Implementation Process - 4th Tier
Sep 12, 2012 | 9:39 am
#31
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: OSL
Programs: QR Plat | SK Diamond | A3 Gold
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At a corporate level, perhaps they don't care so much, but if they really didn't, why make the effort to greet frequent flyers and provide top notch service?
I think with EK it has always been a mantra of providing everyone with good service, and a little better to the frequent flyers. Unlike the American way of treating everyone like ...., and treating the FFs very well.
A lot of people have mentioned the importance of delivering benefits consistently. And I also think these benefits need to be relevant. An upgrade voucher only usable on a Y fare is useless to most people - on many routes it is almost as expensive/ more expensive than an O or I fare.
Also, in EK's mind, the incentive for people to fly beyond 50k has been good connections and product, and given the number of people that fly over 50k a year, and the high loads the airline has, they probably see no value in spending more on some people to get them to fly over 50k.
I think with EK it has always been a mantra of providing everyone with good service, and a little better to the frequent flyers. Unlike the American way of treating everyone like ...., and treating the FFs very well.
A lot of people have mentioned the importance of delivering benefits consistently. And I also think these benefits need to be relevant. An upgrade voucher only usable on a Y fare is useless to most people - on many routes it is almost as expensive/ more expensive than an O or I fare.
Also, in EK's mind, the incentive for people to fly beyond 50k has been good connections and product, and given the number of people that fly over 50k a year, and the high loads the airline has, they probably see no value in spending more on some people to get them to fly over 50k.
Sep 12, 2012 | 4:42 pm
#32
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Also, in EK's mind, the incentive for people to fly beyond 50k has been good connections and product, and given the number of people that fly over 50k a year, and the high loads the airline has, they probably see no value in spending more on some people to get them to fly over 50k.
On the routes I fly, they have high loads in Y (although for the past 3-4 months the loads have been light), moderate loads in J and minimal in F.
Australia is a very mature market when it comes to FFP, as one third of the entire population are members of the Qantas program. There would only be a tiny percentage of business travellers on QF metal now who wouldn't be a member.
And if EK are serious about cracking the US market, then they have no choice but to make Skywards far more competitive and to provide the incentive.
Because if they dont - others will. I was talking to an important member of this forum last night, and he even admitted that he is stopping flying on EK because he has already achieved Gold and doesnt see the point in doing any more.
Sep 12, 2012 | 5:44 pm
#33
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: OSL
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Posts: 4,612
Young Grasshopper, I can tell you that the conversations I have had with Skywards and EK staff - that they are very much concerned and aware of the "no incentive past 50K tier miles"
On the routes I fly, they have high loads in Y (although for the past 3-4 months the loads have been light), moderate loads in J and minimal in F.
Australia is a very mature market when it comes to FFP, as one third of the entire population are members of the Qantas program. There would only be a tiny percentage of business travellers on QF metal now who wouldn't be a member.
And if EK are serious about cracking the US market, then they have no choice but to make Skywards far more competitive and to provide the incentive.
Because if they dont - others will. I was talking to an important member of this forum last night, and he even admitted that he is stopping flying on EK because he has already achieved Gold and doesnt see the point in doing any more.
On the routes I fly, they have high loads in Y (although for the past 3-4 months the loads have been light), moderate loads in J and minimal in F.
Australia is a very mature market when it comes to FFP, as one third of the entire population are members of the Qantas program. There would only be a tiny percentage of business travellers on QF metal now who wouldn't be a member.
And if EK are serious about cracking the US market, then they have no choice but to make Skywards far more competitive and to provide the incentive.
Because if they dont - others will. I was talking to an important member of this forum last night, and he even admitted that he is stopping flying on EK because he has already achieved Gold and doesnt see the point in doing any more.
But I completely agree that beyond a point, expansion will only be possible by offering incentive to fly. And like they say, in the long run, it is far cheaper to retain an existing customer than to onboard a new one.
Sep 12, 2012 | 7:06 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: AY Platinum, EK Gold
Posts: 177
That is largely due to the way you can earn Qantas FF miles on pretty much everything you do in Australia, flying is only a marginal activity in miles accumulation. The same applies to other Australian FF programs. With EK, the selection of non-flying ways of earning miles is practically non-existent at least to those who don't live in Dubai. And QF miles don't expire so there is an incentive to save them even if the flow of miles is slow.
Sep 12, 2012 | 7:08 pm
#35
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: OSL
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Implementation Process - 4th Tier
Another thing that will be interesting to see is how EK revamp their program to deal with QF Y+. They'll need to differentiate the class of service bonus and redemption and upgrade mileage requirements.
Sep 12, 2012 | 10:01 pm
#36
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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One benefit to perhaps come out of all of this EK/QF wedding is that it will force EK to re-evaluate Skywards (or accelerate the reform which was supposedly already well under way). Personally, I think this is a good thing because the QF program is relatively advanced, versus Skywards. (ie Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Platinum One and Chairmans Lounge)
Dont believe for a second that a small group of committed individuals cant change the environment. The US airline industry has example after example where program rules have been changed as a result of some very vocal and loud objections from communities such as ours.
I have been fortunate this year to have spent most of my time up the front aboard EK so there isnt a whole lot more they can do for me product wise. But what I would like to see is:
- A truly dedicated phone number where I can speak to someone who understands the program and who is empowered to help me fix things then and there. I am tired of being routed to India, and having to repeat myself a million times over and over again
- Family guest passes (maybe 2 a year, that's all I need)
- better award inventory, or a dedicated amount of award seats for the 4th tier
- Highest priority on upgrades (in terms of using miles, and being added to an upgrade list)
All of these benefits I listed are available NOW to Qantas Platinum One members, so in a way, EK is going to have to at least meet or exceed these features.
We've just seen QF roll over and offer Chauffeur drive for all its own J&F passengers for flights more than 12-hours. So in a way, EK is going to be forced to deliver some (if not all) of these things if it is going to deliver on its commitment to the new partnership.
If it doesn't, why wouldn't a person simply switch to the QF program. Or to someone else altogether...
Dont believe for a second that a small group of committed individuals cant change the environment. The US airline industry has example after example where program rules have been changed as a result of some very vocal and loud objections from communities such as ours.
I have been fortunate this year to have spent most of my time up the front aboard EK so there isnt a whole lot more they can do for me product wise. But what I would like to see is:
- A truly dedicated phone number where I can speak to someone who understands the program and who is empowered to help me fix things then and there. I am tired of being routed to India, and having to repeat myself a million times over and over again
- Family guest passes (maybe 2 a year, that's all I need)
- better award inventory, or a dedicated amount of award seats for the 4th tier
- Highest priority on upgrades (in terms of using miles, and being added to an upgrade list)
All of these benefits I listed are available NOW to Qantas Platinum One members, so in a way, EK is going to have to at least meet or exceed these features.
We've just seen QF roll over and offer Chauffeur drive for all its own J&F passengers for flights more than 12-hours. So in a way, EK is going to be forced to deliver some (if not all) of these things if it is going to deliver on its commitment to the new partnership.
If it doesn't, why wouldn't a person simply switch to the QF program. Or to someone else altogether...
Some US agents don't even know where some places are and I have to feed them airport codes.
(YVR to YYZ, YYZ to ADD, ADD to BKK, BKK to HKG, HKG to ZRH....)
You get the idea.
Sep 13, 2012 | 12:45 am
#37
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That happens everywhere if you go outside top 50 cities or so, they get confused. I was booking a flight to Rotterdam and had to spell out the airport code Romeo Tango Mike before they would understand.
Sep 13, 2012 | 12:50 am
#38
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney & London
Programs: UA Lifetime Exec Plat (2MM)
Posts: 744
Just look at what UA (aka CO) has done to its Million Miler flyers. They've pissed-off and lost quite a few (check the UA forum), but they are blithely pressing on regardless, courtesy of sucking up to infrequent flyers ("kettles"). It may or may not end in tears.
So all may not be what it seems.
Sep 13, 2012 | 9:59 pm
#39
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That is largely due to the way you can earn Qantas FF miles on pretty much everything you do in Australia, flying is only a marginal activity in miles accumulation. The same applies to other Australian FF programs. With EK, the selection of non-flying ways of earning miles is practically non-existent at least to those who don't live in Dubai. And QF miles don't expire so there is an incentive to save them even if the flow of miles is slow.
There are only 3 ways to earn Asia Miles in Canada, but I still try and collect then (mainly I get them from Petro Canada. I get more Asia Miles in Canada from gas than in HK and gas is more than $14/L in HK now!!!)
Sep 14, 2012 | 12:23 am
#40
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: Skywards silver :-(, HHonors Gold, IHG Diamond
Posts: 2,572
That is largely due to the way you can earn Qantas FF miles on pretty much everything you do in Australia, flying is only a marginal activity in miles accumulation. The same applies to other Australian FF programs. With EK, the selection of non-flying ways of earning miles is practically non-existent at least to those who don't live in Dubai. And QF miles don't expire so there is an incentive to save them even if the flow of miles is slow.
Sep 14, 2012 | 1:54 am
#41
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: Skywards Gold, Etihad Gold
Posts: 469
I received this mail yesterday from skywards that seems to be asking for our opinions on exactly the topic this thread is speaking about. I assume everybody now has a copy in their mailbox.
We invite you to participate in a short survey to help us to better understand aspects of the programme that you feel matter the most to you.
By helping us with this you will be assisting us to provide more of the most relevant benefits to you as a Skywards member.
To complete the questionnaire, please click here.
The questionnaire will be available online until 27 September 2012.
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you in advance for your participation.
We invite you to participate in a short survey to help us to better understand aspects of the programme that you feel matter the most to you.
By helping us with this you will be assisting us to provide more of the most relevant benefits to you as a Skywards member.
To complete the questionnaire, please click here.
The questionnaire will be available online until 27 September 2012.
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you in advance for your participation.
Sep 14, 2012 | 2:44 am
#42
Join Date: May 2010
Location: BOM
Programs: EK Plat, HHonors Gold
Posts: 3,000
I don't seem to have got this email....
Sep 14, 2012 | 3:22 am
#43
Original Poster
Moderator: Trip Reports
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Denver, CO
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Posts: 4,006
"We invite you to participate in a short survey to help us to better understand aspects of the programme that you feel matter the most to you.
By helping us with this you will be assisting us to provide more of the most relevant benefits to you as a Skywards member.
To complete the questionnaire, please click here.
The questionnaire will be available online until 27 September 2012.
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you in advance for your participation".
By helping us with this you will be assisting us to provide more of the most relevant benefits to you as a Skywards member.
To complete the questionnaire, please click here.
The questionnaire will be available online until 27 September 2012.
We look forward to hearing from you and thank you in advance for your participation".
Sep 14, 2012 | 4:49 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: EK Platinum, Iberia Gold, Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 60
Can anyone tell me, apples to apples, what do Platinum One point requirements (I think 3,600?) approximately equate to Skywards in tier miles? Thanks!
Sep 14, 2012 | 4:55 am
#45
Original Poster
Moderator: Trip Reports
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Denver, CO
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Posts: 4,006
Good question. Lets assume EK bring in their 4th tier at/or around the 100,00 tier mile mark (ie Platinum) If we use the QF logic, then an EK person would have to achieve 3 times this (ie 300,000 tier miles) in order to reach the equivalent of Platinum One.