Downgrade options
Oct 22, 2015 | 12:16 am
#31
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,796
m3red : I'm genuinely surprised that you have waited this long before redirecting at least some of your air business to other carriers.
Emirates do a good job and, speaking personally, have mostly looked after me very well. But that's not enough to stop me at least trying alternative options from time to time.
I've always believed that EK are at their best once you're actually in the air. Ok....so that's obviously the principal component of any ticket cost. BUT the peripheral aspects - notably pre and post-flight service, whether airport arrangements or telephone support & handling of correspondence - are all part & parcel of the total offering. And very often these can be sub-standard. They can throw as much bubbly & other goodies at me as they like, but it won't make up for lack of consistency, professionalism, and attention to detail in other areas.
Sometimes loyalty does not, of itself, guarantee the reaction you hope for/expect when you need it most.
Emirates do a good job and, speaking personally, have mostly looked after me very well. But that's not enough to stop me at least trying alternative options from time to time.
I've always believed that EK are at their best once you're actually in the air. Ok....so that's obviously the principal component of any ticket cost. BUT the peripheral aspects - notably pre and post-flight service, whether airport arrangements or telephone support & handling of correspondence - are all part & parcel of the total offering. And very often these can be sub-standard. They can throw as much bubbly & other goodies at me as they like, but it won't make up for lack of consistency, professionalism, and attention to detail in other areas.
Sometimes loyalty does not, of itself, guarantee the reaction you hope for/expect when you need it most.
Oct 28, 2015 | 9:44 pm
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,930
m3red : I'm genuinely surprised that you have waited this long before redirecting at least some of your air business to other carriers.
Emirates do a good job and, speaking personally, have mostly looked after me very well. But that's not enough to stop me at least trying alternative options from time to time.
I've always believed that EK are at their best once you're actually in the air. Ok....so that's obviously the principal component of any ticket cost. BUT the peripheral aspects - notably pre and post-flight service, whether airport arrangements or telephone support & handling of correspondence - are all part & parcel of the total offering. And very often these can be sub-standard. They can throw as much bubbly & other goodies at me as they like, but it won't make up for lack of consistency, professionalism, and attention to detail in other areas.
Sometimes loyalty does not, of itself, guarantee the reaction you hope for/expect when you need it most.
Emirates do a good job and, speaking personally, have mostly looked after me very well. But that's not enough to stop me at least trying alternative options from time to time.
I've always believed that EK are at their best once you're actually in the air. Ok....so that's obviously the principal component of any ticket cost. BUT the peripheral aspects - notably pre and post-flight service, whether airport arrangements or telephone support & handling of correspondence - are all part & parcel of the total offering. And very often these can be sub-standard. They can throw as much bubbly & other goodies at me as they like, but it won't make up for lack of consistency, professionalism, and attention to detail in other areas.
Sometimes loyalty does not, of itself, guarantee the reaction you hope for/expect when you need it most.
So slow.
Oct 29, 2015 | 9:17 am
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,930
Update
Apparently the calculation was correct... I'd love to see an upgrade to first from j for 300 aed.
They've offered us 25k miles each.
Absolute joke, I need to see how they've calculated this. Clearly downgraded me to the most expensive j fare and are comparing it vs the f flex fare I purchased. The plane was empty I could have had a saver!
Apparently the calculation was correct... I'd love to see an upgrade to first from j for 300 aed.
They've offered us 25k miles each.
Absolute joke, I need to see how they've calculated this. Clearly downgraded me to the most expensive j fare and are comparing it vs the f flex fare I purchased. The plane was empty I could have had a saver!
Nov 5, 2015 | 7:59 am
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,930
We are Emirates we will charge you first give you j and not refund you.
For those that are interested this was the final response to my downgrade claim.
We are Emirates we will do what we want...
Our Ref No: DXB.......
Dear Mr M3red
Thank you for your email messages of 29 October and 04 November.
I am sorry to learn that you are disappointed with my response. By explaining and clarifying our position we do not wish for you to have negative feelings about the service provided by Emirates.
As outlined in my previous correspondence, in line with our operating policy, booking references with aircraft configuration changes/schedule changes due to operational reasons are automatically placed on a message queue to be actioned by our Contact Centre staff on priority basis. As this is a queue system, our staff do contact passengers to advise them of the schedule changes. I understand that you identified the change of class in your booking prior to our staff contacting you.
A report from our Global Contact Center team indicates that you wished to travel only on 20 October. Regrettably, our staff were unable to obtain an interline booking with Bangkok Airways, as there was no one-way fare provided by them.
Please allow me to also clarify that our booking module has different subordinate booking classes. To explain fully, a First class fare will have different sub-classes and the fare is calculated depending on the availability at the time of booking. Therefore, on 13 October, when you contacted our Global Contact Center, our staff advised you that the subordinate First Class fare that you were booked under was unavailable from Bangkok. However, a higher subordinate First class fare was available where a difference of fare would apply. However, you preferred to travel in Business class on flight EK379 as you were concerned about transferring your baggage on Emirates.
With regard to your wife's booking, her ticket was issued on 03 August 2015 in First Class on flight EK378 and Business Class on flight EK379. Your ticket was issued 14 August in First Class on both flights EK378 and EK379. May I explain that our airfares are determined by commercial and operational policies and our fares are finalised by our Online Pricing team. The fare construction may vary, depending on the fare basis, point of ticket issuance, season, passenger load factors, route structure, etc. Therefore, in line with our procedures, I can confirm that the refund amount of AED 300 has been correctly calculated in this instance.
If you were advised of a difference in fare of AED 1500 to upgrade online, this would have been applicable for that day only. In the event you paid AED 1500 to avail of the upgrade, a refund of AED 1500 would have applied if you were downgraded to Business Class.
We have demonstrated empathy by offering you and your wife 25,000 Skywards miles, for the events described. Whilst I understand your disappointment, may I take this opportunity to inform you that we do not offer Skywards miles as a matter of course.
I hope that we can now draw this matter to a close, and look forward to welcoming you and your wife onboard our flights when you next travel Emirates.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Affairs
We are Emirates we will do what we want...
Our Ref No: DXB.......
Dear Mr M3red
Thank you for your email messages of 29 October and 04 November.
I am sorry to learn that you are disappointed with my response. By explaining and clarifying our position we do not wish for you to have negative feelings about the service provided by Emirates.
As outlined in my previous correspondence, in line with our operating policy, booking references with aircraft configuration changes/schedule changes due to operational reasons are automatically placed on a message queue to be actioned by our Contact Centre staff on priority basis. As this is a queue system, our staff do contact passengers to advise them of the schedule changes. I understand that you identified the change of class in your booking prior to our staff contacting you.
A report from our Global Contact Center team indicates that you wished to travel only on 20 October. Regrettably, our staff were unable to obtain an interline booking with Bangkok Airways, as there was no one-way fare provided by them.
Please allow me to also clarify that our booking module has different subordinate booking classes. To explain fully, a First class fare will have different sub-classes and the fare is calculated depending on the availability at the time of booking. Therefore, on 13 October, when you contacted our Global Contact Center, our staff advised you that the subordinate First Class fare that you were booked under was unavailable from Bangkok. However, a higher subordinate First class fare was available where a difference of fare would apply. However, you preferred to travel in Business class on flight EK379 as you were concerned about transferring your baggage on Emirates.
With regard to your wife's booking, her ticket was issued on 03 August 2015 in First Class on flight EK378 and Business Class on flight EK379. Your ticket was issued 14 August in First Class on both flights EK378 and EK379. May I explain that our airfares are determined by commercial and operational policies and our fares are finalised by our Online Pricing team. The fare construction may vary, depending on the fare basis, point of ticket issuance, season, passenger load factors, route structure, etc. Therefore, in line with our procedures, I can confirm that the refund amount of AED 300 has been correctly calculated in this instance.
If you were advised of a difference in fare of AED 1500 to upgrade online, this would have been applicable for that day only. In the event you paid AED 1500 to avail of the upgrade, a refund of AED 1500 would have applied if you were downgraded to Business Class.
We have demonstrated empathy by offering you and your wife 25,000 Skywards miles, for the events described. Whilst I understand your disappointment, may I take this opportunity to inform you that we do not offer Skywards miles as a matter of course.
I hope that we can now draw this matter to a close, and look forward to welcoming you and your wife onboard our flights when you next travel Emirates.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Affairs
Nov 5, 2015 | 8:53 am
#37
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,791
That's a pretty comprehensive and well-written reply... quite impressed. That guy must have spent quite a bit of time analysing it all. I don't think you'll get such a well-considered and to-the-point response from almost any other business or airline, even if the content/outcome aren't what you hoped for. 25k miles is also a pretty sweet compensation IMHO
Nov 5, 2015 | 9:07 am
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,930
I wanted the cash back I've got a lot of points. We both hit platinum shortly. I don't think it's acceptable to not be transparent as to how they came up with 300aed refund vs 1500 which was the fare difference.
Nov 5, 2015 | 9:11 am
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold; LH Senator
Posts: 30,598
Nov 5, 2015 | 11:08 am
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,930
I guess I can't buy 50k points for 1200 aed so that's something...I don't need the points but they should IMO offer the points and the cash back..
I also shouldn't have to fight for it...in fact the excuses are rubbish they just refuse to refund.
Nov 5, 2015 | 11:49 am
#43
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,796
Oh sure, agreed, you shouldn't have to fight like that.
I'm not in any way defending them taking your money for a service that was not then delivered. By 'quality' letter, I meant that it was at least articulate and had been carefully considered.
But on reflection .......this won't be the first time they have rejected a claim from someone in a very similar situation, so I guess the wording was - to some extent - based on previous responses.
I'm not in any way defending them taking your money for a service that was not then delivered. By 'quality' letter, I meant that it was at least articulate and had been carefully considered.
But on reflection .......this won't be the first time they have rejected a claim from someone in a very similar situation, so I guess the wording was - to some extent - based on previous responses.
Nov 5, 2015 | 12:25 pm
#44
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,791
Just read through the thread again, and I think I understand EK's point.
1. You claim a fare difference of 1500AED, This is based on the price you were shown online at the time of booking? This might be the difference between J Saver and F Flex (you mention being F Flex on the way there and J Saver return however EK mail confirms you are paid F so I assume you are F Flex return?).
2. At the time of the downgrade you were possibly (you don't mention explcitily as far as I can tell) rebooked to J Flex or Flex Plus
3. My assumption would be that EK rebooks you on the same ticket terms (i.e. change fee, cancellation fee, etc.) when the aircaft configuration changes, so if you're on F Flex your ticket is changed to J Flex.
4. Thus your refund is the difference between a F Flex that you paid in August and a J Flex at the time of the downgrade (not optimal, obviously, as the price would've potentially changed by the time of the downgrade), but the refund is not the difference between F Flex and the lowest J fare from the day you made the booking.
5. By that logic, EK is probably correct in their calculation, though that doesn't mean it's "right"
EDIT: And 50,000 Skywards miles at an approximate value of 1.5cpm gives you around 2,800 AED in value, so all in all that's 3,100 AED, but of course the miles can't be used as cash though I'd argue the significant amount thereof over the cash refund might make up for that. Even though your utility for the miles may be marginal as you state you don't need them.
1. You claim a fare difference of 1500AED, This is based on the price you were shown online at the time of booking? This might be the difference between J Saver and F Flex (you mention being F Flex on the way there and J Saver return however EK mail confirms you are paid F so I assume you are F Flex return?).
2. At the time of the downgrade you were possibly (you don't mention explcitily as far as I can tell) rebooked to J Flex or Flex Plus
3. My assumption would be that EK rebooks you on the same ticket terms (i.e. change fee, cancellation fee, etc.) when the aircaft configuration changes, so if you're on F Flex your ticket is changed to J Flex.
4. Thus your refund is the difference between a F Flex that you paid in August and a J Flex at the time of the downgrade (not optimal, obviously, as the price would've potentially changed by the time of the downgrade), but the refund is not the difference between F Flex and the lowest J fare from the day you made the booking.
5. By that logic, EK is probably correct in their calculation, though that doesn't mean it's "right"
EDIT: And 50,000 Skywards miles at an approximate value of 1.5cpm gives you around 2,800 AED in value, so all in all that's 3,100 AED, but of course the miles can't be used as cash though I'd argue the significant amount thereof over the cash refund might make up for that. Even though your utility for the miles may be marginal as you state you don't need them.
Nov 5, 2015 | 9:06 pm
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,930
Just read through the thread again, and I think I understand EK's point.
1. You claim a fare difference of 1500AED, This is based on the price you were shown online at the time of booking? This might be the difference between J Saver and F Flex (you mention being F Flex on the way there and J Saver return however EK mail confirms you are paid F so I assume you are F Flex return?).
2. At the time of the downgrade you were possibly (you don't mention explcitily as far as I can tell) rebooked to J Flex or Flex Plus
3. My assumption would be that EK rebooks you on the same ticket terms (i.e. change fee, cancellation fee, etc.) when the aircaft configuration changes, so if you're on F Flex your ticket is changed to J Flex.
4. Thus your refund is the difference between a F Flex that you paid in August and a J Flex at the time of the downgrade (not optimal, obviously, as the price would've potentially changed by the time of the downgrade), but the refund is not the difference between F Flex and the lowest J fare from the day you made the booking.
5. By that logic, EK is probably correct in their calculation, though that doesn't mean it's "right"
EDIT: And 50,000 Skywards miles at an approximate value of 1.5cpm gives you around 2,800 AED in value, so all in all that's 3,100 AED, but of course the miles can't be used as cash though I'd argue the significant amount thereof over the cash refund might make up for that. Even though your utility for the miles may be marginal as you state you don't need them.
1. You claim a fare difference of 1500AED, This is based on the price you were shown online at the time of booking? This might be the difference between J Saver and F Flex (you mention being F Flex on the way there and J Saver return however EK mail confirms you are paid F so I assume you are F Flex return?).
2. At the time of the downgrade you were possibly (you don't mention explcitily as far as I can tell) rebooked to J Flex or Flex Plus
3. My assumption would be that EK rebooks you on the same ticket terms (i.e. change fee, cancellation fee, etc.) when the aircaft configuration changes, so if you're on F Flex your ticket is changed to J Flex.
4. Thus your refund is the difference between a F Flex that you paid in August and a J Flex at the time of the downgrade (not optimal, obviously, as the price would've potentially changed by the time of the downgrade), but the refund is not the difference between F Flex and the lowest J fare from the day you made the booking.
5. By that logic, EK is probably correct in their calculation, though that doesn't mean it's "right"
EDIT: And 50,000 Skywards miles at an approximate value of 1.5cpm gives you around 2,800 AED in value, so all in all that's 3,100 AED, but of course the miles can't be used as cash though I'd argue the significant amount thereof over the cash refund might make up for that. Even though your utility for the miles may be marginal as you state you don't need them.
I booked my wife the j flex and upgraded her using miles (but it clearly stated the option to upgrade each leg at the time of booking to first for 1500 aed each leg).
Mine was paid first flex. Notwithstanding all the taxes etc the exact fare difference was 3000 aed.
I've no idea how I can pay 12,200 aed for a flex first out and j back to Phuket. If they'd cancelled the ticket (an option they never gave me) I could have rebooked first out j back for 1500 cheaper (I checked).
I just feel a bit ripped off and being in Dubai with zero recourse is frustrating. Next time this happens ex eu I'm going straight for a claim bypassing customer services and I'd advise anyone else to do the same.