Temper tantrum at next table - what would you do?
Jan 14, 2014 | 9:04 am
#61
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It is interesting to read the comments in the linked story - so many people throw around terms like "idiots" to refer to people who would pay for an expensive dinner.
Jan 14, 2014 | 9:49 am
#62
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Here's a good example of a restaurant where one should not bring a baby or toddler:
http://www.suntimes.com/24934994-761...estaurant.html
I think there are very few places that I would not bring my daughter, but Alinea is one of them. Every parent needs to have an exit strategy if behavior starts to break down. For us, that usually means going early and ordering one course rather than three, and making sure one of us is prepared to bail with our daughter if she starts creating a problem. That doesn't work at a multi-hour experience like Alinea.
http://www.suntimes.com/24934994-761...estaurant.html
I think there are very few places that I would not bring my daughter, but Alinea is one of them. Every parent needs to have an exit strategy if behavior starts to break down. For us, that usually means going early and ordering one course rather than three, and making sure one of us is prepared to bail with our daughter if she starts creating a problem. That doesn't work at a multi-hour experience like Alinea.
Here is the chef's rebuttal
http://eater.com/archives/2014/01/14...aby-on-gma.php
As for restaurants. I only went to CC in Ca and when we were invited for birthday parties. Have never been to Applebees. BUT I would never take my kids to: Luques/AOC/Taverna ( those are the ones that I remember there).
Or in NY: Commerce/L'Atalier/ (when they were open) or Can't think of other places. I would take them ( a bit older) to Locanda Verde (too noisy a crying kid won't matter).
But I wouldn't want my kids to think that eating/dining out is the norm. It is a privilege.
Here in Paris, you rarely see kids dining out except on Sundays where it is family dinner.
I think it really isn't fair for the kid. They get hungry and bored and want to leave to play.
Jan 14, 2014 | 10:05 am
#63
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Had I been there that night I would have been furious. The parents should always have a list of babysitters and back ups. If all failed they could have left the baby at a friend's house. Oh how many times I babysat my neighbors kids when I lives in Ca.
Here is the chef's rebuttal
http://eater.com/archives/2014/01/14...aby-on-gma.php
As for restaurants. I only went to CC in Ca and when we were invited for birthday parties. Have never been to Applebees. BUT I would never take my kids to: Luques/AOC/Taverna ( those are the ones that I remember there).
Or in NY: Commerce/L'Atalier/ (when they were open) or Can't think of other places. I would take them ( a bit older) to Locanda Verde (too noisy a crying kid won't matter).
But I wouldn't want my kids to think that eating/dining out is the norm. It is a privilege.
Here in Paris, you rarely see kids dining out except on Sundays where it is family dinner.
I think it really isn't fair for the kid. They get hungry and bored and want to leave to play.
Here is the chef's rebuttal
http://eater.com/archives/2014/01/14...aby-on-gma.php
As for restaurants. I only went to CC in Ca and when we were invited for birthday parties. Have never been to Applebees. BUT I would never take my kids to: Luques/AOC/Taverna ( those are the ones that I remember there).
Or in NY: Commerce/L'Atalier/ (when they were open) or Can't think of other places. I would take them ( a bit older) to Locanda Verde (too noisy a crying kid won't matter).
But I wouldn't want my kids to think that eating/dining out is the norm. It is a privilege.
Here in Paris, you rarely see kids dining out except on Sundays where it is family dinner.
I think it really isn't fair for the kid. They get hungry and bored and want to leave to play.
I don't think it's unfair to kids to bring them to restaurants. It's part of teaching them to be patient, and that sometimes we sit down and have a meal with each other rather than playing. This is the same message we send at home when we eat at the dinner table, and the more consistent we are (whether out or at home), the easier it is for her to sit still for an hour long meal. It also helps that she's a great eater, and loves to eat anything we do. As long as there is food on the table, she's occupied.
Jan 14, 2014 | 10:06 am
#64
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I would like to hear them come forward and say, "We called Alinea and begged them to reschedule our reservation or we would have to bring our 8 month old with us and they wouldn't budge."
Can't imagine the restaurant would have tweeted the issue if they were given a chance to rectify this ahead of time.
Can't imagine the restaurant would have tweeted the issue if they were given a chance to rectify this ahead of time.
Jan 14, 2014 | 10:08 am
#65
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Forget the term fine dining for a moment. Dining establishments are not divided into "crap" and "fine dining"; there are many subtle levels between the two.
Whatever others might be saying, what I'm saying is not that kids should be prohibited from all restaurants. What I'm saying is that parents should not bring kids to any particular restaurant until their kid is sufficiently schooled in table manners to behave appropriately to that venue. And - the big and - if the kid does act up, make noise, or misbehave, the parent has the responsibility to take the kid out of the restaurant. Yes, even at the cost of ruining their own meal. Yes, even if it's a nonrefundable uber-trendy $250 upscale place.
In fact, if it's a nonrefundable uber-trendy $250 upscale place, I think it's even MORE incumbant on the parents to remove the kid from the restaurant, because if the kid misbehaves, he's ruining the experience for all of those others who paid $250 for their meals.
If your kid is capable of behaving properly in the restaurants you patronize, then I would have absolutely no problem sitting at the next table. And I have, plenty of times.
Rock vs hard place, indeed.
I find it unbellievable that one sitter cancelling at the last minute makes it absolutely impossible for a couple to find child care for a couple of hours so they can enjoy a nice meal without disturbing others. Maybe this couple is in dire straights - perhaps they're new to Chicago and have no friends, no family, and no support system of any kind upon which to call for emergency child care. If so, they should have lost the $500 they paid for the meal and stayed home.
But I doubt that's the case. I think they just shrugged it off and brought the baby with them, not thinking about how they might be affecting other diners' experiences at their own $250 meals. And when the baby cried, I'm sure the mother said, "Well, what am I supposed to do, LEAVE?"
The answer to that question, of course, is yes.
I have never complained to management about a fellow diner; if I'm being disturbed beyond my limits, I simply pack up and leave. But at such an expensive, upscale place, if someone were to bring in a baby that continuously cried, yer darn tootin' I'd be complaining to the manager and demanding that they do something about it - just as I would if there were a drunken and disruptive adult in the restaurant.
Whatever others might be saying, what I'm saying is not that kids should be prohibited from all restaurants. What I'm saying is that parents should not bring kids to any particular restaurant until their kid is sufficiently schooled in table manners to behave appropriately to that venue. And - the big and - if the kid does act up, make noise, or misbehave, the parent has the responsibility to take the kid out of the restaurant. Yes, even at the cost of ruining their own meal. Yes, even if it's a nonrefundable uber-trendy $250 upscale place.
In fact, if it's a nonrefundable uber-trendy $250 upscale place, I think it's even MORE incumbant on the parents to remove the kid from the restaurant, because if the kid misbehaves, he's ruining the experience for all of those others who paid $250 for their meals.
If your kid is capable of behaving properly in the restaurants you patronize, then I would have absolutely no problem sitting at the next table. And I have, plenty of times.
Rock vs hard place, indeed.
I find it unbellievable that one sitter cancelling at the last minute makes it absolutely impossible for a couple to find child care for a couple of hours so they can enjoy a nice meal without disturbing others. Maybe this couple is in dire straights - perhaps they're new to Chicago and have no friends, no family, and no support system of any kind upon which to call for emergency child care. If so, they should have lost the $500 they paid for the meal and stayed home.
But I doubt that's the case. I think they just shrugged it off and brought the baby with them, not thinking about how they might be affecting other diners' experiences at their own $250 meals. And when the baby cried, I'm sure the mother said, "Well, what am I supposed to do, LEAVE?"
The answer to that question, of course, is yes.
I have never complained to management about a fellow diner; if I'm being disturbed beyond my limits, I simply pack up and leave. But at such an expensive, upscale place, if someone were to bring in a baby that continuously cried, yer darn tootin' I'd be complaining to the manager and demanding that they do something about it - just as I would if there were a drunken and disruptive adult in the restaurant.
Jan 14, 2014 | 12:24 pm
#66
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I've been to Alinea. It is a mind-blowing experience, carefully orchestrated from start to finish. If I was there with a screaming baby at another table I'd walk out and demand a full refund as I left.
This is just not appropriate.
We also need to understand that this isn't a place where tables just go empty, they're pretty much fully sold out every night, and I'm sure budgeted for that number of customers. A bunch of last-minute cancellations could really hit their pocketbook hard.
BTW - I can't tell you how many times one of us spent time in the car outside a restaurant after we took our fussy infant for a little time out. Whatever happened to courtesy and common sense - this is why some restaurants in Chicago have banned the "stroller set" entirely - overly-entitled parents training their children to become the same.
This is just not appropriate.
We also need to understand that this isn't a place where tables just go empty, they're pretty much fully sold out every night, and I'm sure budgeted for that number of customers. A bunch of last-minute cancellations could really hit their pocketbook hard.
BTW - I can't tell you how many times one of us spent time in the car outside a restaurant after we took our fussy infant for a little time out. Whatever happened to courtesy and common sense - this is why some restaurants in Chicago have banned the "stroller set" entirely - overly-entitled parents training their children to become the same.
Jan 14, 2014 | 5:12 pm
#67
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As a parent of my first child who is 18mo old I am always cognizant of how annoyed I was by babies back in my single days. While you can't avoid taking your baby to a decent restaurant, you can mitigate any potential temper tantrums by bringing some toys, taking walks or the obvious solution: giving the kid food they like!
That being said, most dining experiences and extended family dinner parties are usually before 6pm and we reserve our better dining experiences for when we have a sitter.
Failing that, if the kid erupts (either in a local pizza joint or in a family friendly restaurant) it is up to one of the parents to suck it up and walk the kid around or outside to calm him down. Acting oblivious is beyond me! It annoys me as a parent just as much, and again I remember how mad I would get back in my 20s when someone imposes on your meal.
That being said, most dining experiences and extended family dinner parties are usually before 6pm and we reserve our better dining experiences for when we have a sitter.
Failing that, if the kid erupts (either in a local pizza joint or in a family friendly restaurant) it is up to one of the parents to suck it up and walk the kid around or outside to calm him down. Acting oblivious is beyond me! It annoys me as a parent just as much, and again I remember how mad I would get back in my 20s when someone imposes on your meal.
Jan 14, 2014 | 5:14 pm
#68
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I didn't get to the end of this thread, but the Alinea episode is a hot button now in Chicago. I have not had the pleasure of dining there, but would be livid if I couldn't enjoy an intimate experience there. Same goes for Next, L20, Schwa...any of the places which I would consider a splurge type dinner!
Jan 14, 2014 | 6:35 pm
#69
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My kids were raised both in LA and Paris/France. I have never taken them out to fine dining in any of those places or other cities that we would be at. Reasons:
1- Such restaurants are for adult enjoyment. There are many people who save to go and have a nice quiet adult dinner, I would't want to disappoint them by have my "very well mannered" kids there.
2-Kids IMO should know that there are adult times and family times. And need to differentiate them. They can't go anywhere, there are places that they can't go to.
3-Setting limits now helps when they grow up.
4-Table manner should not only be at restaurants but should be everywhere even at home or chuck cheese.
But everyone raises their kids differently, and I won't be seeing your kids since I don't go eat at an early hour.
1- Such restaurants are for adult enjoyment. There are many people who save to go and have a nice quiet adult dinner, I would't want to disappoint them by have my "very well mannered" kids there.
2-Kids IMO should know that there are adult times and family times. And need to differentiate them. They can't go anywhere, there are places that they can't go to.
3-Setting limits now helps when they grow up.
4-Table manner should not only be at restaurants but should be everywhere even at home or chuck cheese.
But everyone raises their kids differently, and I won't be seeing your kids since I don't go eat at an early hour.
Jan 14, 2014 | 6:40 pm
#70
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Thinking about this thread right now. I work at the Durham TGI Friday's (paying the way through law school) and there are two women here with four kids between them. Ages probably 3-10. All the kids are running around the restaurant, screaming, yelling, laughing, crying etc. and they haven't done a single thing. Two guests near me asked if I was the manager so they could complain to me. Of course the manager here does nothing and it's not my place to talk to guests sadly. Personally, if I was another customer I'd be pissed too.
Jan 14, 2014 | 7:11 pm
#71
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I beg to differ.
You can easily avoid taking your baby to a decent restaurant by finding and hiring a babysitter.
If you're unfamiliar with what a babysitter is, I suggest you try looking it up on Wikipedia.
You can easily avoid taking your baby to a decent restaurant by finding and hiring a babysitter.
If you're unfamiliar with what a babysitter is, I suggest you try looking it up on Wikipedia.
Jan 14, 2014 | 7:32 pm
#72
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Jan 14, 2014 | 8:57 pm
#73
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Thanks all the same, but I don't want to be an unwilling participant in somebody's child-training exercise. It's bad enough at an automatic checkout at the supermarket when SuperMom (tm) is training little Reignbeau Sebastian to scan groceries as the queue grows longer and longer...but please leave him at home if you're dining out after 6pm.
Jan 14, 2014 | 9:14 pm
#74
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The OP doesn't specify if the family with the child was Mexican or gringo. If the former, this is not a huge surprise - in Latin America, the cultural practice is generally to bring your kids everywhere and let them do whatever they want. It's not uncommon to see children running and yelling all over the place in public places, to an extent that would be quite bizarre in North America or Europe.
The culture is generally much more accommodating of children than it is in our part of the world. The attitude seems to be that kids will be kids, and everyone just rolls with it.
The culture is generally much more accommodating of children than it is in our part of the world. The attitude seems to be that kids will be kids, and everyone just rolls with it.
Jan 14, 2014 | 9:45 pm
#75
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Thanks all the same, but I don't want to be an unwilling participant in somebody's child-training exercise. It's bad enough at an automatic checkout at the supermarket when SuperMom (tm) is training little Reignbeau Sebastian to scan groceries as the queue grows longer and longer...but please leave him at home if you're dining out after 6pm.