The customer doesn't pay the salary, you do - we, the customers, provide what is in effect the performance related pay..... and like anyone else on performance related pay (with the possible exception of some in the banking industry) if you have a bad time at work it will effect your performance related bonus

I'd support the other posters here asking you to identify your restaurants so that we can be sure to pay your staff for you regardless of the service they provide, if only to avoid meeting your staff in the alley.

"stiffing a waiter because their service wasnt up to your expectations" may or may not be a "low class move" - threatening your customers because they have temerity to tip according to the service is certainly a low class move.

Finally, a lesson for you as a restaurateur, there is no need waste your time banishing customers who "stiff" your staff - "stiffing" your staff, as you call it, is one of the ways we, the paying public, use to tell you WE won't be back!

No, nor does it go up if I have a good day.

On the other hand, my compensation does go up when I have a good year, and down when I have a bad year, thanks to my bonus program. The difference is, when I have a bad year and get a poor bonus or no bonus, I suck it up and take responsibility for it. I don't threaten to take anyone out into the alley.

As long as tips are based on performance, poor service will deserve a poor tip. If you don't want tips based on the quality of service, tell your customers it's a fixed service charge.

you guys are all missing the point here. if you have a bad day at work and do not get your bonus you still make a living correct? alot of people do not understand that most service personel do not make more than a few bucks an hour. not enough to live on. tips are a part of their salary. as far as the alley comment...obviously no one is getting beat up for not tipping. i do not get paid to fight anymore.

That makes a lot of sense - in hotels one doesn't tip the bell staff more for bringing a piece of Louis Vuiton luggage to the room than they would for their Samsonite.

If my salary was based on commission - YES ... similar to waitstaff's tips being based on performance.

It's not US that don't get it - it's YOU. We are aware that restauranteurs supplement their employee's pay by relying on the kindness of their customers to tip the waitstaff. The thing you aren't getting is that is OPTIONAL not required, and is based on the quality of provided service. If the service isn't up to par, NOT leaving a tip is absolutely our option.

lol. it should be required. what i observe, in the real world, is people will always find something to complain about and you can never please every/anyone. read these forums..."i didnt get a pillow", my water was warm", "they forgot my ice", "i didnt get my upgrade". i'ts endless. to be honest i dont know how you folks who must fly for a living do it. i would kill someone. i was lucky enough to play a sport for a living. i got paid stupid amounts of money for doing something that really is not important in real life. i do not belong in the "upper class". i despise people who look poorly on others simply because of the job they may do. i have a huge soft spot for folks who are at the bottom of the labor ladder. i think they have a sh*t job trying to please people that can't be pleased. it never hurts to give someone the benefit of the doubt and the few extra dollars you throw someones way may be a big deal to them even if your eggs were a little runny. looking for ways to justify being cheap makes my skin crawl. alot of people here are flying on expense accounts anyway. not like it costs them anything. i understand that people work hard for their money and if they cannot afford to tip well then maybe they should eat at home. touchy subject with me and i guess that's my problem. my blood got boiling when a poster made a comment about "a poor server" as if to imply he was better than that person. if he did not mean it that way i am sorry i took it that way and do apologize. i also understand this is a public forum and we all will have many different views. not saying mine is right or wrong. it's just the way i see it.

Whilst it is OK to claim back the cost of a meal it is not always the case that an individual is able to claim back the tip via expenses unless there is a mandatory service charge.

I'm sorry for anyone who is forced to make their living from an occupation which pays below par wages and is forced to give 200% just to get a decent wage, but it does get out of hand. I recall a debate a few years back (on another forum) that centred around tipping of porters at US airports - the consensus of what was reasonable was such that I calculated that for a 40 hour week a porter working at an average rate could expect to earn over $150,000 dollars a year, in tips.

And about helping people out on performance related pay? Where will it end - Do I tip the salesperson of my car or furniture when I haggle the price down, knowing that the fact they have reduced the price for me may impact on their commission?

In the real world, I'd like to think that there are relatively few people who knock the tip down for relatively minor mistakes - but if things really do go wrong, and if it particularly is the fault of the wait staff you will NEVER convince me that I should pay the tip nomatter what. Even in places with a fixed service charge (and it has only happened once in 40+ years) I would be calling the GM over and negotiating the overall price I paid.

What it should simply be reflected in the menu prices - not a mandatory tip or service charge that only appears after you order (or requires you to do math.)

The ONLY financial advantage to the current system is that you don't pay sales tax on the tip amount.

The staff is never wrong and the management is never wrong?

Tell me, would this be the Bada Bing in Lodi, N.J.? :D

If it is, tipping the dancers is by hand exchange only.

I always tip, pre-taxable amt. You are the only other person I have come accross in years to share this viewpoint.

Whew! :D
really though-the reasoning behind this is that the waitstaff nor anyone involved in the preperation of your meal has any hand in the tax-it is just there regardless of the quality of the meal or the apptitude of the server.
No reason to include it when figuring the tip.

Yes, tipping on tax is just silly. Are they forwarding that part of the tip money to the "man"? ;)

I tip 20% on everything, including the tax. It's really not all that much, now is it?

However, I NEVER tip on top of the "included" tip amount - that's just a personal policy. And I'm very careful about reading the bill - I used to be a waiter too. ;)

I hold those who make arguments for skimping on tipping in very low regard. Very low regard. :mad:

I thought most people tipped on the pre-tax, not the post-tax amount?

I don't mind when they precalculate 15-18% on the post tax as long as the service is good, though, as I usually tip 20% for good service and while the tip amount goes up somewhat it is still less than 20% I'd tip otherwise.

What I WON'T do is tip up to 20% total if they precompute it.

If "just OK" service that I'd usually tip 15% on the pretax, it's a percent or two, and I'm not going to make a big deal about it except on a very large bill.

If it's worse than just OK, I might well talk to the manager.