rathin100

+1 EK BOM DXB F is almost always full....as also DXB DEL ..... Of op ups.
I understand that the load forecast is largely based on connections and point to point is therefore oversold as connecting loads tend to be more volatile. The predictive model being inherently unstable, overselling is the norm, and therefore opups, despite the fact that EK point to point prices in all classes on this sector are atrociously expensive ... Despite this demand has proven to be fairly inelastic in J

Enhanced frequencies were aimed and transit traffic but have increased, not reduced, attractiveness to high end point to point travelers. Small businesspersons also are happy to fly f or J point to point, get the car and the hotel discounts, pay in cash and launder their money, while sung the miles for vacations All this renders model predictive parameters even more unstable, IMO

Gandhi

The thread started with the question 'Does EK fill its F cabin with OP-UPs' and has now drifted (understandably) towards 'How Op-ups are handled' as this seems to be a subject of great anxiety among the FTers

Well as for the first question, think about it from EK's point of view. There is a flight leaving in 6 hours time with no empty Y class seats, only a few J and a virtually empty F cabin. A customer walks up to the EK counter and asks for availability in the Y cabin. Now there are no seats available in the Y cabin but there are plenty in the premium cabin. The ticketing agent offers J and F seats but the customer wants a Y seat. What does EK do in such a situation when it is highly unlikely it will not be able to fill up all the seats in the premium cabin? I am guessing they would opt to get Economy class revenue and sell a ticket rather than have empty seats up front and refuse revenue from pax willing to pay full fare for Y. It may irk premium class passengers but makes perfect business sense!

As for the OP-ups and how they are handled, IMHO if the computer does the work, fine, but I wouldnt expect the check-in agent to go through the trouble of looking for Golds, then Silver and then tier miles etc etc . . they are more worried about getting the pax through check-in and to get the flight out on time . . .

And just to support what I just said, I, along with two other family members, once flew Virgin Atlantic from LHR to ORD. It was our first and only trip with VS and all three of us were upgraded to Upper class upon check-in . . . No tiers nothing! We were probably just at the right place at the right time!

jackiedada

And when premium passengers decide to stop paying premium fares for a Y class experience in F, maybe it won't.

I have had that happen to me a couple of times on 9W - usually when I was one of the last few to check in. Because their FF recognition is so poor and their mileage redemption so lousy, I never fly them out of BOM to JFK/EWR even though they have a decent product and sometimes cheaper fares than EK.

rathin100

+ 1

I and quite a few others I know now fly far less EK J than we would if the recognition and value of being Gold were not near zero. This may still not matter to EK in terms of their business model, of course, and that's just fine. We can only vote with our $$$ and it would be foolish of us to try and second guess whether this is having an impact or not, as long as we maximize our returns from frequent flying.

eightblack

I doubt that the scenario you describe is the common one. EK have publicly stated that the bulk of their income is generated from the Y cabin (ie 70%). On the routes that I fly, and depending on the season - Y loads are oversold well prior to date of departure. Most airlines might/do oversell by 10% with the knowledge that no-shows will balance the load.

I am convinced that the EK oversells on the routes I fly by far more than 10% with the knowledge that the premium cabins will never be full (ie in J) and they will never oversell F.

Inventory Management and then the airport staff managing the flight on the day take care of optimising the load factor. They'll push as many as they need into J. If that fills, they push into F. Sometimes, there are only a handful of op-ups into F. There are some on this board who might disagree, but EK appear to have load management down to a fine art on the SIN-MEL-SIN sectors.

rathin100

While the SIN-MEL-SIN is a highly specific route in terms of traffic patterns, being a multi-station stopping service ex DXB picking up just fifth freedom traffic SIn-MEL, I think your points are very interesting.

In general EK (unlike BA, say) is an airline that relies heavily on its Y traffic. I would agree that they will do all that you say to get their loads up and upgrade out of Y simply because they are not pushing to attract Business Class traffic hence the crap J cabins. (they target segments, like small businesses, and do so quite well, but not the usual J traffic ie corporates, etc) They are also pushing to attract F traffic, hence the suites, being a UAE airline and indeed they do so attract from certain markets.

So if you are a J pax you get a bad deal if your expectations are not tempered by this reality, as you are squeezed from both ends. Its a bit like being on a US airline where upgrades outnumber premium pax except here the upgrades are op-ups.

Once you relaise this and fly with this in mind because of schedule and/or price all is well and you enjoy the good things (food service AVOD) and ignore the bad (poor seats, crowding, crap lounge in DXB, zero use of Gold status).

If anyone feel bad about the opups as paid J heres a suggestion: Stop buying J tickets after getting to Gold (which is dead easy in J -- Im renewed already and ive done only GRU-DXB-GRU and GRU-BKK-GIG this renewal year on EK). Spend little time and effort (and investment in Expertflyer), and book Y tickets on cabins oversold. This will allow you to become part of the great permanent Ek Business Class giveaway and save lots of money.!

SingaporeJoe

Indeed! Especially the SIN-MEL on Fridays makes one suspect Emirates has discovered a way to solve non-polynomial computational problems.

The good news is that economy is always fully booked weeks in advance, so even if my brain gets an excessive dose of radiation which triggers a perturbation jump to a disabled book_economy() function, the function returns an error and back to the first I go. IMHO, business class is not worth the $$.

GigoloArt

I am sure this is not serious, but aren't the pax in business class business people who don't pay for their tickets themselves? Why would they start telling their assistants to book in Y? Why would they be incentivized to get less miles when booked in Y)

rathin100

I said IF anyone feels bad about the opups ... So my suggestion pertained to a psychological, not financial, grouse.. I am one of these corporate flyers 80 per centof the time and always fly business. Having said that the EK product is not very attractive for corporate travel. They make a big deal about the chauffeur service but we get that anyway as a corporate standard so I ntever use it I tried to do a corporate deal with them but BA LH and the Alliances were much better value ( much of this expense is tax deductible offset. As long as the company is in profit) For small businesses on the other hand they are superb. and the car and stuff is great value for them.

whimike

I am sitting on a DFW -> DXB flight right now. No op-up to F. And, although Y appears to be mostly packed, there doesn't appear to be any op-ups from Y to J, the J cabin is nearly empty. F is completely empty. What a difference compared to DXB->DFW.

B747-437B

I've got P4 A1 J0 C0 I0 O0 Y0 E0 R0 W0 M0 B0 U0 K0 H0 Q0 L0 T0 V0 X0 showing for my ACC-DXB flight tonight. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

GigoloArt

I am sure they already plan to give B747-437B an op-up to J but with a middle seat.

I just spoke to the station manager in ACC. But sssssssssssssssshhhh!

yanny baba

I suppose it depends if you're travelling with your Chairman or not.

B747-437B

Am already booked in paid J (saver) and traveling with Chairman.

Jeez, no secrets in this joint....

yanny baba

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