Either those who have: A--worked in the service industry, or B ---those who have not :

How do you politely, clearly and diplomatically communicate UP Front that you will tip according to the above expressed standards ?
( because afterwards it is too late)

Couldn't agree with vesicle more. Quite frankly, if anything happens on an airplane, I'm dead. No "water landings" are going to happen. FAs are not here for my safety any more than I'm there for someone's safety at my restaurant just because I know CPR and the Heimlich Maneuver. FAs are there for service (as many non-American airlines will claim). Unfortunately, many don't care about said service, so use the safety argument as a cop-out.

Chris

I'm slightly confused by the question. Are you asking how you let the server know that you're tipping before tax as opposed to after tax so they don't get upset? Or are you asking how you subtly communicate that you're a "good table"?

Chris

I am shocked by the assertion I need to 'explain' my tipping to a server. They are there to serve me (hence the name) and I will pay for the service and tip that service as I see fit...good or bad.

Am I misunderstanding your question? If so apologies.

I've found this thread quite fantastically amusing and interesting.

I come from a culture where tipping is quite new (<20 years, if that). I think we only adopted it because of cultural creep. I still have many friends who get major attitude when either I tip, or they are expected to, and rightly so. We have a minimum wage which is somewhat liveable, and different social welfare systems to north america. For a fantastic meal here, I will leave a nice tip. However, I am also one who generally cannot claim back the tip from work. Therefore an expense of me having to work to pay for the meal I am forced to eat out for due to work, I have to personally pay the tip (I know, it doesnt seem to make sense, but if you read it again...).

I for one would love to see the US adopt a system where the price quoted was the price you paid. The amount of money that disappears on tips is really rather frightening to someone trying to live on a per diem that has to be explained away. 20% of a meal, twice a day may help a server pay their bills, but it also helps me to get into trouble when I put in my expenses. While not the servers problem, I have to tip the valet, the bag boy and fifteen other people that I get nothing back from work for. It all adds up far too quickly.

To be honest, the places I've had the best service in the US tend to be the restaurants that have quality in all they do: food; environment; staff. I am loathe to tip someone $10 when they've virtually slung my food down in front of me. I am any number of four letter words that you'd like to call me, but I will leave a $1 tip, and then explain to the manager why I feel bad for my wallet even leaving that. I have a major problem getting my head around the "paying someone extra for doing their job" aspect of tipping, however I can understand that being a cultural aspect. I don't, however, think it should ever be expect that I should have to tip someone because, even though they did a poor job, they are on minimum wage and have bills to pay. If I did my job poorly, I doubt my clients would be so kind as so think that. As the job of server being hard to do, I could totally see that. However are there that many servers who are good at what they do? And just because the servers job is hard, doesn't mean all those people sitting at the tables don't have their nose to grindstone either.

Some of the higher end restaurants here have actually gotten rid of casual staff, and every member is salaried. They do not rely on tips, and I believe in most the tips are spread evenly between all staff. It's certain not to work in all situations, but certainly makes for an interesting idea.

Oh, and I had a bottle of chateau d'yquem 2001 not long ago. And I didn't tip the server for it. But I did tip the sommelier :)

Agreed. The whole "tip" thing is just legitimised extortion.

^ great post abcederia

tipping is a cultural thing
 

I agree, great post abcederia. I feel the same in that a tip should not be paying someone extra for doing their job. Service is part of going to a restraurant. A tip is a gratuity, a gift, not mandatory.

I went out tonight for dinner (I am travelling, as in happytravelling) and was shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you to see a service charge on the bill. Okay, it was only 10% and I still left a tip on the table, but the server hovered at a respectfull distance and was great. You don't have this kind of service in the US.

I would like clarification on something that was posted earlier which might influence many people. Someone claimed that they received less than minimum wage as a server. I did not think this was legal, but if so, could someone explain if this is true?

This thread (along with most tipping threads on FT) totally cracks me up.

I'm not sure which part I found funnier "amateur diner" (vs professional diner?) or the thought that someone has to have a cash incentive in order to do their job properly.

Do people in the restaurant/bar industry tip their doctors? Their dentists? their UPS or Fedex delivery people? I hope so! :D

To define:

Amateur diner = waits in line for 2 hours to get a club sandwich and water with lemon, maybe a glass of White Zin if they're splurging

Experienced diner = aperitif/cocktail to start, wine with dinner, a couple courses, maybe an after dinner drink

And, quite frankly, I do think (more often than not) someone has to have a cash incentive to do their job properly. It might not be in tip form, but more often in salary form too. You can't tell me that the kid down the street working at McDonald's making his $5.15/hr is getting paid to provide great service. It's tough to motivate someone to want to do their job better when they're getting paid on that level.

The CEO of a company making 300K a year obviously has to provide some tangible benefits to those who provide his employment in order to keep his job and salary level. If the Board of Directors all of a sudden dropped his pay to 25K a year, you're telling me that he's really going to stay motivated to provide his shareholders with profits every quarter? Of course not. If people stopped providing him with the income to which he had become accustomed, he'd bail on that job in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately American society as we know it says that instead of getting a salary, servers get tipped. If everyone all of a sudden said "You know what? Screw it. This tipping thing is dumb," and stopped tipping and management didn't compensate, there would be no servers able to maintain a coherent conversation much less recommend a particular vintage of Insignia over another.

The point I raised earlier is that if everyone wants to vote and say "Hey, tipping is dumb. We're not going to do it anymore," management would in turn add 20% to every item on the menu, and then pay the servers with a check. It'd all work out the same for my bank account. But, I have the feeling everyone would start complaining about how much food now costs in a restaurant. The fact that you actually have the ability to pay that extra mark up in proportion to the level received should be looked upon as a benefit, not a curse. If you got crappy service after they raised the prices, you'd have no recourse but to just pay your bill that night and never return. At least with the current tipping culture you have the ability to decide for yourself.

This opinion is very much a cop-out. Those people all get paid a salary. I get paid nothing to work at the restaurant. I haven't gotten a check from the restaurant I work at in my five years of employment. If I get stiffed all night, I walk home with negative money. If I don't tip a UPS driver, he's still making at least $10/hr (guessing). If I don't tip a doctor or dentist, I think they can still afford their green fees.

I didn't create the system. I just try and educate people on the topic.

Chris

I don't believe you - you get NOTHING?
 

You don't get negative money, you get less money than if you had received more tips. With that sort of fuzzy thinking, is this how you believe you get NOTHING for being employed?

I posted a question asking if servers get less than minimum wage. Noone replied. I then did some research and found that at least in CA, mimimum wage applies to everyone,at least by law. If you are not bright enough to work for a place that gives you NOTHING, then you are not bright enough to educate people on the topic. Does anyone else want to comment on someone who works for NOTHING? Does the state (you can only live in the US with such an entitlement view) allow you to get less than minimum wage? Why do you continue to work there?

Explain this to me. As I asked in an earlier post, if servers do not even get minimum wage, then I am open to increasing my tips, but you, I do not believe.

I worked my way through college serving in a medium chain restaurant (think: better than Chillis, below Mortons).

JayhawkCO is completely truthfull that there are times where you could walk out of the restaurant with negative money. The restaurant only pays you $2.13/hour. The $2.13/hour quickly gets eaten at by tip-share and taxes. When your tip-share is a % of sales (and at our place usually $5-$10 per food runner, regardless of how busy it was) its very easy to get into the negative territory on a bad night. The restaurant in essence doesn't pay you "nothing" but your tips are subsidizing their meager wages to those who don't directly earn tips (bussers, etc.) through tip-shares, which push you into negative earnings.

Someone commented earlier about declaring cash tips for taxes. Many restaurants are now on electronic systems. At our restaurant if you went below a certain threshold of reporting cash tips you'd get written up. The restaurant knew on average you'd make at least 12% after all tip-outs so if you declared less than that you could get in-trouble or fired.

For anyone who thinks a 15% tip before tax is a "good" tip, you're wrong. If I got 15% pre-tax (so lets call it 13% post tax) I probably would not have been too happy. 15-20% after tax was OK and above was very nice.

Servers remember the bad tippers too, so beware. ;-) As I think they said in the movie Waiting "Don't f*** with those who are handling your food!"

truth appears to be in the eye of the beholder
 

As I said before and you have reinforced, you don't get negative money, you get less money than if you had received more tips. Maybe you are imagining this as "I get less money than if I had received minimum wage"?

That being said, I do appreciate the first response to my question as to whether servers get below minimum wage. And you should beware too. If you find that you sit in jail awaiting trial for f*** with a customers food, you will have ample opportunity to ask yourself "was it worth it"? I doubt your explanation will sit well in court.

I still don't totally agree with your view on the topic. I do not get paid anything extra to do my job properly. The incentive is my salary, which is what I am contractually obliged to do. If I do not do my job, I do not only get a proportion of my salary, as you suggest servers should, I get given the arse. You are totally correct with saying, that you can't motivate on a poor wage. You get what you pay for. And to be quite honest, the majority of underpaid servers that I've had the pleasure of dealing with aren't simply underpaid, but are underskilled, and not going to get a decent tip. If everyone started tipping 18% to all servers, would the surly attitudes be replaced with smiles and good service? Somehow, I doubt it. You pay bad, you get bad staff. Having said that, I have also gotten some fantastic service in places which can only be considered absolute dives. People that go above and beyond their basic duties of supplying me with a service that a) they signed up for and b) I am lead to expect by eating in a restaurant I have no problem in leaving a large tip. What constitutes a large tip is really a useless argument, because it differs between each person so much.

Again I say that I would have no problem with the cost of service being included in the cost of a dish. If I got pathetic servce, then you are totally incorrect in saying that I have no recourse other to pay the bill and not return. When I order from a menu, I am entering into a contract with the establishment to pay for an item. If the price of service is included in that item, I am then also paying for that, and thus the establishment is obligated to provide it. Don't for one second think I would pay the entire amount of a bill if I recieved substandard service. That is my legal recourse.

I am *not* a bad tipper. I am not an uncaring, ....... of a person. Well, sure, some people would disagree with that, but they tend to be loved ones. However if tipping is a legal requirement, then it should be built into the cost so I know the final cost when I order something. And if tipping is at my discretion, then thats exactly what it is. It is not "at my discretion as long as I tip at least 18% if they bring my food before its colder than a polar bears left ear and more if they manage to smile once and not give me a lapfull of clam chowder".

I think this is the crux of my opinion
 

Service is part of what you pay for at a restaraunt, regardless of the spin that is being placed on tipping now. That is what a gratuity means - above and beyond the price of goods and services rendered. Don't be fooled by the implicit statements here that service is not part of the price.

I again agree with abcedaria - I have worked at places, where if you DO NOT DO A GOOD JOB, you will be asked to leave. They do not give extra money for doing your job - you are expected to do a good job. Doing a good job is implicit in expecting to continue to be employed, regardless of whether the business actually enforces this view. Again, however, I would point out that some states apparently allow pay to be below minimum wage, although I do not believe this to be the case in California. Knowing that, I can accomodate a higher tip in some states, but not California unless I learn otherwise.

Then there is the threat implied by one poster saying that they will f** with a customers food if they receive bad tips and the customers return another day. You can understand the reaction of the average person - this is now EXTORTION. If I don't give them what they expect in a tip, they are going to f*** with my food! As they sit in jail awaiting trial, they can ponder the fact that they will in fact be getting "negative wages" because they are not working.