tipping cheat
 

I had dinner with my family in Westin Market Street, San Francisco. We were total five persons.
When I received the check, I went it through as I allways do.
I noticed that there was service charge added in that check. The waiter did not mention anything about that.
In that same check there was a note that they will add service for parties of 6 or more. Also the gratuity column was open.
If the restaurant acts honestly they specially make note that tips are already added, not deny it. So they clearly trid to cheat us.

This is a clever trick since only few customers go through their checks and notice that the tips are unusually way already added.
Customers usually just add tips to subtotal and pay the check.
That way the waiter gets more that double the tips.
Does he share the extra with the management, I do not know.

Is this common nowadays?

What is common is that the vast majority of restaurants don't bother to remind patrons when the tip is included, and the gratuity line on the check is typically left open. I know Hyatt Hotels room service bills specifically label the tip line "additional gratuity" to remind people that service charge is already included in the price, but that's the only example I can think of. I've almost never had a restaurant mention anything when a service charge is included.

What's not common in my experience is including service charge when the stated minimum number of people is not met. I would have spoken to the manager about that.

If you were five persons you should not have to pay the auto service charge.
I really hate this as they calculate the total including the tax-you should not have to tip on the tax.
I would rather tip for the level of service recieved rather than having to supplement some poor servers meager income.

If this had happened to me, I would have immediately spoken to whoever is in charge... as far as I am concerned, it is theft.

I would probably not revisit that establishment anytime soon either.

What's the conclusion to your story? Did you speak to a manager?

Yes. I spoke immediately with the manager-on-duty. He was wery sorry and polite. He took off the service charge and also first courses from the check.
BUT I do not know if he was also involved or was the waiter alone.
Because of that I later tried to send an e-mail to the restaurant. There is one e-mail address in their homepage www.duccasf.com. It returned to me since the address is not in use.

Shucks, in the inimitable style of innkeepers throughout history (including Bethlehem, where for an additional bronze coin, Joseph could have gotten the bridal suite instead of paying holiday rates for the room next to the boiler, the one with a hay carpet), the joint had figured out a classic con....

Only two out of every ten parties will be equipped with an careful auditor of the check (while in 3 of 10 cases, the host will be befuddled by drink), and with 7 of 10 sneaking through, double-gratutificated as it were, the manager can afford to give away appetizers to the wary from now unitl the damming of the Golden Gate to assure adequate potable and irrigation water for the Bay area (or the inevitable calamitous 'quake, whichever comes first.

I hope that you, in this particular case, did not leave a tip at all (assuming this was done with the intention to get you to double tip.) The waiter should learn that he or she plays a game of "double or nothing..."

This has been happeniing more and more. It is always '"an inoccent mistake."

I'm a server at a chain steakhouse. Let me chime in. With the computer system that we use, whenever the automatic gratuity is put on (18%, parties of 6 or more), it shows the gratuity on the itemized receipt. When you run a credit card, it will print up in the area where the tip line normally is something to the effect of "A gratuity has already been added for your convenience." Unfortunately, if, during the process of authorizing the credit card, you either exit out of the table, or reprint the receipt, the credit card slip will print out without the notification of the gratuity.

I know when I'm busy, I've noticed that I've exited out of the screen while it was authorizing and therefore it didn't print out the gratuity information. That said, if I notice this, I inform the guest about the gratuity and thereby use the tip line as an additional tip line. So, it CAN be the result of an honest mistake if the server wasn't paying attention.

That said, there's obviously some dishonest servers out there. And I'm sure some are doing it on purpose.

As a side note though, everyone please remember the auto-grat is not the ONLY tip that can be given. If you get the best service of your life, and see an auto-grat is on the ticket, don't just sign the ticket and assume 18% will thrill the server (I know, I know, we're happy with ANY tip, right? :D). Even if there's not an additional tip line, you can always add (and take away for that matter, in cases of particularly bad service).

Chris

I thought exactly same way as Michaelr. I did not leave any tip.

18% in a high end joint like the OP ate at is more than enough.
Especially when the "auto grat"is inclusive of the tax-which is just plain wrong.
I really hate this,and also being expected to tip 15-18% on an expensive bottle of wine on top of this.

I appriciate and support the working men and women of the food industry-since I have done this myself.
But there has to be a limit-and it looks like the place in the op is really testing that limit.

I would like to hear more about how "reducing" an automatic gratuity might work. I assume it requires getting management to redo the ticket and is not as simple as crossing out the gratuity after it's already been added.

Thank you in advance.

Actually the gratuity is before tax, so the server only gets about 16.4% at my restaurant. And that's before we pay tip out to pay for the hosts, bartenders, etc., so that knocks it down to 13.4%. So wait...18% is more than enough (assuming good service)? :rolleyes: Don't even get me started on the $2.13/hr.

Chris

Yea, I would say generally get management involved. If you feel like you got subpar service, or specifically rude service, I would alert management and let them know you don't feel like you received 18% worth of service. Explain your justification, and then promptly leave what you feel comfortable leaving.

Chris

I have noticed this in UK and Amsterdam restaurants, where you are even less used to reviewing the bill for service charges. 12-15% included for a party of one has surprised me more than once. When anyone puts a service charge on my bill I NEVER add any. They often miss out as I am normally a nice tipper.

I generally tip well but when an auto tip is added, i don't add any additional tip.
I guess I need to check the bills more carefully..

Keep in mind, it is not up to the server's discretion whether or not we WANT to add the gratuity. It is blatant discrimination to choose whether or not you want to add a gratuity to a table. If I see some rich looking businessmen and don't add it, and then I see some elderly people, or people of a different race and I DO add the gratuity, that's discrimination. My restaurant has a policy of always adding the gratuity on 6 or more.

I've had more than one person tell me "Why did you put the gratuity on? You're missing out." And then I tell them, "well, it's restaurant policy, not up to me, and you can of course leave more if you'd like." And then they promptly leave without anything additional. That's almost more insulting than a bad tip. I think I'm gonna start a thread dispelling the common myths of the server. It'll cut down on my stress levels at work if I can reach the masses.

Chris

If you tip on the "pre tax" amount, does the server know this is what you did? Or do they just think you left a lower "gross total" tip percentage?

Similarly, I am unsure how to calculate the tip when you have a 'corkage fee' on your bill. You shouldn't have to tip on this fee...but do the servers know that you have tipped on the food only portion of the bill? Or do they think you just left them a smaller tip on the total of the check?

90% of people tip post-tax as far as I can tell. So, your server probably just thinks you're not quite as generous.

The way I look at corkage fees is thus: your server is doing all of the "service" of your wine; you're just not paying for the wine from the restaurant. So in my opinion, I would tip on the corkage fee plus some. Let's say for food etc., your bill is $100. The bottle you brought in might go for $70 on the restaurant's wine list. So, your bill would be $170. A 20% tip (in my post-tax world) would result in $34. Instead, you have a corkage fee of maybe $15. So your bill would be $115. I would think $25-30 would be appropriate. Again, this is assuming competent service. I'm the first one to advocate not tipping well if you don't receive a superior product. Keep in mind, servers "tip out" on the corkage fee too. So if you don't tip on that amount, the server is losing money on the fact that a) you didn't order wine from them thus keeping your total smaller, and b) they are tipping out on sales from which they didn't receive a gratuity.

I think the biggest misconception of the restaurant industry is that servers get paid by the restaurant. In all reality, we don't. In most states, we get $2.13 an hour from the restaurant. But, we tip out anywhere from 3% to 10% of our total sales, which is ALWAYS more than $2.13 an hour. We essentially pay to wait tables in a restaurant. Our "employment" at the restaurant is merely their willingness to have us "rent out space" in their building. So, if you don't tip, we actually lose money on whatever revenue wasn't tipped upon.

Chris

FWIW, corkage fees are around $25 in our area. Also, we personally do not buy $70 bottles of wine -- so that would never be on our bill ;)

Well, I'll hope if you're willing to pay a $25 corkage fee you're not bringing in Beringer White Zin, so good for you :D. I like my good wine too, unfortunately most of my biggest bottles have been tastes given to me by my customers. Ahh....my 1976 Chateau d'Yquem ^

Chris

Darn! My secret is out :p

As an aside, when I was working at Wild Ginger in Seattle (very nice restaurant), I had a table pay $45 in corkage for three bottles of Yellowtail Shiraz. I wanted to puke. For the $45 from the corkage and maybe $30 they spent on the bottles, I might have been able to get them something halfway decent.

Chris

Not my problem.I will continue to tip 15% pre tax ,then if the service has been above the norm add a little.I also do not tip the 15% total on an expensive bottle of wine.
That is what I was raised with,and that is what I practice.

Well, I'm guessing if you have any regular spots that you frequent, you probably don't often get service above the norm. If the servers there recognize you, they probably reward you reciprocally.

I was raised believing a medium well was the way to order a steak and that red wine was supposed to be ice cold. (Thanks Mom & Dad! :D) I've since been educated. Old dogs can learn new tricks.

Chris

I tend to over-tip (thanks Dad)... But when I see a gratuity added (unless I feel like I am being discriminated against) I usually add a few extra bucks. You can easily make someone happy with just a little bit that shows you noticed. On a $100 bill with a 18% included gratuity you can take that tip to 20% for only $2.00. I don't even notice its gone and someone else is most likely very appreciative.

That being said, please give me the name and contact information of the waiter from the OP's complaint. Once I am made Dictator for Life of this Country, we will have him disposed of. :D

Little OT, but let me chime in here....

South Beach and Miami are notorious for this. They add 18% on ALL bills. I HATE this!

I always tip 22-28%. BUT...when they add 18% for me and a work associate 2 things happen:

1-I feel wierd filling in only 10% or so on the EXTRA tip line!

2-The dragons who audit expense reports get wierd..asking WHY I tip so much. They are LAZY and dont figure out the % if its all in one, but with the extra they sometimes catch me..and question me.


So...for me...the server makes out LESS then when they DONT add 18%

Please service charge us! We're 20% tippers, so a service charge usually saves us a couple of bucks!

Actually I return to a place because a waiter/clerk/agent has done his main job IMO-he has made me want to return.
I am not out to be liked by those whom I pay to wait on me.
Again-if service is above average the server gets a little more.
I am also one who stiffs if the service is poor/rude
People who are not meant to be in the service buisness should not be encouraged.
And why should someone who orders something expensive-but takes the same amount of work as a lesser priced item be robbed at gunpoint?This whole percentage thing is just a guide-not a rule.

Having been here for almost a week now I'm finding that 90% of Bermuda restaurants add an 18% service charge to parties of any size... "for your convenience a service charge has been added." They could've come up with a better way of saying it, and you really need to be careful to read the bill since the credit card slip generally doesn't make any mention of it. Drinks ordered at the bar normally don't get this fee.

Instead of these endless arguments over percentages and such, it's so much easier to realize that there's a social norm for tipping everywhere, and said norm is different depending on your locale. At least, that works everywhere except in the US...

I will say though that it seems like there's been a fair amount of "tip inflation" happening lately. Used to be people tipped 15%, pre-tax, for good service and only hit 20% for absolutely outstanding service. Nowadays, you get people who tip in excess of 20% for mediocre service. This changes societal expectations, and in turn "raises the bar" for everyone else. I'm not a fan.

If you read one of my earlier posts, I mentioned the fact that we tip out on the expensive items, so if we don't receive a tip, we lose money. Let's say you have $100 of food and a $150 bottle of wine. You don't care to tip on the wine, so you leave me $15 on the $100 of food, and nothing on the wine-- $15 on $250. Well, let's say I tip out 5% on my food, and 10% on my wine. I now have received ($15-$5)=$10 on my food and lost ($0-$15)=$15 on my wine. By not tipping me on the wine (even though I poured the whole bottle, made sure to practice proper wine etiquette, etc.), I actually lost $5 for waiting on your table. Not to mention the opportunity cost insofar as I could have had a table in your place that I actually made some money off of. That doesn't pay bills unfortunately.

Chris

Yup, there's waiters that'll try to cheat customers; and customers that'll try to cheat waiters!

But most "play by the rules", I reckon.

It's a big old world, that's for sure!

I try to stick with local customs. At home, I tip 18-20+% post tax... never really thought about extracting the tax until I read this thread. If they add a 18% SC, then that's it for me... sorry. A waiter's beef would then have to be with the management who made the call.

My post previously was simply that in other countries where waiters are not working for tips, it is new and concerning that service charges are added. There are a couple of things that struck me on my last trip:
- Are they doing this selectively to me because they know I'm from the US?
- Are they selectively deciding what sc rate to apply because I used a Amex or Visa? As opposed to no sc or smaller sc if I paid cash..??

These things cross my mind.......

Ditto. Nor can I recall a situation that warranted 28%....but maybe we don't get out enough :confused:

"Automatic Gratuity?!?!"

That is just wrong to begin with and has always irritated me...so if there are more than a certain number of us you automatically deserve a tip? No way Jose.

Good service gets you a tip...not you adding it to the bill.

I rarely eat out anymore...the food and drinks are usually extremely overpriced and the quality is poor. Dinner party at home is the way to go!

In East and Central Europe tipping is not normally a custom but since tourists unwittingly do it they have become used to it and get pissy if as resident you don't tip...greed is funny.

Clearly you haven't had me wait on you :D. For the record, I'm in the industry and here are my standards:

• 30%+ if you give me free stuff
• 25-30% if you gave me exemplary service (great recommendations, particularly knowledgeable about products)
• 20-25% assuming my drink stayed full and my service was quick enough
• 18% if you don't know what you're doing but I eventually get my stuff
• 10% or less if you're rude or incompetent

Chris

You have to determine if it is really part of their salary before you make this kind of accusation of greed. I literally don't make ANY money other than tips, so it is not greed that drives my need for tips. It is my WHOLE income. That might not be the case in Europe, but in other locales, it is a different custom.

Chris

That's a pity. You obviously frequent the wrong establishments.

Nope...I just don't find value in paying 5-10 times more for a meal/drink than I could prepare it for myself and usually more to my taste.

And I have the comfort of my or a friend's home and don't have to worry about any of this sort of thing.