SkyMiles Medallion™ Program Changes- from the Source
Dec 12, 2002 | 3:14 pm
#151
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Delta FO
Posts: 661
Bye Bye Delta! First, I would like to point out that these new rules do not necessarily reward the highest spenders with medallion status. I fly primarily in-state, commuter flights on Comair. THESE TIX ARE NOT CHEAP. Nonetheless, I will most likely never make even silver medallion status again. However, the person who purchases a ticket for less money per medallion miles awarded will make status. Yesterday, aghast at the new rules, I figured out that, on a flight I normally take in-state, I will get 1,000 miles for the $343 fare. If I buy the fully refundable fare [there are only 2 available fares] at $659, I will be awarded the generous amount of 1,500 miles for that flight under the new system. Because they took away the segment option, I would have to fly 25 or 17 round trip flights respectively to get 25k miles to qualify for silver. However, randomly selecting a flight from orlando to san fran in january, I can spend $579 to get 3,623 miles. Where is the equity in that situation. To gain silver status, a person flying cross county on that same flight makes SM in 7 flights, spending $4,056 whereas flying on the short comair flights it would cost me $8,575 buying the lower fares or $10,983. Again, how is the new system designed to reward the person who allegedly spends the most money on DL?? Unless my math is really bad [which is possible], it would cost me 34 [cheaper fare] or 44 [for the higher fare flight] cents per medallion mile i earn versus 16 cents per medallion mile earned on the much longer flight to san fran.
Traveling primarily on Comair, I do not get to take advantage of the free upgrades very often - however, they are nice when I travel outside of the state. Oddly, even flying thru ATL, I am generally able to get an upgrade and I am only a SM - so is DL just planning to let all these first class seats sit empty. I would further note that my flights out of ATL are always way overbooked - putting me, the loyal DL customer in first class - cost DL nothing while also freeing up a seat in coach that they could not have normally sold. So, I get it, as the plane leaves ATL with 5 first class seats sitting empty, and 5 medallion members now unhappy and sitting in coach, and 5 leisure travelers still sitting at the gate fuming because they can't get home - this is going to instill all sorts of customer loyalty. And maybe they even had to pay those 5 leisure travelers for bumping them off the flight!
So DL wants us to buy more expensive tickets. When I travel outside of the state on a real plane, I generally ALWAYS buy the upgradeable fare with the hopes of upgrading. The only time I don't is if I am traveling with someone without status. There have been a few times when I haven't been able to upgrade but its worth the chance to me. Additionally, if, as a SM I am generally able to upgrade out of ATL - then that means there are already not enough people buying first class seats, or there are not enough medallion buying upgradeable fares - so why is DL now punishing ME, and also reducing their revenue from ME by these silly changes?
Additionally, as primarily a commuter/in-state traveler on comair [where there is no possibility of upgrading] some of the most important elite perks to me are the ability to have a special check-in line, and the ability to board the plane before others do when i am flying on a real plane. The check-in features is invaluable to me as a frequent business traveler. I have neither the time nor the interest in standing in line an hour or two behind billy-bob and his 5 kids who fly once a century and take 45 mins at the counter to figure out what they are doing. In Orlando, the normal line is usually tremendously long whereas I can checkin in the medallion line in usually 5 mins. Rather than using that valuable time in the crown room working - I am stuck in line - makes alot of sense to me! The availability of better seats on the plane is also important to me. These two features are two of the primary reasons why I continue to fly Delta to keep my status, even when I could fly cheaper on another airline. As I see it, if I am forced to sit in the back-row middle coach seat with every one else, and I have to stand in the checkin line for 2 hours for the privilege of doing so, I may as well spend as little money as possible on another airline -- or drive.
After this earth shaking news yesterday, I realized there is little if any possibility I can fly enough to maintain my status at delta. Unfortunately, some of the cities I fly to, DL is the only option in terms of airlines. However, in calculating the extra time it will take me to check in, some of the places I may as well drive to - I can rent a car for $100 to avoid putting miles on my car, avoid spending on average the $350 cost of a tix, the $100 i spend on the rental car in the city I fly to, and get there and back in the same amount of time at less costs to my client.
So, for benefits that are important to me as a business traveler and yet COST NOTHING TO DELTA - they would prefer to lose me as a loyal customer. I am also a member of the crown room - another thing I can give up since I will standing in line to check in!
BYE BYE DELTA
Traveling primarily on Comair, I do not get to take advantage of the free upgrades very often - however, they are nice when I travel outside of the state. Oddly, even flying thru ATL, I am generally able to get an upgrade and I am only a SM - so is DL just planning to let all these first class seats sit empty. I would further note that my flights out of ATL are always way overbooked - putting me, the loyal DL customer in first class - cost DL nothing while also freeing up a seat in coach that they could not have normally sold. So, I get it, as the plane leaves ATL with 5 first class seats sitting empty, and 5 medallion members now unhappy and sitting in coach, and 5 leisure travelers still sitting at the gate fuming because they can't get home - this is going to instill all sorts of customer loyalty. And maybe they even had to pay those 5 leisure travelers for bumping them off the flight!
So DL wants us to buy more expensive tickets. When I travel outside of the state on a real plane, I generally ALWAYS buy the upgradeable fare with the hopes of upgrading. The only time I don't is if I am traveling with someone without status. There have been a few times when I haven't been able to upgrade but its worth the chance to me. Additionally, if, as a SM I am generally able to upgrade out of ATL - then that means there are already not enough people buying first class seats, or there are not enough medallion buying upgradeable fares - so why is DL now punishing ME, and also reducing their revenue from ME by these silly changes?
Additionally, as primarily a commuter/in-state traveler on comair [where there is no possibility of upgrading] some of the most important elite perks to me are the ability to have a special check-in line, and the ability to board the plane before others do when i am flying on a real plane. The check-in features is invaluable to me as a frequent business traveler. I have neither the time nor the interest in standing in line an hour or two behind billy-bob and his 5 kids who fly once a century and take 45 mins at the counter to figure out what they are doing. In Orlando, the normal line is usually tremendously long whereas I can checkin in the medallion line in usually 5 mins. Rather than using that valuable time in the crown room working - I am stuck in line - makes alot of sense to me! The availability of better seats on the plane is also important to me. These two features are two of the primary reasons why I continue to fly Delta to keep my status, even when I could fly cheaper on another airline. As I see it, if I am forced to sit in the back-row middle coach seat with every one else, and I have to stand in the checkin line for 2 hours for the privilege of doing so, I may as well spend as little money as possible on another airline -- or drive.
After this earth shaking news yesterday, I realized there is little if any possibility I can fly enough to maintain my status at delta. Unfortunately, some of the cities I fly to, DL is the only option in terms of airlines. However, in calculating the extra time it will take me to check in, some of the places I may as well drive to - I can rent a car for $100 to avoid putting miles on my car, avoid spending on average the $350 cost of a tix, the $100 i spend on the rental car in the city I fly to, and get there and back in the same amount of time at less costs to my client.
So, for benefits that are important to me as a business traveler and yet COST NOTHING TO DELTA - they would prefer to lose me as a loyal customer. I am also a member of the crown room - another thing I can give up since I will standing in line to check in!
BYE BYE DELTA
Dec 12, 2002 | 6:14 pm
#152
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 229
Folks at Delta did only half right, which in my opinion will ruin the airline than doing everything right or not making any changes at all.
What they did right is, paving a faster way for high paying customers to reach elite levels. This may piss off discount travellers like me, so we go off and find other search for options. On the other hand by making these sweeping changes they might entice other high paying customers from other airlines to Delta. This seems like a very intelligent move. But where they failed is they diluted the perks once anyone reaches these hard to achieve elite levels. Instead had they increased the benifits it might be a good move on Delta's part to steal high rev. travelers from other airlines. I hope it back fires on them in a big way.
[This message has been edited by I Fly Delta Jets (edited 12-12-2002).]
What they did right is, paving a faster way for high paying customers to reach elite levels. This may piss off discount travellers like me, so we go off and find other search for options. On the other hand by making these sweeping changes they might entice other high paying customers from other airlines to Delta. This seems like a very intelligent move. But where they failed is they diluted the perks once anyone reaches these hard to achieve elite levels. Instead had they increased the benifits it might be a good move on Delta's part to steal high rev. travelers from other airlines. I hope it back fires on them in a big way.
[This message has been edited by I Fly Delta Jets (edited 12-12-2002).]
Dec 12, 2002 | 6:50 pm
#153
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: JFK/LAX
Posts: 1,436
Here's the weird thing:
In a matter of weeks, I am off to FCO from JFK in BE on an "I" class fare that I paid $1216 for; in fact I bought 3 of them, one for me and two for guests.
Under the new scheme I will earn 17,088 base/status/whatever miles. Plus I get the double Medallion miles and the 1k for booking on line. Granted that's .04 cents a mile, but I get to go to Italy and I get to sit in BE (without using miles certs, etc, which if you assigned value to that savings would bring the cents/mile cost much lower.) IMHO, that's a pretty **** good accidental mileage run.
In a matter of weeks, I am off to FCO from JFK in BE on an "I" class fare that I paid $1216 for; in fact I bought 3 of them, one for me and two for guests.
Under the new scheme I will earn 17,088 base/status/whatever miles. Plus I get the double Medallion miles and the 1k for booking on line. Granted that's .04 cents a mile, but I get to go to Italy and I get to sit in BE (without using miles certs, etc, which if you assigned value to that savings would bring the cents/mile cost much lower.) IMHO, that's a pretty **** good accidental mileage run.
Dec 12, 2002 | 6:56 pm
#154
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: California
Programs: DL
Posts: 90
This is better than a pure dollars-based elite program (which is what the airlines really want), but Delta continues to miss the point: US and UA went bankrupt, and DL has a golden opportunity to entice their disillusioned frequent fliers.
Instead, they stir a major controversy. How many US and UA pax will be tempted to switch? By my reckoning, not as many as would have under the "old" DL program.
Instead, they stir a major controversy. How many US and UA pax will be tempted to switch? By my reckoning, not as many as would have under the "old" DL program.
Dec 12, 2002 | 7:44 pm
#155
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 58,133
Enticing high-paying passengers is fine and smart. However, penalizing those who book cheap fares will prove to be bad and stupid, for many of us do not book cheap fares all the time. Want my Js? Better give me full credit for my Ts.
And I don't think many high fare passengers are going to flock to them either. If you pay full J or F, any airline will take care of you, even if you've never flown them before. So Delta can forget about attracting those passengers. Heck, Delta has no international F anyway. And how many people who are willing to pay those YBM fares on other airlines internationally are going to flock to Delta's No International Upgrades Day of Travel Unless You Are An Employee policy? An influx of K/Q/H passengers who want to get 100% MQM and have upgradable fares? News flash, Delta. All your competitors already offer this 'perq'.
And I don't think many high fare passengers are going to flock to them either. If you pay full J or F, any airline will take care of you, even if you've never flown them before. So Delta can forget about attracting those passengers. Heck, Delta has no international F anyway. And how many people who are willing to pay those YBM fares on other airlines internationally are going to flock to Delta's No International Upgrades Day of Travel Unless You Are An Employee policy? An influx of K/Q/H passengers who want to get 100% MQM and have upgradable fares? News flash, Delta. All your competitors already offer this 'perq'.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by I Fly Delta Jets:
What they did right is, paving a faster way for high paying customers to reach elite levels. This may piss off discount travellers like me, so we go off and find other search for options. On the other hand by making these sweeping changes they might entice other high paying customers from other airlines to Delta. This seems like a very intelligent move. But where they failed is they diluted the perks once anyone reaches these hard to achieve elite levels. Instead had they increased the benifits it might be a good move on Delta's part to steal high rev. travelers from other airlines. I hope it back fires on them in a big way.
[This message has been edited by I Fly Delta Jets (edited 12-12-2002).]</font>
What they did right is, paving a faster way for high paying customers to reach elite levels. This may piss off discount travellers like me, so we go off and find other search for options. On the other hand by making these sweeping changes they might entice other high paying customers from other airlines to Delta. This seems like a very intelligent move. But where they failed is they diluted the perks once anyone reaches these hard to achieve elite levels. Instead had they increased the benifits it might be a good move on Delta's part to steal high rev. travelers from other airlines. I hope it back fires on them in a big way.
[This message has been edited by I Fly Delta Jets (edited 12-12-2002).]</font>
Dec 12, 2002 | 8:47 pm
#156
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Somewhere...
Programs: AA PLT/3MM, UA GM/1MM, DL DM/1MM, FB Plat, AS MVP Gold, WN AList+
Posts: 1,612
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
...An influx of K/Q/H passengers who want to get 100% MQM and have upgradable fares? News flash, Delta. All your competitors already offer this 'perq'...</font>
...An influx of K/Q/H passengers who want to get 100% MQM and have upgradable fares? News flash, Delta. All your competitors already offer this 'perq'...</font>
I was actually thinking today that if DL had merely adopted the AA/UA system (Good AND Bad) this wouldn't be that bad. Granted DL Y is still a Billy Barty-sized house of horrors and PM is now even more of a joke compared to EXP or 1K - but it wouldn't be that bad if insULTing DL customers were still occasionally given the chance to upgrade.
The general line I am picking up around here is that with the .50 insULT mileage rule DL went just too far.
On an aside, my Spidey senses are telling me that DL knew the uproar over this was going to be even worse than the Tsunami over the K+ upgrade. The standby news today out of UA (AA should match by the end of the week) cannot make Uncle Leo feel good about their dice roll on AA/UA matching (they won't) .5 on 14/21 Day advance fares.
For what it is worth, me thinks DL's 'throw-away' in this deal is insULT .5. Unless there is a major shift out of the rest of the majors DL will come back in the next week or two and say all DL flights will give you at least one medallion mile "because of the concerns you expressed to us".
But I expect the higher fare bonuses to stick ala AA Q points. I also expect that DL will do away with segment qualification ala AA EXP for all elite levels.
IMHO what DL really wanted out of this deal was to shift to the AA/UA stingy upgrade system. Even under UA/AA those F seats are almost always full which means most of the time someone is paying steeply with miles or $$$ for those seats.
The most interesting thing I take away from the last 36 hours is that DL has officially admitted what we have debated so many hours about on this board - in the end insULT MSU rules were an abject failure...even the DL Ministry of Propoganda is admitting only 50% (!) of all upgrades issued (presumably only those to SM's and GM's) were being used.
Sounds like a lot of PAX were taking a pass on the K+ lottery.
[This message has been edited by CoMooter (edited 12-12-2002).]
Dec 12, 2002 | 10:53 pm
#157
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: DeltaLand, USA
Posts: 877
OK....I'll just throw this observation into the mix w/ everyone else's.
Under the current SkyMiles Medallion™ Program:
Pax A:
Flys 4 segs per trip (e.g. lives in SAV and always connects in ATL)
Flys 25 trips/yr (each seg is an avg. 500 miles)
Makes *PM* on 100 segs and makes 50K base miles (and makes 100K SkyMiles for award redemption etc (100% mileage bonus))
Buys L/U/T fares, for an avg. $200/trip
He/she brings in $5,000 to DL
Pax B:
Flys 4 segs per trip (e.g. lives in SAV and always connects in ATL)
Flys 25 trips/yr
Makes *PM* on 100 segs and makes 50K base miles (and makes 100K SkyMiles for award redemption etc (100% mileage bonus))
Buys K fares, for an avg. $350/trip
He/she brings in $8,750 to DL
Under the new SkyMiles Medallion™ Program:
Pax A:
Flys 4 segs per trip (e.g. lives in SAV and always connects in ATL)
Flys 25 trips/yr (each seg is an avg. 500 miles)
Makes *FO* on 25K Medallion™ Qualification Miles (and makes 62,500 SkyMiles for award redemption etc (25% mileage bonus))
Buys L/U/T fares, for an avg. $200/trip
He/she brings in $5,000 to DL
Pax B:
Flys 4 segs per trip (e.g. lives in SAV and always connects in ATL)
Flys 25 trips/yr (each seg is an avg. 500 miles)
Makes *GM* on 50K Medallion™ Qualification Miles (and makes 100K SkyMiles for award redemption etc (100% mileage bonus))
Buys K fares, for an avg. $350/trip
He/she brings in $8,750 to DL
I know it gets said over and over, but DL is the only U.S. carrier that offers free lounge access along w/ free alcoholic beverages for *PM*s.....that adds up...my guess is at least $75M/yr
This example could be used over and over again, and it would show everytime that within each Medallion™ level, Pax A could be worth $1000 and another in the same level is worth $10,000, so on and so forth. The higher-end pax wasn't being recognized enough for the revenue they were/are bringing in to DL. The new rules do just that- reward the full Y customers- while still being somewhat fair to the ones buying the less expensive tckts.
I do agree however, the reduction of 800 MSUs to 500MSUs, then taking it a step furth and charging an astronomical amount for them (both in $$ and miles) and reducing the earning of them too; that's too far....take one of the three and run with it- not all of them. Hopefully a few weeks of letters from you guys will wake them up to "enhance" the new 500 MSU system.
Anyway...just my "unofficial" $0.02.
------------------
I am not a sanctioned representative of Delta on these boards, just an interested participant. I'm only here trying to shed light on DL issues brought up on this board. I do work for Delta, but I don't represent DL's final word when answering a question. Please e-mail Customer Care with your questions. www.delta.com/email
[This message has been edited by UnofficialDLHelper (edited 12-12-2002).]
Under the current SkyMiles Medallion™ Program:
Pax A:
Flys 4 segs per trip (e.g. lives in SAV and always connects in ATL)
Flys 25 trips/yr (each seg is an avg. 500 miles)
Makes *PM* on 100 segs and makes 50K base miles (and makes 100K SkyMiles for award redemption etc (100% mileage bonus))
Buys L/U/T fares, for an avg. $200/trip
He/she brings in $5,000 to DL
Pax B:
Flys 4 segs per trip (e.g. lives in SAV and always connects in ATL)
Flys 25 trips/yr
Makes *PM* on 100 segs and makes 50K base miles (and makes 100K SkyMiles for award redemption etc (100% mileage bonus))
Buys K fares, for an avg. $350/trip
He/she brings in $8,750 to DL
Under the new SkyMiles Medallion™ Program:
Pax A:
Flys 4 segs per trip (e.g. lives in SAV and always connects in ATL)
Flys 25 trips/yr (each seg is an avg. 500 miles)
Makes *FO* on 25K Medallion™ Qualification Miles (and makes 62,500 SkyMiles for award redemption etc (25% mileage bonus))
Buys L/U/T fares, for an avg. $200/trip
He/she brings in $5,000 to DL
Pax B:
Flys 4 segs per trip (e.g. lives in SAV and always connects in ATL)
Flys 25 trips/yr (each seg is an avg. 500 miles)
Makes *GM* on 50K Medallion™ Qualification Miles (and makes 100K SkyMiles for award redemption etc (100% mileage bonus))
Buys K fares, for an avg. $350/trip
He/she brings in $8,750 to DL
I know it gets said over and over, but DL is the only U.S. carrier that offers free lounge access along w/ free alcoholic beverages for *PM*s.....that adds up...my guess is at least $75M/yr
This example could be used over and over again, and it would show everytime that within each Medallion™ level, Pax A could be worth $1000 and another in the same level is worth $10,000, so on and so forth. The higher-end pax wasn't being recognized enough for the revenue they were/are bringing in to DL. The new rules do just that- reward the full Y customers- while still being somewhat fair to the ones buying the less expensive tckts.
I do agree however, the reduction of 800 MSUs to 500MSUs, then taking it a step furth and charging an astronomical amount for them (both in $$ and miles) and reducing the earning of them too; that's too far....take one of the three and run with it- not all of them. Hopefully a few weeks of letters from you guys will wake them up to "enhance" the new 500 MSU system.
Anyway...just my "unofficial" $0.02.
------------------
I am not a sanctioned representative of Delta on these boards, just an interested participant. I'm only here trying to shed light on DL issues brought up on this board. I do work for Delta, but I don't represent DL's final word when answering a question. Please e-mail Customer Care with your questions. www.delta.com/email
[This message has been edited by UnofficialDLHelper (edited 12-12-2002).]
Dec 13, 2002 | 5:38 am
#158
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,498
UDH,
As usual, I agree with nearly everything you say. And deeply buried in all the recent postings from everyone is one from me saying that this new system is NOT the work of morons. Delta is not crazy to want to pare back the benefits given to high-mileage, low-revenue passengers (which may include me, although I'm not as low as some, I'm sure).
But I want to quibble with one point that you make. Delta keeps harping about the free CRC membership for PMs as if that's worth a lot! I have been using the CRCs as a PM for many years now, and I like them, but I don't believe that this "free" membership is so valuable that it would tempt me to strive for PM over my lifetime (maybe!) GM as a 2MM. After all, you can BUY a CRC membership for a few hundred bucks. That certainly caps the value of a "free" membership, doesn't it? And free booze is valuable only if you drink alcohol, which I generally don't. The CRCs have no food -- or nothing edible that I would call food -- in contrast to UA's RCCs, for instance, which have snacks.
I expect that Delta will end up backing down on some of these changes, particularly if other airlines do not follow. We'll just have to wait and see.
Bruce
As usual, I agree with nearly everything you say. And deeply buried in all the recent postings from everyone is one from me saying that this new system is NOT the work of morons. Delta is not crazy to want to pare back the benefits given to high-mileage, low-revenue passengers (which may include me, although I'm not as low as some, I'm sure).
But I want to quibble with one point that you make. Delta keeps harping about the free CRC membership for PMs as if that's worth a lot! I have been using the CRCs as a PM for many years now, and I like them, but I don't believe that this "free" membership is so valuable that it would tempt me to strive for PM over my lifetime (maybe!) GM as a 2MM. After all, you can BUY a CRC membership for a few hundred bucks. That certainly caps the value of a "free" membership, doesn't it? And free booze is valuable only if you drink alcohol, which I generally don't. The CRCs have no food -- or nothing edible that I would call food -- in contrast to UA's RCCs, for instance, which have snacks.
I expect that Delta will end up backing down on some of these changes, particularly if other airlines do not follow. We'll just have to wait and see.
Bruce
Dec 13, 2002 | 6:38 am
#159
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DL: PM/2M; UA: 1K; AA: Plat/2MM; SQ: PPS; US: Plat; Starwood: Plat; Hilton: Diam Hyatt: Diam; Loews Plat; Avis: Chair.
Posts: 1,681
I've been PM since inception. I feel totally ripped off.
First, losing the free domestic upgrades at any time obviously really sucks. But now, anyone flying four overseas trips from the west coast in Business becomes PM as well. It's too easy, which will further reduce my benefits.
We should have been grandfathered. Or, a new level should be introduced that allows us to book and travel the way we've been trained to.
I'll still be flying on Delta but I'm so glad I backed myself up with 1K.
First, losing the free domestic upgrades at any time obviously really sucks. But now, anyone flying four overseas trips from the west coast in Business becomes PM as well. It's too easy, which will further reduce my benefits.
We should have been grandfathered. Or, a new level should be introduced that allows us to book and travel the way we've been trained to.
I'll still be flying on Delta but I'm so glad I backed myself up with 1K.
Dec 13, 2002 | 8:20 am
#160
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SEA - DL DM/3MM, *A Gold, SPG Lifetime Plat, some other car and hotel stuff
Posts: 5,648
Characteristically, UDH makes a fine post. I think we are beginning to realize that, as with the "old" base mile system, the new MQM system will have loopholes and work-arounds (see scribbler's FCO trip in "I" class).
Overall, though, DL is trying to align the rewarding of customers with the goal of the airline, which is to make a profit.
I have said this before, but I will repeat now since it's more relevant than ever. The goal of the airline is to maximize profit. The following metrics are not the ultimate goal of the airline:
-maximizing revenue
-maximizing passenger miles flown
-maximizing passenger segments flown
-etc.
Now, I do acknowledge that achieving this second set of goals (revenue, pax miles flown, etc) is highly correlated to maximing profit. In most cases, they are ways to achieve maximum profitability. However, there are so many work-arounds with the last few metrics (miles flown, segments flown) that pax are able to take advantage and earn rewards from the airline that are really meant to be offered to those maximizing profit.
By moving to a recognition of revenue, the airline comes closer to achieving its goal of rewarding profitable customers. In this case, DL took an intermediate step of recognizing people via a hybrid of revenue and miles.
I can't really fault DL for this decision. There are GMs, and some PMs, out there, who are NOT very profitable customers for the airline. At the same time, I do acknowledge the spiff point, which indicates that high fare travellers occasionally want to travel low-fare, and so the airline is often discriminating against the wrong person. (For a greater examination of this topic, do a search for "Leisure andymo" or "Business andymo.")
So above, I argue that DL is not business-foolish to enact qualifying changes. And to agree with a poster above, those McK analysts are indeed smart people, as much as we choose to disrespect them on this board. To be fair, I should acknowledge that my agreement here is self-serving, as I qualify PM regardless.
Now, to move on to what I consider DL's folly in its two-part changes: the reduction of benefits. (I think that with all of the pages of announcements, DL's new plans at base incorporates two pieces: How one qualifies for status, and what one receives upon doing so.)
Hmm, how to be eloquent about the reduction of benefits piece...
I think it sucks sweaty donkey d!ck and DL loses me come 1/1/04 (should really be 3/1/04 but they magically chopped two months off the status earned via 2002 activity).
I didn't break the T&C there, did I?
Oh, as for the comment above regarding value of CRC, as Bruce notes, it is easily quantifiable... at most, it is the GM price of paid CRC membership - $275.
[This message has been edited by andymo99 (edited 12-13-2002).]
Overall, though, DL is trying to align the rewarding of customers with the goal of the airline, which is to make a profit.
I have said this before, but I will repeat now since it's more relevant than ever. The goal of the airline is to maximize profit. The following metrics are not the ultimate goal of the airline:
-maximizing revenue
-maximizing passenger miles flown
-maximizing passenger segments flown
-etc.
Now, I do acknowledge that achieving this second set of goals (revenue, pax miles flown, etc) is highly correlated to maximing profit. In most cases, they are ways to achieve maximum profitability. However, there are so many work-arounds with the last few metrics (miles flown, segments flown) that pax are able to take advantage and earn rewards from the airline that are really meant to be offered to those maximizing profit.
By moving to a recognition of revenue, the airline comes closer to achieving its goal of rewarding profitable customers. In this case, DL took an intermediate step of recognizing people via a hybrid of revenue and miles.
I can't really fault DL for this decision. There are GMs, and some PMs, out there, who are NOT very profitable customers for the airline. At the same time, I do acknowledge the spiff point, which indicates that high fare travellers occasionally want to travel low-fare, and so the airline is often discriminating against the wrong person. (For a greater examination of this topic, do a search for "Leisure andymo" or "Business andymo.")
So above, I argue that DL is not business-foolish to enact qualifying changes. And to agree with a poster above, those McK analysts are indeed smart people, as much as we choose to disrespect them on this board. To be fair, I should acknowledge that my agreement here is self-serving, as I qualify PM regardless.
Now, to move on to what I consider DL's folly in its two-part changes: the reduction of benefits. (I think that with all of the pages of announcements, DL's new plans at base incorporates two pieces: How one qualifies for status, and what one receives upon doing so.)
Hmm, how to be eloquent about the reduction of benefits piece...
I think it sucks sweaty donkey d!ck and DL loses me come 1/1/04 (should really be 3/1/04 but they magically chopped two months off the status earned via 2002 activity).
I didn't break the T&C there, did I?
Oh, as for the comment above regarding value of CRC, as Bruce notes, it is easily quantifiable... at most, it is the GM price of paid CRC membership - $275.
[This message has been edited by andymo99 (edited 12-13-2002).]
Dec 13, 2002 | 9:22 am
#161
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 58,133
I don't know... Delta has proven time and again that it is not good about backing down or trying to gracefully "save face". I don't think AA/UA/NW are going to match this policy so we shall see...
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CoMooter:
For what it is worth, me thinks DL's 'throw-away' in this deal is insULT .5. Unless there is a major shift out of the rest of the majors DL will come back in the next week or two and say all DL flights will give you at least one medallion mile "because of the concerns you expressed to us".</font>
For what it is worth, me thinks DL's 'throw-away' in this deal is insULT .5. Unless there is a major shift out of the rest of the majors DL will come back in the next week or two and say all DL flights will give you at least one medallion mile "because of the concerns you expressed to us".</font>
Dec 13, 2002 | 9:35 am
#162
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Smoke filled room, TPA and FLL/MIA :UAL 1K and 2MM,AA EX PLAT and 2MM,Lifetime Plat Starwood
Posts: 4,318
I give you a dispensation from the T&C... THIS REALLY STINKS>
UnofficialDLHelper, Nice not really aplicable senerio for most PM. Try this one, and tell me how I get in FC 100% of the time like I have been on DL and CO,NW.
Flyer Cigarman
Flies 153 Delta segments
Spends OVER $40,000
ALWAYS buys K and above (to get the upgrade at booking)
Flown 143,000 delta miles
Average flight length is about 800 miles
Now tell me what percentage of flights I can upgrade with via the coupons I'll earn...
Bet it turns out to be about 20%...
So I can lose the upgrade ,at purchase, on K fares plus increse my ticket prices a ton, by having to buy reems of upgrades, that of course I will now play the lottery on upgrades. If I want the lottery... I can upgrade 5 days out on CO/NW(better than Delta) off ANY fare class... EXPLAIN how Delta makes any sense. Oh, and your stupid crown room. Big freekin whoop. They are so crowded the main terminal is often better. I get free alchol at CO/NW and FOOD. Something Delta has never heard of. Bagels,cream cheese, fruit,cheese,chips,doughnuts, etc. I would never pay for thr stupid Crown Room. Waiting for your answer Delta guy.
[This message has been edited by cigarman (edited 12-13-2002).]
UnofficialDLHelper, Nice not really aplicable senerio for most PM. Try this one, and tell me how I get in FC 100% of the time like I have been on DL and CO,NW.
Flyer Cigarman
Flies 153 Delta segments
Spends OVER $40,000
ALWAYS buys K and above (to get the upgrade at booking)
Flown 143,000 delta miles
Average flight length is about 800 miles
Now tell me what percentage of flights I can upgrade with via the coupons I'll earn...
Bet it turns out to be about 20%...
So I can lose the upgrade ,at purchase, on K fares plus increse my ticket prices a ton, by having to buy reems of upgrades, that of course I will now play the lottery on upgrades. If I want the lottery... I can upgrade 5 days out on CO/NW(better than Delta) off ANY fare class... EXPLAIN how Delta makes any sense. Oh, and your stupid crown room. Big freekin whoop. They are so crowded the main terminal is often better. I get free alchol at CO/NW and FOOD. Something Delta has never heard of. Bagels,cream cheese, fruit,cheese,chips,doughnuts, etc. I would never pay for thr stupid Crown Room. Waiting for your answer Delta guy.
[This message has been edited by cigarman (edited 12-13-2002).]
Dec 13, 2002 | 9:55 am
#163
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: He who dies with the most miles wins!!
Programs: WorldPerks Demoted again to SE, DL 3.1MM Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 11,678
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by UnofficialDLHelper:
I know it gets said over and over, but DL is the only U.S. carrier that offers free lounge access along w/ free alcoholic beverages for *PM*s.....that adds up...my guess is at least $75M/yr
Anyway...just my "unofficial" $0.02.
</font>
I know it gets said over and over, but DL is the only U.S. carrier that offers free lounge access along w/ free alcoholic beverages for *PM*s.....that adds up...my guess is at least $75M/yr
Anyway...just my "unofficial" $0.02.
</font>
Please explain to me in simple terms why it is to my advantage (in your own example) to spend 3,000.00+ of my company's money for a CRC Membership that costs way less than a thousand dollars?
This sounds to me like a Casino "Comp". Whereby the free dinner cost me 2,000.00
[This message has been edited by mikey1003 (edited 12-13-2002).]
Dec 13, 2002 | 9:57 am
#164
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Here, there, and everywhere. Hip, hip, so hip to be square.
Posts: 1,122
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cigarman:
UnofficialDLHelper, Nice not really aplicable senerio for most PM. Try this one, and tell me how I get in FC 100% of the time like I have been on DL and CO,NW.
</font>
UnofficialDLHelper, Nice not really aplicable senerio for most PM. Try this one, and tell me how I get in FC 100% of the time like I have been on DL and CO,NW.
</font>
Do you really think CO and NW would be so eager to have Delta join their alliance otherwise?
It is very possible for a Platinum to spend $10,000 or less on 90 CO or NW segments (to re-qualify for Plat) and ride on almost every one of them in the F cabin. That corresponds to an average $444 ticket price for a first-class RT. Nice, but simply not sustainable.
You might as well get that wallet warmed up, cigarman, 'cause the death knell is sounding on the days of buying 100% discounted coach and flying 100% F.
Mook
[This message has been edited by Mook (edited 12-13-2002).]
Dec 13, 2002 | 10:12 am
#165
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 47,244
I believe Mook is wrong...DL's move gives NW/CO a huge competitive advantage to win over unhappy former DL FFers, by offering them exactly what they want with fair elite earning options and upgrades. UA, with the advantages of being in bankrupcy court to cut costs, can loosen their program to the same effect (cutting the $100 fee might be their first cannon shot, as they try to win market share back).
Many opinions ("in the know" as well), have it that the CO/NW/DL alliance will not be approved (nor should it), and it will leave things nicely as the competitive free-for-all that we have now, as it should be.
If NW/CO redo their programs like DL, the effect of that, combined with extreme difficulty in redeeming award travel, would nullify any value those programs have at all, and would result in a mass migration to AA (and possibly UA).
Many opinions ("in the know" as well), have it that the CO/NW/DL alliance will not be approved (nor should it), and it will leave things nicely as the competitive free-for-all that we have now, as it should be.
If NW/CO redo their programs like DL, the effect of that, combined with extreme difficulty in redeeming award travel, would nullify any value those programs have at all, and would result in a mass migration to AA (and possibly UA).
