Two weeks ago we went to an upscale Italian restaurant and ordered a $30 bottle of wine. They came back to say they were out of that wine and were holding a 'substitute' to give us for the same price. I immediately recognized the bottle as $3 wine that you can get at any drug store or grocery. I said we would pick something else.

Today, I was looking at a website for a nice French restaurant to try for the first time and they actually had their wine list with prices on a PDF. There was the same thing, another $3 wine for $28

I am very aware that restaurants mark up wine significantly -- but I never realized to THAT EXTENT. It's like paying $25 for TJ's Two Buck Chuck with your nice dinner. Maybe this is more common that I realize

I am NOT a wine snob. Having inexpensive wine at home as a 'house wine' or 'table wine' is totally fine. I just never expected that restaurants (not Chili's or a burger place) are serving $3 wine or that a mark up of 900% is normal...

So, if you dine out at a nice place and Two Buck Chuck were on the menu @ $25, would you think less of the restaurant?

Yes. I also think less of of an upscale restaurant if it doesn't have at least couple of reasonably-priced wines available on its wine list among the $60-100+ vintages, either by the bottle or at least by the glass.

I guess I have mixed feelings.

Would I pay $25 for a bottle of chuck? Probably not.

But in a nice restaurant, I don't find a $20 markup on a bottle to be outrageous. If I liked the wine, I don't think I'd be too upset to find it for $5 a glass in a nice restaurant.

It is however much better to get a $20 markup on a $50 bottle of wine


I was at an airport bar, and they had 4 or 5 different wines, and their price was $6 a glass for any of them. I recognized 1 to be a $7 bottle, and one to be a $20 bottle. I drank the latter

A markup of over 3x is getting to be on the outrageous side, but on the very lowest end, a markup of 3x retail for something that may be serving 3 people is nearly a loss for the restaurant. So, on the dirt cheap end, I'd expect $5 a glass on the low end, or probably no less than $12 or so for a bottle. Note that Bronco Wine Co. (parent of 2 buck chuck and many many other wines) makes a restaurant versions of wine that aren't supposed to be available retail so you have nothing to compare it to. I've seen it sell in the $20s, and is probably not much more than $12 a case wholesale.

Often, the cheaper the stuff, the higher the markup (not always) and often, the 2d cheapest wine is the worst value, because people don't want to seem cheap, so they order the 2d cheapest one.

Agreed. It's the percentage markup that I notice. I'm not offended by a 100% markup but in the OP's example I'd expect that $3 wine to be the house carafe wine and priced accordingly. We're just back from 12 days in Italy and enjoyed some quite pleasant vino di casa for no more than 6 Euros a half liter.

I've read several articles that have said that the second least expensive wine in any category is usually the absolute worst deal around.

Most people out on dates or whatever don't want to be cheap, so they won't impress their dates by buying them the cheapest wine on the wine list. They will move to the second least expensive.

Once the trades started running stories about it, many restaurants took the cheapest bottle of wine they could get, and make it the second cheapest red, or white, or cabernet or whatever.

They sell a ton of it and they make a fortune on it.

Yes, that's what you should expect, the cheapest (house) wine for anything like 10-15$ half a liter. Still around 300% more than what you would pay in a supermarket, but certainly not crazy.

I guess the % they go up with the price compared to what they paid for should go down the more expensive a wine (or generally a drink) is.

They paid 3$ for the bottle, I'm fine paying 15$
They paid 10$ for the bottle, 50$ already seems quite high
They paid 30$ for the bottle, 150$ would be way too much.

The fixed costs (administration, opening the bottle, bring/collect/wash glasses are the same, no matter how expensive the wine is, so the increase of any costs compared to what they paid for the wine should lower the more expensive it actually is. At least that's what I would think being logical..

I tend to judge a restaurant on the thoughtfulness and value applied to it's house wine. I think the way that the restaurant approaches the house wine tells you much about how it thinks and respects and likes its customers.

+1 Most of the restaurants I frequent have fairly decent house wines, usually marked up much less than the rest of the list. That is the norm in France, for example, where I rarely order anything other than the house wine.

Most good restaurants, wherever they are have given thought to the house wines. I do expect to pay for their service.

if I do not like the choices I often bring my own bottle. Corkage charges vary greatly, but the most I have ever paid was ~US$30 and that was in a very, very expensive place. At that price it was a bargain because I brought some quite special wine. No fine restaurant has ever objected when I brought my own. After all, I pay.

Two Buck Chuck at $25? I'd cringe, but I might do it, depending on the place involved. I like it.

I realize that there needs to be a markup, and I would personally not (knowingly) purchase a bottle of wine that costs $3 for $25, but the restaurant does have to make a profit. There is no way that a glass of that wine will sell for $1 (particularly at a nice restaurant), as there are fixed costs involved as well.

That said, I don't think that there's anything wrong paying $25 for a cheap bottle of wine, if it is worth that much to you. There is a restaurant which I absolutely love, but is incredibly cheap. I would happily pay 5x the menu price for that food.

I'm sure that all of us have purchased menu items with an infinitely huge markup. Pastas, for example are relatively inexpensive dishes to prepare, and may appear relatively cheap compared to the rest of the menu, yet the markup on them can be substantial. I also think its important to note that you're paying for the atmosphere, not just the food and/or wine.

In the end .... you end up in Singapore at a hawker stall. We all will eventually. Or somewhere similar. Perhaps even here at home - wherever that currently is.

We want a nice meal and a drink to go with it. That's it?! It isn't rocket science. We want to eat well every day. No celebrity to cook it. An old person who has done it every day for several generations will do. We'd like the food to be cooked lovingly and well. And it should be that way every time we visit - if it's more than once. We'd like a drink to go alongside. We may or may not want to get dressed up. This whole experience should take up no more than 10% of our day and it shouldn't take up 1% of average annual earnings.

So in the end ..... when the Chinese take us over ... hopefully we'll have food sellers on street corners under parafin lamps selling us all sorts of rare delicacies with drinks that you can afford to drink with food that you can afford to eat and daydream about. The wonder of the wok.

In the interim, BA please open up redemption availibility for my 2012 trip to Oz via SIN in F as we're desperate and 'er indoors doesn't do the back.

The 2nd worst wine on the BA F wine list often falls into this category, too

Most restaurants make no effort to find wine that pairs well with the food. This bothers me more than the markup! I'd be ecstatically happy to pay $50 for a bottle of wine that went well with a particular dish, even if I knew that wine cost $5 a bottle retail. After all if you are worried about the profit margin and markup, the best defence is to stay dry. Otherwise eat, drink and enjoy, regardless of how outrageous or inedible it is.

No. Restaurants will always mark up wine. That's not a myth. So IMO, it pays to be educated or have read up on your wines.

Thankfully we're all different and as it happens whilst I would be prepared to spend say $100 very occaisionally for the expience of an interesting wine at home ...... I'd never do that in a restaurant ..... I'd say my limit (except for champagne on the odd occaision is probably around $70'ish but normally I drink the house wine or something close in price from the wine card if it's worth the extra.

At home I find really nice wines that we enjoy that are inexpensive. I see no real relationship between the pleasure we derive from the wine and the price ..... we simply need to exceed a minimum price to ensure it's acceptable+. So none of my home wines are below say $12 to $15 or so. There's a lot of really great wine in this price range.

I eat out either because the restaurant is a place I want to visit or it's because I'm away from home and can't use my own kitchen and it's simply one of my meals during the day.

The percentage mark up should go down on bottles of wine. That it unless it is a hotel. They're often run by pencil pushers who have no concept of customer service and want to keep a certain minimum percentage on any wine.

A decent restaurant shouldn't have a wine that cheap. The wine was $3 for a reason.