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-   -   View from the Wing [VFTW] discussions (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/external-miles-points-resources/1579554-view-wing-vftw-discussions.html)

JetAway Dec 29, 2015 2:56 pm


Originally Posted by Raffles (Post 25930550)
The real question is why he bothers with his real job!

Because, contrary to your assumptions, he may actually need it.

Adam1222 Dec 29, 2015 4:03 pm


Originally Posted by Raffles (Post 25930550)

Originally Posted by Adam1222 (Post 25924992)
If Gary is really one of the most intelligent people on the planet, it's a shame he is wasting that intelligence and time blogging about flying, miles, and points, and low profile tv appearances about same.

I struggle to see the logic in that.

Gary will be one of the highest earning people in the US thanks to his credit card earnings. (Only 0.1% of US tax returns are for $1m or more and lets assume Gary is up there.)

He is a shareholder in various bits of HOM, which is a fairly serious business these days.

He gets to be the spokesman for what is now a very major industry, with the profile that brings. If we're honest, we have probably all benefitted at some time or other from Gary putting pressure on programme executives over changes, either in the media or in private.

He gets lots of adoring email from his readers thanking him for helping them arrange their dream trip (I get this, so I know Gary will too).

He is his own boss.

The real question is why he bothers with his real job!

My logic is based on altruism. I want the most brilliant people in the world to spend their days making the world a better place, not helping middle class people fly on business class flights cheaply.

bthotugigem05 Dec 29, 2015 4:08 pm

The heck? That's literally the weirdest thing I've ever heard on this board.

GUWonder Dec 29, 2015 4:24 pm


Originally Posted by Adam1222 (Post 25932366)
My logic is based on altruism. I want the most brilliant people in the world to spend their days making the world a better place, not helping middle class people fly on business class flights cheaply.

If only I were to buy into the notion that the logic is a logic based on altruism, then perhaps I'd see your point about altruism.

And it's not like altruistic pursuits are necessarily the best use of even every brilliant mind -- whether or not VFTW blogger is seen as a brilliant mind.

It's a shame that a person has interests in helping himself and others to travel more comfortably without spending as much as some others do for the same thing?

I really have to wonder what the agenda is that drives some of the criticism that gets directed at some bloggers.

ctownflyer Dec 29, 2015 6:36 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25932474)
I really have to wonder what the agenda is that drives some of the criticism that gets directed at some bloggers.

I'd assume the majority of it is jealousy, not that most people would admit that even to themselves.

Adam1222 Dec 29, 2015 8:24 pm


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 25933022)

Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25932474)
I really have to wonder what the agenda is that drives some of the criticism that gets directed at some bloggers.

I'd assume the majority of it is jealousy, not that most people would admit that even to themselves.

Nope. I think it's very foolish to make assumptions about the motivations of strangers. I know that I would rather be poor and doing the work I do then rich from doing a travel and points blog.
Also, if you look back to how we got to this discussion, it was NOT based on a criticism of Gary, but based on an FT commenter raising the issue of Gary's intellect.
There are wonderful people doing great things with low intellect. And there are terrible people with gigantic brains. I personally would find the life led by many major bloggers to be boring. That doesn't make what they do bad, it just isn't for me.

My criticism of bloggers tends to be about specific practices, not their mere existence. For example, today I posted in a different blog discussion about what I see as major ethical problem about a misleading post related to travel to a country with a poor LGBT human rights record. Another blogger is guilty of tax evasion, and his blog posts scream for an audit. Neither of those are things I'm "jealous" of.

Blogging is a form of media. If I were to criticize a reporter's poorly reasoned or poorly researched or regurgitated piece, would you accuse me of jealousy? Is my criticism of a blog any less valid than your criticism of my post about a blog?

Because you may have a different value system than me in how you prioritize what a certain blogger does does not justify personal attacks.

ctownflyer Dec 30, 2015 9:44 am


Originally Posted by Adam1222 (Post 25933420)
Because you may have a different value system than me in how you prioritize what a certain blogger does does not justify personal attacks.

Nobody accused you personally of anything :eek:

Was talking about the general majority of blogger attacks. I think that deep down many people are angry because they feel that they could be having the same lifestyle/income as the top bloggers and put on a better blog as well.

Except it's far harder than it looks to run and maintain.

kokonutz Dec 30, 2015 12:16 pm


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 25935769)
Nobody accused you personally of anything :eek:

Was talking about the general majority of blogger attacks. I think that deep down many people are angry because they feel that they could be having the same lifestyle/income as the top bloggers and put on a better blog as well.

Except it's far harder than it looks to run and maintain.

Disagree.

People get upset with bloggers because they are monetizing information freely available on FT to audiences so big that they affect the programs and individual situational outcomes.

That they are taking cash for carving up the goose that lays golden eggs.

Analogy: I'm sitting on the beach in Negril, Jamaica right now. Same stretch of beach I've been visiting for decades. 30 years ago it was paradise. Today there is a Margaritaville next door and it's just a bit of a hot mess. I'm not jealous of Jimmy Buffet for his success. I'm angry at him for taking a sh!t on paradise so he can make a few more bucks.

ctownflyer Dec 30, 2015 12:37 pm


Originally Posted by kokonutz (Post 25936652)
Disagree.

People get upset with bloggers because they are monetizing information freely available on FT to audiences so big that they affect the programs and individual situational outcomes.

That they are taking cash for carving up the goose that lays golden eggs.

Analogy: I'm sitting on the beach in Negril, Jamaica right now. Same stretch of beach I've been visiting for decades. 30 years ago it was paradise. Today there is a Margaritaville next door and it's just a bit of a hot mess. I'm not jealous of Jimmy Buffet for his success. I'm angry at him for taking a sh!t on paradise so he can make a few more bucks.

Superficially I'm sure that's what you and the majority believe to be true. Hence the angries. It's fair, I get it. Especially when things are written about that really should be written about. It's happened to me with things bloggers have learned from me in confidence and it hurts.

But deeper down in your psyche, I daresay you'd like to be in his shoes with his relationships with the banks that pay him $$$$$$$$ for writing about the hobby we all love to write about as FTers.

Maybe I'm wrong. But that's my take on it.

You don't think TBB himself wouldn't love to have those relationships? Do you think George wouldn't be shilling them as he shills the weak links he currently has, if he had those lucrative relationships? All while calling out the pumpers?

84fiero Dec 30, 2015 1:22 pm


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 25936743)
Superficially I'm sure that's what you and the majority believe to be true. Hence the angries. It's fair, I get it. Especially when things are written about that really should be written about. It's happened to me with things bloggers have learned from me in confidence and it hurts.

But deeper down in your psyche, I daresay you'd like to be in his shoes with his relationships with the banks that pay him $$$$$$$$ for writing about the hobby we all love to write about as FTers.

Maybe I'm wrong. But that's my take on it.

You don't think TBB himself wouldn't love to have those relationships? Do you think George wouldn't be shilling them as he shills the weak links he currently has, if he had those lucrative relationships? All while calling out the pumpers?

While I'm sure some would, I think you grossly overestimate how much the majority of people would truly enjoy the constant writing and other work that goes into it. Not everyone has an aptitude or even an interest in that kind of daily work - just as not everyone has musical, artistic, or engineering, and other interests and/or talents. And some who do enjoy talking and writing about this area for fun would not have any desire to do so for a living.

To assert that all or most critical comments about a blogger stems from some deep-seated jealousy is rather unfounded. And it discredits the valid and constructive criticism that is levied alongside other less valid comments. Perhaps some bloggers think so highly of themselves that they assume everyone must be jealous?

Folks who criticize a restaurant, a hotel, a model of automobile, newspaper article, or movie aren't presumed to be doing so only out of secret desires to be doing such work are they?

ctownflyer Dec 30, 2015 1:25 pm


Originally Posted by 84fiero (Post 25936941)
While I'm sure some would, I think you grossly overestimate how much the majority of people would truly enjoy the constant writing and other work that goes into it. Not everyone has an aptitude or even an interest in that kind of daily work - just as not everyone has musical, artistic, or engineering, and other interests and/or talents. And some who do enjoy talking and writing about this area for fun would not have any desire to do so for a living.

To assert that all or most critical comments about a blogger stems from some deep-seated jealousy is rather unfounded. And it discredits the valid and constructive criticism that is levied alongside other less valid comments. Perhaps some bloggers think so highly of themselves that they assume everyone must be jealous?

Folks who criticize a restaurant, a hotel, a model of automobile, newspaper article, or movie aren't presumed to be doing so only out of secret desires to be doing such work are they?

Nobody said all.
And nothing is wrong with criticism. I love criticism, get it all the time and use it to improve.

But there are a lot of bizarre/obsessive posts on this particular board that go far beyond normal criticism. If it were kept to healthy levels then more bloggers would participate and it would be a positive influence.

But it jumped the shark long ago. And that's a shame IMHO.

Adam1222 Dec 30, 2015 2:26 pm


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 25936957)

Originally Posted by 84fiero (Post 25936941)
While I'm sure some would, I think you grossly overestimate how much the majority of people would truly enjoy the constant writing and other work that goes into it. Not everyone has an aptitude or even an interest in that kind of daily work - just as not everyone has musical, artistic, or engineering, and other interests and/or talents. And some who do enjoy talking and writing about this area for fun would not have any desire to do so for a living.

To assert that all or most critical comments about a blogger stems from some deep-seated jealousy is rather unfounded. And it discredits the valid and constructive criticism that is levied alongside other less valid comments. Perhaps some bloggers think so highly of themselves that they assume everyone must be jealous?

Folks who criticize a restaurant, a hotel, a model of automobile, newspaper article, or movie aren't presumed to be doing so only out of secret desires to be doing such work are they?

Nobody said all.
And nothing is wrong with criticism. I love criticism, get it all the time and use it to improve.

But there are a lot of bizarre/obsessive posts on this particular board that go far beyond normal criticism. If it were kept to healthy levels then more bloggers would participate and it would be a positive influence.

But it jumped the shark long ago. And that's a shame IMHO.

You accused fellow FTers of jealousy when no one was making personal attacks on any posters. (Despite your attempt to wink and aay it wasn't directed at anyone.) You have no right to take a moral high ground.

Oh and another blog discussed in this forum just had a post that was clearly the result of discussion/criticism on FT. So your claim that people's criticism has led to no participation by bloggers is disproven.

Finally, this is a discussion thread, not a constructive feedback for the blogger forum. If you want to talk to Gary about an issue you have with his blog, I'm sure you can reach him.

84fiero Dec 30, 2015 2:27 pm


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 25936957)
Nobody said all.
And nothing is wrong with criticism. I love criticism, get it all the time and use it to improve.

But there are a lot of bizarre/obsessive posts on this particular board that go far beyond normal criticism. If it were kept to healthy levels then more bloggers would participate and it would be a positive influence.

But it jumped the shark long ago. And that's a shame IMHO.

I said "all or most"...


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 25935769)
Was talking about the general majority of blogger attacks.


What sort of criteria do you apply to determine what reaches "bizarre"?
As I said above, there are comments that have little to no value along with those that do...though the same can be said throughout FlyerTalk or any internet forum for that matter. I don't think that means that, for example, the United forum has jumped the shark.

For some of the most bizarre or even vulgar comments, though, one would have to go to the comments section of some blogs themselves (those who don't censor comments). Not that it means such are helpful in either spot.

kokonutz Dec 30, 2015 3:01 pm


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 25936743)
Superficially I'm sure that's what you and the majority believe to be true. Hence the angries. It's fair, I get it. Especially when things are written about that really should be written about. It's happened to me with things bloggers have learned from me in confidence and it hurts.

But deeper down in your psyche, I daresay you'd like to be in his shoes with his relationships with the banks that pay him $$$$$$$$ for writing about the hobby we all love to write about as FTers.

Maybe I'm wrong. But that's my take on it.

You don't think TBB himself wouldn't love to have those relationships? Do you think George wouldn't be shilling them as he shills the weak links he currently has, if he had those lucrative relationships? All while calling out the pumpers?

I love to travel and see the world. And love even more doing it in style. Love the points and miles game (while it lasts). But I would never make it my job.

That would surely ruin it for me. And I don't want to ruin something I love so well.

And I certainly don't envy being a higgler, whatever the product.

I also never want to own, operate or work at a Margaritaville. ;)

gpapadop Dec 31, 2015 8:14 am


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 25936743)
You don't think TBB himself wouldn't love to have those relationships? Do you think George wouldn't be shilling them as he shills the weak links he currently has, if he had those lucrative relationships? All while calling out the pumpers?

I doubt it. I hate the ........ banks and their moronic "audit" departments. Being my own best customer in the crappy creditcardsdotbomb with a few additional apps here and there (before they take it away for compliance violations......!!!!) while shilling my Amazon link (lol) is enough. To me, this is still a hobby being ruined by bloggers who have become bank whores selling a lifestyle in the most egregious ways! Would I love to have what you think I want? Sure, but only on MY terms which is not going to happen. And that is perfectly okay. I like entertaining, educating and sometimes even inspiring my readers. It makes me feel GOOD. Thank God day job pays well. I just like creating something from scratch and helping people along the way. Or maybe I just like to justify it a bit to wife to let me keep TBBing :D

To get back on topic, what has TSA done to Gary? The anti TSA rants are reaching preposterous levels now, WOW!


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