SkyMiles Medallion™ Program Changes- from the Source
Dec 22, 2002 | 6:36 am
#181
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by obscure2k:
I am mulling this over and over---stay with DL as a PM, whose benefits are about to be eviscerated.... </font>
I am mulling this over and over---stay with DL as a PM, whose benefits are about to be eviscerated.... </font>
If I were in LA, I would absolutely switch to United. (I'm in NY/NJ and have done exactly that.) United won't disappoint you.
Bruce
Dec 22, 2002 | 6:59 am
#182
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,917
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
Eviscerated! A marvelous and perfectly chosen word perhaps making its first appearance on Flyertalk.
If I were in LA, I would absolutely switch to United. (I'm in NY/NJ and have done exactly that.) United won't disappoint you.
Bruce</font>
Eviscerated! A marvelous and perfectly chosen word perhaps making its first appearance on Flyertalk.
If I were in LA, I would absolutely switch to United. (I'm in NY/NJ and have done exactly that.) United won't disappoint you.
Bruce</font>
Dec 22, 2002 | 7:03 am
#183
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I read everything on the Delta board, without exception. I guess I just didn't react to that word until this morning. Sorry! Still, it is so appropriate right now!!!
Bruce
Bruce
Dec 23, 2002 | 12:06 am
#184
Moderator: Delta SkyMiles, Luxury Hotels, TravelBuzz! and Italy
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 27,016
--LexPax, thanks for the words of advice. I will do a bit of homework and see what options are available out of LAX. To Bruce and Robert, "eviscerated" just popped into my head when I was preparing a chicken last night. The analogy seemed timely.
Dec 23, 2002 | 7:40 am
#185
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Programs: Delta GM/1.5MM ~ United Silver ~ Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,434
Donna,
Have you priced flight through, say, LGA? It may sound ridiculous, but you may want to buy insULT fares and route yourself through LGA and fly MCO-LGA-RSW. Heck, you get to spend a ton of time in the comfy DL coach seats, and earn more MQM miles than a direct flight - and the cost may be the same, or gosh, even cheaper !!!!
Have you priced flight through, say, LGA? It may sound ridiculous, but you may want to buy insULT fares and route yourself through LGA and fly MCO-LGA-RSW. Heck, you get to spend a ton of time in the comfy DL coach seats, and earn more MQM miles than a direct flight - and the cost may be the same, or gosh, even cheaper !!!!
Dec 23, 2002 | 11:52 am
#186
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boynton Beach, FL, USA
Posts: 4
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ptcflyer:
Additional Conclusions from Changes:
1. More of us will probably earn status (Gold) on multiple carriers instead of being loyal to one.
2. Each of us will now use a larger variety of criteria for our individual flight selections. (Price, schedule, comfort in coach, upgrade options for a given situation, total cost of flying with and without upgrades, value of our time by avoiding connections, reconsideration of driving instead of flying, etc.) Before... it was DL because I want to earn/use Platinum benefits!
3. This total change really exposes DL's competitive disadvantage... It's coach product and SGB culture. But DL, may figure that its schedule makes up for it. If there is a three way alliance with CO and NW locking up 35% of the market... They are going to say..."So whatcha going to do about it?"
4. These changes really provide incentive for frequent flyers to also give the low cost carriers a try. In this new world, there will be far less blind loyalty because of FF programs. Now, each carrier has to earn our loyalty in terms of quality of service, schedule, friendliness, culture, and PRICE on a flight for flight basis. Many folks are right now are chanting... GO JET BLUE! as JB seems to be getting the above elements correct. I usually enjoy my SWA flights as well.
I hope that DL and the other majors besides AA) are adding the capital expenditures to their budgets that they are going to have to make to make their coach cabins competitive with inseat video and Directv. DL's LCC strategy better be a real hit, because they are going to have to convert their mainline service to this model with no turning back.
5. DL' strategy, I believe, is saying: PM/GM/SM gives you the privileges of paying to upgrade. We'll give you complementary upgrades on 25% of your flights. The rest are up to you to pay for. If there are not enough takers, DL will simply expand the ranks of premium medallions until they get enough upgrade takers. (They can always expand the ranks by offering double qualifying miles for certain periods / routes, etc.) If DL can not generate enough revenue through this tactic, they will simply accelerate the LCC implementation and eliminate domestic First Class altogether.
6. Coming to Close: The era of riding up- front on reasonably low fares on most of our flights is over! I think that the major airlines are collectively saying, "we can no longer afford this business model." Now, they prefer to use mass marketing to get "any- butts-in-seats" instead of using upgrades and other ff perks to get the "same-butts-in-seats" over and over again.
7. Optimistic frequent travelers and business travel departments can now chant "Free at Last... Free at Last..." we are free to make better economic decisions for ourselves and not based on frequent flyer bribes. Our criteria will be: fares, schedule, etc. An honest Flyertalker has to admit that these programs are rather addicting. Breaking the addiction will be painful for a while (See all the notes in DL Flyertalk!) but probably beneficial. (This addiction goes both ways). Two questions remain: Can we successfully break our addictions and can the Majors like DL really execute their sales/marketing engines, flight performance, quality of service/product to compete with the new low cost carriers. Because with these ff changes, they will have to lose their addiction to blind loyal frequent flyers! Can they execute under those conditions? Time will tell. I've said before that DL began evaluating your value on a flight by flight basis as opposed to the long-term relationship. Now, we in turn, will increasingly evaluate DLs value on a flight by flight basis.
8. It will be interesting to study how many revenue passenger miles will be forever lost: a. Fewer mileage runs b. frivolous trips (business and pleasure) because the traveller was trying to earn/maintain status c. More direct non-stop travel as opposed to making the connection to stay loyal to a carrier. d. More driving on 200-300 mile trips because the hassels of flying without the perks is too much to bear. Are their enough families flying to Disney or to see grandma to make up for this decrease?
9. Are the government and airport authorities catching on to these trends. Their are apt to be a lot fewer flyers paying the $3 surcharges and $2.50 segment fees, and less "landing fees" from the decrease in Passengers that connect with their past favorite carrier to earn the segments and stay loyal. There will be more carriers flying point-to-point...with less fees collected by airports and the FAA.
10. What will the revenue impact be on the international side for all constituents with fewer mileage runs? I know that fully 30-40% of my international travel during the past few years was mileage related.
11. Can the major airlines pare their schedules, and replace their mainline fleets with RJs on most business routes and LCC flights on tourist routes fast enough and at the same time, pay for all of their other planes and new plane order cancellation penalties without going bankrupt! My bet is not with the airlines.
If you look at the entire industry, it will become a lot more efficient. Travellers will be traveling from point a to point b directly, no more frivolous flying to make the next real trip more comfortable, more focus on the value of transportation in stead of status, etc. Good news, it will definitely be better on our physical environment.
What do you think?
[This message has been edited by ptcflyer (edited 12-12-2002).]</font>
Additional Conclusions from Changes:
1. More of us will probably earn status (Gold) on multiple carriers instead of being loyal to one.
2. Each of us will now use a larger variety of criteria for our individual flight selections. (Price, schedule, comfort in coach, upgrade options for a given situation, total cost of flying with and without upgrades, value of our time by avoiding connections, reconsideration of driving instead of flying, etc.) Before... it was DL because I want to earn/use Platinum benefits!
3. This total change really exposes DL's competitive disadvantage... It's coach product and SGB culture. But DL, may figure that its schedule makes up for it. If there is a three way alliance with CO and NW locking up 35% of the market... They are going to say..."So whatcha going to do about it?"
4. These changes really provide incentive for frequent flyers to also give the low cost carriers a try. In this new world, there will be far less blind loyalty because of FF programs. Now, each carrier has to earn our loyalty in terms of quality of service, schedule, friendliness, culture, and PRICE on a flight for flight basis. Many folks are right now are chanting... GO JET BLUE! as JB seems to be getting the above elements correct. I usually enjoy my SWA flights as well.
I hope that DL and the other majors besides AA) are adding the capital expenditures to their budgets that they are going to have to make to make their coach cabins competitive with inseat video and Directv. DL's LCC strategy better be a real hit, because they are going to have to convert their mainline service to this model with no turning back.
5. DL' strategy, I believe, is saying: PM/GM/SM gives you the privileges of paying to upgrade. We'll give you complementary upgrades on 25% of your flights. The rest are up to you to pay for. If there are not enough takers, DL will simply expand the ranks of premium medallions until they get enough upgrade takers. (They can always expand the ranks by offering double qualifying miles for certain periods / routes, etc.) If DL can not generate enough revenue through this tactic, they will simply accelerate the LCC implementation and eliminate domestic First Class altogether.
6. Coming to Close: The era of riding up- front on reasonably low fares on most of our flights is over! I think that the major airlines are collectively saying, "we can no longer afford this business model." Now, they prefer to use mass marketing to get "any- butts-in-seats" instead of using upgrades and other ff perks to get the "same-butts-in-seats" over and over again.
7. Optimistic frequent travelers and business travel departments can now chant "Free at Last... Free at Last..." we are free to make better economic decisions for ourselves and not based on frequent flyer bribes. Our criteria will be: fares, schedule, etc. An honest Flyertalker has to admit that these programs are rather addicting. Breaking the addiction will be painful for a while (See all the notes in DL Flyertalk!) but probably beneficial. (This addiction goes both ways). Two questions remain: Can we successfully break our addictions and can the Majors like DL really execute their sales/marketing engines, flight performance, quality of service/product to compete with the new low cost carriers. Because with these ff changes, they will have to lose their addiction to blind loyal frequent flyers! Can they execute under those conditions? Time will tell. I've said before that DL began evaluating your value on a flight by flight basis as opposed to the long-term relationship. Now, we in turn, will increasingly evaluate DLs value on a flight by flight basis.
8. It will be interesting to study how many revenue passenger miles will be forever lost: a. Fewer mileage runs b. frivolous trips (business and pleasure) because the traveller was trying to earn/maintain status c. More direct non-stop travel as opposed to making the connection to stay loyal to a carrier. d. More driving on 200-300 mile trips because the hassels of flying without the perks is too much to bear. Are their enough families flying to Disney or to see grandma to make up for this decrease?
9. Are the government and airport authorities catching on to these trends. Their are apt to be a lot fewer flyers paying the $3 surcharges and $2.50 segment fees, and less "landing fees" from the decrease in Passengers that connect with their past favorite carrier to earn the segments and stay loyal. There will be more carriers flying point-to-point...with less fees collected by airports and the FAA.
10. What will the revenue impact be on the international side for all constituents with fewer mileage runs? I know that fully 30-40% of my international travel during the past few years was mileage related.
11. Can the major airlines pare their schedules, and replace their mainline fleets with RJs on most business routes and LCC flights on tourist routes fast enough and at the same time, pay for all of their other planes and new plane order cancellation penalties without going bankrupt! My bet is not with the airlines.
If you look at the entire industry, it will become a lot more efficient. Travellers will be traveling from point a to point b directly, no more frivolous flying to make the next real trip more comfortable, more focus on the value of transportation in stead of status, etc. Good news, it will definitely be better on our physical environment.
What do you think?
[This message has been edited by ptcflyer (edited 12-12-2002).]</font>
Dec 23, 2002 | 4:34 pm
#187
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,524
Delta currently receives extra revenue for putting me in the first class seat. I pay a higher fare - sometimes a few hundred dollars higher - and give them more than 100,000 miles per year. Everyone who pays an upgradeable fare gives Delta extra money for the seat.
Dec 23, 2002 | 4:35 pm
#188
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Yes, but they want even more!
Bruce
Bruce
Dec 23, 2002 | 4:56 pm
#189
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP - US CP
Posts: 461
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
Yes, but they want even more!
Bruce</font>
Yes, but they want even more!
Bruce</font>
Dec 28, 2002 | 10:42 pm
#190
Moderator: Delta SkyMiles, Luxury Hotels, TravelBuzz! and Italy
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 27,016
The mother of all threads. Start at page one and continue through page six---Thanks UDH for attempting to clarify-- All threads and questions, ultimately lead back to this one. --
Dec 28, 2002 | 11:18 pm
#191
Moderator: Delta SkyMiles, Luxury Hotels, TravelBuzz! and Italy
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 27,016
Please read all of the pages-- you will be a much better informed Dl Flyer--Again, thanks to UDH
Dec 30, 2002 | 7:26 pm
#192
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: RSW -DL 2MM/PM, HH Diamond, MB Titanium
Posts: 109
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jeffreyt:
Delta currently receives extra revenue for putting me in the first class seat. I pay a higher fare - sometimes a few hundred dollars higher - and give them more than 100,000 miles per year. Everyone who pays an upgradeable fare gives Delta extra money for the seat. </font>
Delta currently receives extra revenue for putting me in the first class seat. I pay a higher fare - sometimes a few hundred dollars higher - and give them more than 100,000 miles per year. Everyone who pays an upgradeable fare gives Delta extra money for the seat. </font>
Right on Target! I spent over $35K on DL in 2002 - all "K" or higher - not to mention the full "Y" fares when overbooked just to get home. Never bought an insULT fare. I thought when Q/H/K fares were increased the spin was to "enhance revenue" due to upgrade opportunity availability into the F product.
Soooo... they keep the increased "K" and higher fares - now they want more money again to upgrade?
Jan 21, 2003 | 5:48 pm
#193
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Seattle
Programs: AIR: NONE, Hotel: Marriott PL, Hilton HHonors CC: Amex PLAT
Posts: 947
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by UnofficialDLHelper:
Here it all is. Please read EVERYTHING before blasting a remark that you're leaving DL (I wouldn't want any FTers making premature decisions!). There are positives, e.g. 2 Million Miler™ pax will now get Lifetime Gold Medallion™ and 4 Million Miler™ pax will get Lifetime Platinum Medallion™; L/U & T fares will now become upgradable on the day of dprt for domestic flts!
</font>
Here it all is. Please read EVERYTHING before blasting a remark that you're leaving DL (I wouldn't want any FTers making premature decisions!). There are positives, e.g. 2 Million Miler™ pax will now get Lifetime Gold Medallion™ and 4 Million Miler™ pax will get Lifetime Platinum Medallion™; L/U & T fares will now become upgradable on the day of dprt for domestic flts!
</font>
I believe they chnaged the Million Miler program to an annual silver level at 1 million, an annual Gold level at 2 million and an annual Platinum at 4 million. I did not see the work "lifetime" used at all for the new program.
Very cagey!
Mar 16, 2003 | 7:43 pm
#194
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, SC USA
Posts: 1
Look, you employees don't matter...you all treat us rudly and you don't understand the loyality we have toward an airline. If you pay for your tickets, you are loyal to someone. You get a check, but you don't write a check. There is a huge difference. You need to start sticking up for us, because we are and we will continue to leave in droves if we don't feel the airline is loyal back to us. You and the rest of Delta management need to learn and get this fact very soon. If you are loyal to us, we will be loyal to you...it is a 2 way street, but right now, we are getting screwed...but not for long...I have already flown Southwest and JetBlue and I will continue to do so. Delta is about to lose me 100%!
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by UnofficialDLHelper:
Here it all is. Please read EVERYTHING before blasting a remark that you're leaving DL (I wouldn't want any FTers making premature decisions!). There are positives, e.g. 2 Million Miler™ pax will now get Lifetime Gold Medallion™ and 4 Million Miler™ pax will get Lifetime Platinum Medallion™; L/U & T fares will now become upgradable on the day of dprt for domestic flts!
Hopefully 99% of your questions will be answered through the following links:
SkyMiles Medallion™ Program Changes
SkyMiles Medallion™ Changes FAQs
Medallion™ Qualification Changes
Medallion™ Qualification Changes FAQs
Upgrade Program Changes FAQs
Additional Rewards & Recognition
</font>
Here it all is. Please read EVERYTHING before blasting a remark that you're leaving DL (I wouldn't want any FTers making premature decisions!). There are positives, e.g. 2 Million Miler™ pax will now get Lifetime Gold Medallion™ and 4 Million Miler™ pax will get Lifetime Platinum Medallion™; L/U & T fares will now become upgradable on the day of dprt for domestic flts!
Hopefully 99% of your questions will be answered through the following links:
SkyMiles Medallion™ Program Changes
SkyMiles Medallion™ Changes FAQs
Medallion™ Qualification Changes
Medallion™ Qualification Changes FAQs
Upgrade Program Changes FAQs
Additional Rewards & Recognition
</font>
Mar 16, 2003 | 8:09 pm
#195
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 36,872
Welcome to FT, sharkman. But you're a little late to the party! 
------------------
Vasant
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Vasant