Emirates over rated?

Old Oct 5, 15, 6:46 am
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by aceboy44 View Post
No wonder it is rated as 4* airlines and Qatar Airways is rated as 5* airlines.
It's not that long since QR were in the bad books. How times change.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qatar...-horrible.html
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Old Oct 5, 15, 6:49 am
  #107  
 
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Originally Posted by SuiteFlight View Post
I'd certainly agree that airline operations, the creation of policy, procedures, and governance systems are not things passengers should involve themselves with (they are, after all, not employees or managers of the airline), but there could be cause for confusion here in that what has also been strongly outlined is that passengers should be aware of these restraints in a general sense (such as that you are probably not as important to the airline as you'd like to think you are lol) to ground their expectations.

If you read your post in full I think that comes across clearly, but I thought it worth highlighting in case someone just quickly glances over the first paragraph. Like a sausage, we don't need to know what goes into it, but we should have a basic appreciation of what a sausage (or airline, in terms of how it acts) tastes like lol (so we don't expect it taste like spinach - or expect airlines to just accomodate every whim).
Of course I think it's reasonable for airlines to expect that their customers are also reasonable and don't think airlines are miracle workers - after all, airlines are simply companies operating in someone else's space and have to adhere to all the rules they are put under as well!

That said, there seems to be something about airports (and lounges specifically!) that seems to regress functioning mature and reasonable adults into helpless babies who have trouble with reading comprehension, motor skills and sometimes even forgetting their own names (Do you know who I am?!)
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Old Oct 5, 15, 7:10 pm
  #108  
 
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Originally Posted by ft101 View Post
It's not that long since QR were in the bad books. How times change.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qatar...-horrible.html
Well, it must be horrible if they spell it like that.
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Old Oct 5, 15, 7:49 pm
  #109  
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Originally Posted by RadioGirl View Post
Well, it must be horrible if they spell it like that.
Yes, the "Privilage Club" can be a letdown, just like the other Chinese knockoffs one may encounter.


If the OP purchased "Calvim Klain" shoes and they ended up not performing to his impossible standards, he'd surely find a way to complain about Calvin Klein's poor quality...
Too bad that the OP couldn't figure out how to join QR's legitimate FF program.
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Old Oct 5, 15, 8:03 pm
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by eternaltransit View Post
There seems to be something about airports (and lounges specifically!) that seems to regress functioning mature and reasonable adults into helpless babies who have trouble with reading comprehension, motor skills and sometimes even forgetting their own names (Do you know who I am?!)
While certainly there are other factors that can feed into that "regression" , I think the discombobulating nature of airline travel plays a part here - bit like the Gruen effect of shopping centres and casinos - airports and flights (particularly long haul) can disorient and impair fuctioning, leading to subpar behavioural and emotional responses (just look at the craziness of swarm behaviour at boarding gates, which seems to tap into some scarcity competition behaviour, even though everyone has got a seat and crowding the boarding lanes doesn't get anyone onboard faster - people just get into this hurry up so I can wait mindset).

I love your last line here - perhaps DYKWIA? statements should be met with the response "No, but shouldn't you already know that?"
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Old Oct 5, 15, 8:36 pm
  #111  
 
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What an interesting thread this has turned into. Great debaters here, folks. It's seldom that a thread is actually thought provoking, and this one is rising to really good dinner talk. I wish all of us chiming in on this could get around a table.

I'm actually a relatively easy going passenger. I seldom make a scene or put up a fuss, and am very appreciative of what I get.

Great post about the conversation between the line agent and revenue management. I can just hear it. And I understand the post about needing to get 300 pax checked in and boarded. But at the end of the day, to an F pax on EK, or SQ or CX (or any carrier marketing itself as 'premium'), the fact that the airline needs to close out the flight and doesn't have enough staff to pick up the phone for an F pax isn't the passenger's problem. Outstations or hub, revenue or award, regular on time or IRROP, there is a passenger expectation on premium classes of a certain level of service and responsiveness. In my experience, that's where the so-called premium airlines sometimes fall short. Hey, it's not exactly slumming to spend a couple of extra hours in the Wing in HKG sipping champagne and taking a bath. It's one of those ridiculous first world entitled complaints about not being able to catch an earlier F class flight out of HKG. But in the end of the day, it "did;;t make sense." And that was the point of my post.

Will airlines institute a "common sense" hotline? Not likely. But it might not be such a bad idea. Because if you look at the majority of '.....' posts on FT probably come down to some kind of "It doesn't make sense" interactions
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Old Oct 5, 15, 10:24 pm
  #112  
 
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I want to add my thanks to rgdave and eternaltransit for the thoughtful sideline discussion. I initially cheered the idea of a "Department of Common Sense" (and not just for airlines!) although I understand the counter-points raised about the problems with timing for issues that arise and need to be resolved during check-in. There may still be a place for this in service recovery or problems that arise well before check-in, though.

Two points I'd like to add to this.

First, airlines have made their "product" complicated and multi-dimensional, to the point where even staff, much less customers, have trouble understanding the rules. (This is not exclusive to airlines; fast food, insurance companies and mobile phone companies have done the same.)

[Curmudgeon] In the Good Old Days (tm), airline X sold you a ticket from A to B for a given date and time, and the choice was pretty much (a) Economy, Business or First and (b) smoking or non-smoking. Simples.

Now there are multiple FFPs with complicated rules based on marketing airline, operating airline, fare basis, status, etc etc. There are multiple methods for upgrading to a higher class, with different benefits for different methods. There are lounges with entry criteria being not just class of travel but whether you paid, upgraded, were op-uped, and then airline status, etc. There are ancillary benefits (chauffeur drive, Dubai Connect) with various criteria that are not only complicated but change from location to location or time to time. [/curmudgeon]

No doubt every rule, individually, made sense at the time from a business cost/benefit analysis. But if we're honest, most of the questions, complaints and discussion in the airline end of FT is because of the complexity of the overall package. Even airline staff or airline IT are often caught out by some of the complex situations.

Which leads to my second point: I agree completely that customers shouldn't have to know or care about the internal processes of the airline. Therefore, an airline's front-facing staff should reflect this in their attitude. They could acknowledge that it's confusing, that they might be mistaken, and if they are right, turn down requests in a polite way. If it's complicated, they could offer to check with someone else rather than just say (inevitably) "no."

In the early days of the EK/QF (so-called) partnership, there was confusion on both sides about lounge access (now it's just QF that's confused ). Both EK and QF were quite rude about it, even when it eventually turned out they were wrong. It seemed to be a case where it was easier to say "no" rather than think about the situation, check with a supervisor, or review the rules. If they can't understand their own rules, they shouldn't be snarky to passengers for being confused. (I'm still trying to get QF to figure out the rules for QF domestic lounge entry for EK Golds. )
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Old Oct 6, 15, 1:35 am
  #113  
 
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Expanding on from this indeed more interesting progression of this thread (wholeheartedly agree rgdave, certainly more illuminating that just repeatedly be nailing people to crosses), I think people need to appreciate that front line agents aren't the embodiment of the airlines they represent, but are individual people who have their own concerns and priorities that don't always align to priorities held elsewhere in the airline. Revenue Management & Public Relations areas of the airline may put more attention into you as a passenger with regards to satisfaction, than check-in and other ground operations staff will. Simply put, whether you will be a repeat traveller with the airline is of little or no concern to ground staff, it's not the focus of their job and there is little benefit to them directly to make it their concern (although it may end up effecting them indirectly in some diffuse way later).

Eternaltransit's posited transcript of the conversation between check in agent and duty supervisor is pretty illustrative here (as rgdave also highlights) in that the supervisor clearly expresses why are you bothering me with this, it's not my priority and I'm not really interested. Check in agents and ground staff aren't really focussed on (nor ever really rewarded for) customer satisfaction, so the fact you may get one of them to care about your personal situation is often above and beyond - great when it happens, but should be no surprise when it doesn't. [As an aside, I think it should be highlighted that even if ground staff bend over backwards for every passenger, 95%+ of people checking in wouldn't take up any more time than they currently do now - because almost all passengers just are looking to grab their boarding pass and go. It's just those with something atypical that rise above the transactional process]

This isn't an excuse for airline staff not caring (I find it rather odd that you can find people here stridently arguing that X airline is known for having problems with such and such, or being awful at such and such, and that this therefore excludes an OP from ever saying anything about it - terribly illogical and rather smelling of suppression/one eyed ringfencing), rather just to provide understanding why suboptimal experiences abound (and just how great it is when you encounter someone who cares, even though they have no duty nor incentive to do so).

You have to be a bit philosophical to endure the ups and downs of airline travel, otherwise you are on a fast track to a stroke. That doesn't mean you have to be a doormat, just to know when you've reached that point of diminishing return for time/effort involved in resolving disruptions/problems, and to accept less preferred options before you (after all, it's never really been a level playing field between passenger and airline).

Oh yes, couldn't agree more with RadioGirl's point that airlines don't provide highly homogeneous priced products and services (a point I've expounded on myself in other posts), they are huge differentiators on price by audience for the same product/service (there somehow being this one price/value per class/route/etc rather fanciful, and rather pointless to falsely moralise from). Not that it's really of relevance to anyone but the airline (given they are providing the service/product) - I certainly don't spend my flights obsessing whether the other people in my cabin paid more or less than I did for my ticket (just as long as they have a ticket, it's not my concern).

Last edited by SuiteFlight; Oct 6, 15 at 1:51 am
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Old Oct 6, 15, 1:54 am
  #114  
 
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I have talked to some people about my recent experience with Emirates and they were surprised at how such a prestigious airline mistreats its loyal passengers. Anyways to get straight to the point, one person told me “why don’t you take that extra flight with Emirates and achieve gold status? I mean you are one flight short to enjoying gold benefits and it would be pity not to take the flight and enjoy the benefits.”

What do you folks think? If I take that extra flight (flex Plus fare for 8k miles) with Emirates then I’m feeding them my $$$ which they don’t deserve. On the other hand, it would be "foolish" to miss my gold status because of a bad incident with Emirates.

Please no immature responses, what would you do if you were in my shoes? Would you still fly Emirates to enjoy the gold benefits? I don’t want to start from scratch with another airline unless they do status match……

Last edited by aceboy44; Oct 6, 15 at 2:01 am
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Old Oct 6, 15, 2:00 am
  #115  
 
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Originally Posted by aceboy44 View Post
What do you folks think? If I take that extra flight (flex Plus fare for 8k miles) with Emirates then Iím feeding them my $$$ which they donít deserve. On the other hand, it would be "foolish" to miss my gold status because of a bad incident with Emirates.

Please no immature responses, what would you do if you were in my shoes? Would you still fly Emirates to enjoy the gold benefits? I donít want to start from scratch with another airlineÖÖ
Honestly, that's a decision that only you can make. You know all the factors for you personally, and what Gold provides, so all that is left is to make the call.
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Old Oct 6, 15, 2:03 am
  #116  
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What's the point of taking a flight on an airline which you have stated that you will not fly on in order to get benefits that you will not use
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Old Oct 6, 15, 2:45 am
  #117  
 
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Originally Posted by aceboy44 View Post

.................................................. ........

What do you folks think? If I take that extra flight (flex Plus fare for 8k miles) with Emirates then Iím feeding them my $$$ which they donít deserve. On the other hand, it would be "foolish" to miss my gold status because of a bad incident with Emirates.

Please no immature responses, what would you do if you were in my shoes? Would you still fly Emirates to enjoy the gold benefits? I donít want to start from scratch with another airline unless they do status matchÖÖ
I would strongly advise that you do not give Emirates any more of your money, given how unhappy you clearly are with their service and their treatment of you.

This is, after all, far from an isolated incident ; on several occasions in the past you have recounted other instances of EK personnel giving what you consider to be wholly unsatisfactory responses to your requests.

I say it is much better that you do not get hung up on the status thing, but instead fly with whichever carrier you believe will meet your needs in treating you the way you feel you deserve to be treated.

One final point : IF - after the level of criticism you have aimed at Emirates (and the sort of action you categorically stated you will be taking as a result) - you continue to use them just because of the prospect of a shiny card, then please don't be surprised if your posts are never again taken seriously by anyone here on the forum.
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Old Oct 6, 15, 2:50 am
  #118  
 
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Originally Posted by subject2load View Post

please don't be surprised if your posts are never again taken seriously by anyone here on the forum.
Same situation on the QR forum.
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Old Oct 6, 15, 3:38 am
  #119  
 
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Originally Posted by SuiteFlight View Post
[As an aside, I think it should be highlighted that even if ground staff bend over backwards for every passenger, 95%+ of people checking in wouldn't take up any more time than they currently do now - because almost all passengers just are looking to grab their boarding pass and go. It's just those with something atypical that rise above the transactional process].
I think you seriously underestimate the number of DYKWIAs at airports demanding all manner of services and lying through their teeth about how such and such an airline allowed them this or that. I would say about 70% of pax are great and 30% are painful!
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Old Oct 6, 15, 4:37 am
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Originally Posted by groundops View Post
I think you seriously underestimate the number of DYKWIAs at airports demanding all manner of services and lying through their teeth about how such and such an airline allowed them this or that. I would say about 70% of pax are great and 30% are painful!
At that ratio, I'd say that's more indicative (at least in terms of my experience) of what some lounge dragons experience rather than check-in (although some regions/countries are known to be worse than others, so YMMV by region). Oh, and low cost carriers seem to have more problems here than full service carriers, usually down to more rigid rules/less on offer with LCCs so that will have a larger gap (and passengers not reading the restrictions/requirements of their ticket).
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