (45k/return), let's round it up to 4 for fun at e.g. 1400€/ticket, meaning ~5600€.
These are different extremes and use cases, but who's to really say who's more valuable than the other?
A leisure plat renewing status Northern Europe-Asia can requalify for 3.33 flights (45k/return), let's round it up to 4 for fun at e.g. 1400€/ticket, meaning ~5600€.
These are different extremes and use cases, but who's to really say who's more valuable than the other?
Apr 27, 2018, 7:13 pm
#1136
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat Lumo
Posts: 1,519
As an idiot traveller, I do find Platsku/OWE to be good value. Lumo not so sure, that's why I'm waiting for offers for the first time...
Apr 27, 2018, 11:10 pm
#1137
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Helsinki
Programs: AY Platinum, IHG Gold, Diners
Posts: 1,277
150k points would require 120 value intra-Nordic trips for someone already plat. I would say the majority of travellers who fly such amounts pay on average more than 100€ per segment. So that would then require a 12.000€ cost for becoming plat. If we are to continue silly comparisons, you can get ex-ARN round-trips in C for less than 2000€. That’s 45k points if already plat. 3 of those and exchange the rest of the points, you have requalified for 6.000€. Is that fair?
Lets remember, the vast mjority of Finnair’s, or any other airlines’, customers do not do aegment runs or mileage runs to reach some new shiny cards. They fly because they have to, and many see a shiny card as an indication that there is something wong in their life.
The definition of a premium traveller is probably not based on a single trip, i.e. flying in Y or J or F. It is what type of a customer you are. I can see that you are disappointed if you only fly J. But for those who take a vacation in Y, the airline wants to give you the same experience as much as possible for you and possibly your family. You don’t want to ruin the impression, as that may affect your business travel choices. Therefore you, as a status passenger, get upgrade vouchers, lounge access etc not only for yourself but also your family. Giveaway gold cards can be debated, but I don’t think they are the problem of crowded lounges.
Lets also not confuse a FFP with the airline itself. These are two different things. AY Plus shouldn’t be blamed if Finnair has poor seats or service on their flights.
What should the (paid) longhaul J platinum/emerald member then get, that would make business sense? Another lounge? Hardly wise from a cost-efficiency point of view. How many such passengers would Finnair have daily flying from or via HEL? 50, departing at different points in time? Driver service from home to the airport? Again, costs a lot of money. Here Finnair should probably offer this for points, where there would be a discount. Category zero prio boarding, i.e. before anyone else? Fine by me, I would imagine most experienced longhaul J fliers want to board as late as possible. More points? Why? Introduction of F class? Again, probably not a good business case.
I think the problem is pretty much the same for all airlines. What to offer the really top fliers, that makes sense also from a cost perspective? Lumo is a good step, and I would expect it to develop over the years. Again, the number of fliers who reach that voluntarily, with cheap Oulu or Stockholm tickets, or with cheap business fares must be limited. Finnair is a small airline, with a very sensitive business. They simply can’t offer Concorde lounges or First Class Terminals. Not enough passengers, not enough space at airport, not wise from a cost point of view. Please suggest improvements to Finnair that make sense for a broad enough group of passengers and that also makes sense from a cost perspective, and I am sure Finnair will listen and consider it! They are professionals, not a bunch of kids who decided to run an airline.
Lets remember, the vast mjority of Finnair’s, or any other airlines’, customers do not do aegment runs or mileage runs to reach some new shiny cards. They fly because they have to, and many see a shiny card as an indication that there is something wong in their life.
The definition of a premium traveller is probably not based on a single trip, i.e. flying in Y or J or F. It is what type of a customer you are. I can see that you are disappointed if you only fly J. But for those who take a vacation in Y, the airline wants to give you the same experience as much as possible for you and possibly your family. You don’t want to ruin the impression, as that may affect your business travel choices. Therefore you, as a status passenger, get upgrade vouchers, lounge access etc not only for yourself but also your family. Giveaway gold cards can be debated, but I don’t think they are the problem of crowded lounges.
Lets also not confuse a FFP with the airline itself. These are two different things. AY Plus shouldn’t be blamed if Finnair has poor seats or service on their flights.
What should the (paid) longhaul J platinum/emerald member then get, that would make business sense? Another lounge? Hardly wise from a cost-efficiency point of view. How many such passengers would Finnair have daily flying from or via HEL? 50, departing at different points in time? Driver service from home to the airport? Again, costs a lot of money. Here Finnair should probably offer this for points, where there would be a discount. Category zero prio boarding, i.e. before anyone else? Fine by me, I would imagine most experienced longhaul J fliers want to board as late as possible. More points? Why? Introduction of F class? Again, probably not a good business case.
I think the problem is pretty much the same for all airlines. What to offer the really top fliers, that makes sense also from a cost perspective? Lumo is a good step, and I would expect it to develop over the years. Again, the number of fliers who reach that voluntarily, with cheap Oulu or Stockholm tickets, or with cheap business fares must be limited. Finnair is a small airline, with a very sensitive business. They simply can’t offer Concorde lounges or First Class Terminals. Not enough passengers, not enough space at airport, not wise from a cost point of view. Please suggest improvements to Finnair that make sense for a broad enough group of passengers and that also makes sense from a cost perspective, and I am sure Finnair will listen and consider it! They are professionals, not a bunch of kids who decided to run an airline.
Apr 28, 2018, 1:24 am
#1138
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat, ALL Plat, Scandic L2
Posts: 3,623
I have not (re)qualified on segments since the ticket types (Value FTW!) were introduced. But I do understand the justification for segment thresholds for frequent short-haul fliers. And many of those probably (have their employer) pay big monies for last-minute tickets.
And now that Silver no longer grants any lounge access, I don't think that segment fliers are much of a problem. And if they are a problem anyway, it affects mostly the Schengen lounge.
The lounge capacity (and generally, Helsinki airport) just has not been keeping up with the traffic increase. It's pointless to blame fliers with different pattern than one's own for this. It is also silly to expect AY+ to become more stringent - that just makes it less appealing than other OW or non-OW programs.
And now that Silver no longer grants any lounge access, I don't think that segment fliers are much of a problem. And if they are a problem anyway, it affects mostly the Schengen lounge.
The lounge capacity (and generally, Helsinki airport) just has not been keeping up with the traffic increase. It's pointless to blame fliers with different pattern than one's own for this. It is also silly to expect AY+ to become more stringent - that just makes it less appealing than other OW or non-OW programs.
Apr 28, 2018, 2:07 am
#1139
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,270
Very good posts and thought through arguments from many posters. I am not blaming any type of FF, or saying one type is better than any other, just expressing my opinions in a direct manner to keep discussion going from all angles, which is the whole idea of FT. We are not all the same and that's why the game is so interesting.
What comes to revenue based model, I would support that from my own wallet's perspective, nothing to do with any 3rd party paying for my travels. And, as wisely said by others, segment heavy travel is not (always) cheap and many short haulers would do very well also in rev. based world. Also, in a way AY Plus is somewhat revenue based already as they reward J flying greatly over Y, which is good. The thing I don't like is that they only reward AY J and with their limited network it doesn't support their wider OW partnership model very well when it comes to AY Plus = not good program to have as the only OW plan for many FFs.
Regarding segments, intuition had some great points earlier, they have taken segment requirement down, keeping point requirement the same..why is that? Same with Lumo, 3x points compared to Plat but only 2x segments...not fair game and "punishing" one type of FF over other and giving the feeling that AY wants to reward SH commuters over J long haulers. Maybe they see DY and SK the main competition and long hauls are doing well enough as it is, no need to use AY Plus as a tool to sell more LH tickets and SH loads is where their focus lies.
What comes to revenue based model, I would support that from my own wallet's perspective, nothing to do with any 3rd party paying for my travels. And, as wisely said by others, segment heavy travel is not (always) cheap and many short haulers would do very well also in rev. based world. Also, in a way AY Plus is somewhat revenue based already as they reward J flying greatly over Y, which is good. The thing I don't like is that they only reward AY J and with their limited network it doesn't support their wider OW partnership model very well when it comes to AY Plus = not good program to have as the only OW plan for many FFs.
Regarding segments, intuition had some great points earlier, they have taken segment requirement down, keeping point requirement the same..why is that? Same with Lumo, 3x points compared to Plat but only 2x segments...not fair game and "punishing" one type of FF over other and giving the feeling that AY wants to reward SH commuters over J long haulers. Maybe they see DY and SK the main competition and long hauls are doing well enough as it is, no need to use AY Plus as a tool to sell more LH tickets and SH loads is where their focus lies.
Apr 28, 2018, 2:22 am
#1140
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat, ALL Plat, Scandic L2
Posts: 3,623
Finnair Plus Silver and Gold points thresholds were lowered too, not only segments ones. Only Platinum had its points threshold unchanged.
A lot of my colleagues have Finnair Silver (or higher) thanks by flying long-haul twice a year (or more) in Y - not by segments.
A lot of my colleagues have Finnair Silver (or higher) thanks by flying long-haul twice a year (or more) in Y - not by segments.