I am a small to medium frame person, and I have always thought that physically very large and imposing people (men, especially) tend to be tested less. Even though we live in a society where conflict rarely results in physical escalation, our cave-man roots have programmed us to be scared of more physically imposing people. A trait that exists to this day. Well, that's my opinion!

That has been my experience since I got so big. My size tends to give people the mistaken impression that I am a force to be reckoned with.

Those who know me laugh derisively at such a notion.

The rare exception tends to be either someone as big or nearly as big as me, or the occasional little guy with the proverbial chip on his shoulder.

Unless I am working in the US for a long period, my accent tends to be a moderated accent of unknown origin. (Or if I am with Germans, speaking English, then my English is an awful German-accented one)

I suspect that people think that I am British (even in the UK they are sometimes confused) Just this week a bartender in told me that he was confused when I asked for sparkling water 'because you are British'.

That may be why sometimes American servers think that I am a potentially bad tipper, and I think making that assumption is unfair. But I've seen my colleagues from the UK treated that way. I'm used to the multi-nationality, multi-lingual nature of my work and my personal life, so I don't generally stereotype based on accent, but in this case I think that it works against me to be generally soft spoken with an accent of unknown but slightly 'British' origin (not that such a general thing really exists)

Disney parks and resorts seem per this thread to be their own weird world, so your guess is as good as ours as to whether something that would be perfectly normal and acceptable within the rest of the US is normal and acceptable there.

That said, I'd tip the way I usually do (which is anywhere between 15-20% depending on rounding, the service and the size of the bill) unless the service was particularly good or bad. I'd imagine Disney to be pricey enough that I'm paying via card and I'm more likely to aim for a precise percentage. For cheap places, on a hypothetical $20 bill the difference of 15% to 20% is going to be exactly $1, and on a bill around that size or smaller they're more likely to get a tip that rounds the total bill up or down to a whole dollar whether it's slightly big or small.

I've went to Disneyland a couple of times in the early 2000s, but have never eaten on-park anywhere but a walk-up snackbar -- too many cheaper, better restaurants off-park in Anahaim.

As far as I know, there's no legal requirement that they pass a service charge on to the servers.

The problem is that Disney had taking over-tipping to the extreme, and built in mandatory charges for many of their meals, tours, cruises, etc. If one is on a dining plan as a park visitor, or has a frequent diner card, certain party size, etc. (As you may not be aware, that poster is at the Disney DVC property on Oahu at Ko Olina, which was a disaster from the start complete with legal issues and firings and was already partially rebuilt and menus retooled due to the massive complaints, which some of us predicted would happen long before opening)

Having them removed can take a very, very long time and be very difficult, I believe intentionally so, in order for people to give up and just pay the 20%. I consider that extortion of mandatory tipping at its worst. If the food quality and service was more than crappy to mediocre, I wouldn't mind so much, but the quality and variety has plunged in recent years to abysmal levels.

And again, as a server, who worked buffets 2-3x a week, I don't agree with tipping more than about 10 percent at buffets in the US (and less than that if at all outside the US) Yet that falls into Disney's mandatory tipping policy of 18-20 percent, and many of the Disney fandom would say that it is more work for a server to work a buffet (it really, really isn't, unless perhaps one is working at Golden Corral or one of those places which doesn't have much service to begin with)

Friendly moderator note:

I have tried to keep a light hand on this thread, despite the fact that a thread on FlyerTalk will probably not, in fact, end the practice of tipping.

However, several posts became unnecessarily personal or have been trending toward political characterizations and argumentation better suited for the OMNI/PR forum.

I have deleted a number of posts that were off-topic, snarky, or unduly personalized.

If there is anything more that is civil, thoughtful, and respectful on the topic to be said, feel free. Otherwise, this thread may have to be closed.

Just a, uh, tip, for all

cblaisd
Moderator, Dining Buzz

Thanks cblaisd.

I'm not sure if I've told this before on FT, but a friend of mine used to deliver pizza a few years back, at a place that charged for delivery. Every time someone tried to tip him, he'd (literally) yell at them that it's ridiculous, they're paying so much, no reason to pay any more, etc... some customers tipped anyway.

Have to agree..

But on the other hand, I'm quite surprised with the food costs in comparison to other hotels we frequented during this trip. For example, Fairmont Kea Lani charges $34 pp for their breakfast buffet which we attended everyday.. child is $15. We just had a character breakfast for $32 per adult and $16 per child. Anyday of the week, I'll take the character breakfast (even without the characters) over the Fairmont Kea Lani breakfast buffet.. which btw was the same spread as Hyatt Regency Maui, but at HR Maui, its only $25.99 pp.

At Aulani, you can get shaved ice with three flavors, condensed milk, and ice cream on the bottom of the bowl for $5.25. A bowl of frozen yogurt ice cream for $4. At Kea Lani pool side, a milk shake is $8. At Grand Hyatt Kauai, a milk shake is $10. Pool food at Aulani is relatively inexpensive compared to Fairmont Orchid. A burger is $14, chicken strips is $9.95, kids meals are all $7.. try about double at the Fairmonts, and the Grand Hyatt Kauai.

Dined at Ama Ama at Aulani today, and the lunches were fine dining exquisite.. about $19/$21 for the entrees.. ocean front. At the Fairmonts and Hyatts.. Try about $10 at least more per entree for lunch. Had the specialized Donburi and Soba noodle salad local lunch plate.. ymmmm.

With these prices, I was more than happy to tip 18%. The kids meals at Aunty's Beach House for the kids was only $8.55 with tip. Extremely inexpensive and surprising for kids meals.
Disney is its own crowd, even within Disney.. At Disneyland Paris, I thought tip was included, so I never tipped.. long and behold, it was expected I bring cash to tip employees.. I never bring cash, only have cc's on me.. So I never had money on hand to do what was customary. All employees acknowledged it was ok as their hands were tied to being able for me to charge tip onto credit card. There was probably 10 restaurants in Europe I mentioned that I had no money on, so the only way I can tip is on credit card. Half of those restaurants just said it was fine, because there was nothing they could do.

Well, if a restaurant pockets the service charge and doesn't pass onto to the servers what they collect.. the restaurant will quickly lose good service people. Even I would never tip beyond a mandatory service charge.. because my thinking is that the service charge is the required tip.. no more no less.

Is it me or has this thread gone from being "how to end tipping" to "how to justify tipping" ?

Apparently so! I suppose that now we know why tipping will never end

That is only due to the massive failure after opening and having to rework so much, including menus and prices. (Not to mention reconstruction only a very short time after opening the resort)

I really don't understand this. This is the French Paris, not the Texas Paris. Again, there is no obligation to tip in France. You were not 'expected' to bring cash to tip as a tip is not required. It's not as if Disney is in its own universe; outside the US parks there is no obligation to tip.

No, they won't lose the good servers, because tips are not expected, and because the server doesn't work for the tips.
This directly contradicts what you said above, in relation to tipping in France.

For those who think that it is wrong, and culturally insensitive for visitors to the US not to tip, doesn't the reverse hold true as well?

There seems to be lots of people out there tipping such large amounts that it enables bar staff in hotels boasting that they earn several times what the their bosses earn for pouring a few drinks and keeping the free snacks topped up. Elsewhere people seem to think it is quite reasonable to tip sums that are totally disproportionate to local wages (a tip equivalent to about 30x the daily wage in Asia I read on a forum a few years ago). These people seem happy to tip such large amounts and for various reasons seem reluctant to reduce tipping.

This is good news, for me. Thank you for your generosity.

I can sleep easily now knowing that these staff that I thought were penniless are earning good money and therefore I don't feel the need to top their wages up by tipping for routine service or for opening an already overpriced expensive bottle of wine anymore safe in the knowledge that others are doing it on my behalf so well.


I'll still tip for good service but If you are concerned that my lack of tipping for routine service will lead to undue hardship for staff then perhaps it may be wise to increase your standard tip to maybe 25-35% to compensate for people like me who no longer feel the need to keep the barman in is Lexus.

I thought that my 6DM/hour for my lowly Commis de Rang position was a huge salary, and although it wasn't a long term career goal, if it had been then the training and experience was at least worth that if not more.

Other than the occasional American bra-stuffer, we didn't get tipped, and this was even with a very high end clientele.

Tips didn't impact the service we provided. (If one didn't maintain a very high standard one wouldn't have survived in that environment, but one didn't work for tips)

It's not just you.
I also don't like the practice, and that's why I do something about it.

Probably depends on the time zone and who's posting when.
I don't see it ending in the USA soon and I don't have a problem with it there (for restaurants at least) as it's structural.

Asia is a large place...
You could mean some of the saikang jobs in Bangladesh or some of the average salaries in SIN/HKG/TYO of >USD 6000.