Israir flies to BKK and they will not be serving ORD after April 19, 2007 so your definition of high-yield runs and their definition of profitable ones may not be one and the same.

Ok, maybe they dont have ORD, but I would consider MIA high-yeild run.

Israir flies to BKK once a week and as a charter, that hardly constitutes real competition.

BTW - Israir's business class is called "asakim" in hebrew and "premium" class in english.

Another name for the new classes ...

"This class is so that we can still say we upgrade our frequent fliers from Y to C" - the regular
"This class is so that we can say we have one of the best business class products around" - the premium

What reaaly interests me is how they plan on holding a pilot.

They really need to focus on a route or a flight number and test the flight for a while evry day.
With two 777, they can probably hold the pilot on flights to LAX and HKG.

Though i dont think any pilot will be complete without really testing it on LY001 every day.
The problem with that is that if LY decided to go back and have First, they have already lost many F pax that had to find new alternatives when F was not available during the pilot.
Maybe another option is piloting LY027 daily.

I agree with your post, but to be exact you can�t really compare BA WT+ to UA's Economy Plus.
UA Economy plus is simply a few rows in the front of Y with more legroom and that�s that.
No separate cabin, no better seat, etc

I flew on UA economy plus, nothing special at all. Same seats, same service as Y, just 3 inches more pitch.

So essentially like flying Y in the 762s to India and sitting in the area of rows 22-25 or whatnot as opposed to 35-40?

Exactly, just with another inch or two of leg room.

This is what you get when the VP of marketing's last job was to sell beef. His last adventure cost Tnuva Millions of dollars.

At the end of the day, they will have
Premium Business=Business.
Business=Premiu, Economy.

And we should tell them that even though you have a new package for an old cow, it still tastes like an old cow.

I think it's strategically stupid, because they will have to LOWER the "regular business" fares. This leaves with the corporate guy eligible for business travel with one viable options- go to the competition, who charges more, but provides a better product. I don't think it will be easy to get approval to buy the "premium" business product.

cohenyf -
How do you know the regular business will actually be premium economy?
From what I understand, they got seats similiar to those on the 767 for J class.
For the premium business they got the Sicma seats some of us saw at the event last year.
IB, SA have them in their business class.

The one's we were led to believe would replace the existing Business class seats...

I was talking about the marketing, not the interior design

Let's take a look at their logic. They can't sell F. They axe F. They don't think they will be able to fill a business class of BA style lie-flat seats. But they need it because they want the prestige of an airline providing lie-flat seats. Solution - let's have a J+ and a J- (or Y++). It's not just the seats. it will also be the food, service, #FA/seat etc.

Maybe someone who is more familiar in LY pricing can verify the data I am providing:

Y class to NYC (S class) = $2000
J class to NYC = $4152 (sounds too high, but that's what I found).
BA CW to NYC = $3500
(For a random 3 day,mid-week trip in may I just checked).

I don't think LY will be able to charge more than $4500 for J+ (I actually doubt they can charge more than CW, even though it's n/s). For differentiation reasons, they will need to make J- prices significantly lower (around $3000 list price). Should they reduce the price, they will also need to reduce the service,food, and perheaps seat pitch as well. I think this will eventually make J- into Y+.

A Class (if they use discounted F as their basis) to NYC = $6000
Scam? You betcha!

You bet they won't cos LY are gonna have the EL-Chepo lie-flat seat which angle so by the time you're ready to land. you'll find that you have a wedgy and by curled up under the seat in front of you.

No way! They won't sell a single seat. People will just wait for the planes with F.

How much is regular BF fare on CO?

I actually think they had really good intentions to offer a really good J class product from the start. I know they even considered the new seats like in VS, CX, NZ, Ac and DL. Those seats are single seats, ut they thought that Israelis prefered seating next to someone.

I am have a feeling one of the main reasons they are keeping a regular business class is so that they can still say they offer the last minute upgrades from Y to C class.

Regarding your last statement, I dont think they will have a problem charging the same and even more then BA for their J+. They now offer it as the same price and even higher and the flight are packed to NYC and LHR and they have no trouble filling them, so i dont think they will have aproblem once they upgrade the product. Whatever this J+ class will be, it will be much better then the current Platinum Class. From what i understand even the regular business will be much better then the current Platinum seats in the 777 and 744 if its true and they are going to install similiar seats that they have in the 767. The 767 have lie flat seats made by "weber" that are very comfortable with 55 and 60 inch pitch. I even think they are more comfortable then the current F class seats.