Throw-Away Ticketing, Hidden City Ticketing, and Skipping Legs: The Definitive Thread
Jun 2, 2003, 9:34 pm
#31
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This particular issue became the focus of the ICC when railroads were regulated in the 1890s. How intermediate points could be charged higher fares was a major issue in the railroad regulation debates of one hundred years ago.
It is a complicated problem which relates to how an intermediate point is charged compared to an end point.
Who did you elect to Congress? There is one party who will screw you, but you have to figure out which one....
(No points if you figure out "R" is involved).
It is a complicated problem which relates to how an intermediate point is charged compared to an end point.
Who did you elect to Congress? There is one party who will screw you, but you have to figure out which one....
(No points if you figure out "R" is involved).
Jun 3, 2003, 9:13 am
#34
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The people bringing the lawsuit should be careful what they wish for. I am familiar with a hidden city ticketing opportunity on a route that Southwest offers a direct flight and Delta has a connection through Atlanta. I doubt that Delta sold many tickets from Point A to Point C with a connection through Atlanta, since most flyers would rather take the direct flight. Those utilizing this hidden city ticketing opportunity never got questioned by the Revenue Protection Unit and I doubt that many hidden city ticketers ever do. The travellers either took another carrier back from Atlanta to Point A or booked the return as a Delta flight with a Saturday night stay and never took the second leg.
The point I am trying to make is that airlines will eliminate hidden-city ticketing opportuntities if courts uphold the legality of such ticketing. Those who benefit from the process now are individuals who understand the system well enough to do it and who do not get caught. The airlines "losses" from those passengers are offset by the "profits" from passengers abiding by the rules. Once hidden city ticketing opportuntities are eliminated by the airlines because travel agents will be able to offer the benefits to the general public, the former hidden-city ticketing traveller will be the one who suffers.
Didn't the people filing these lawsuits ever take an economics course in college?
Jun 3, 2003, 9:30 am
#35
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RunawayNFly:
It is not a ridiculous law suit. Why does it cost hundreds of dollars more to fly from Point A VIA Point B and ending up in point C (if you stop over more than four hours)? It is the same air miles, the plane is stopping at Point B anyway, and you are not even dropping the last city(ie Point C). If you fly from NYC to FLL via ATL and jsut are passing through, it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than doing the same routing but stopping in ATL for a day. It truly is a rip off.
WIth a Hidden City, it does not cost the airline any more money because you have already paid for the last segment. If the flight is overbooked, they can use your seat and you actually have helped out the airlines. </font>
It is not a ridiculous law suit. Why does it cost hundreds of dollars more to fly from Point A VIA Point B and ending up in point C (if you stop over more than four hours)? It is the same air miles, the plane is stopping at Point B anyway, and you are not even dropping the last city(ie Point C). If you fly from NYC to FLL via ATL and jsut are passing through, it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than doing the same routing but stopping in ATL for a day. It truly is a rip off.
WIth a Hidden City, it does not cost the airline any more money because you have already paid for the last segment. If the flight is overbooked, they can use your seat and you actually have helped out the airlines. </font>
Forget about cost. The air fare you pay is always much more than the marginal cost of transporting an additional passenger (a little more fuel and a little more ground-based labor). Most of the airline's costs are fixed, so the ticket prices are set to maximize revenue without regard to cost.
Jun 4, 2003, 1:01 pm
#36
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by vasantn:
Irrational pricing generally exists only when there is collusion, otherwise market forces would rationalize it.
</font>
Irrational pricing generally exists only when there is collusion, otherwise market forces would rationalize it.
</font>
Very good point! My question, that I'm trying to figure out is: are the airline pricing structures really irrational?
Aren't airline fares merely value-based, rather than cost based?
As you know without me telling you, there's nothing illegal about value-based pricing.
So what makes it irrational?
I look forward to your economics insights.
Jun 6, 2003, 4:27 pm
#37
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Throw Away Ticket Hidden City Checking Bags
I am booked on a routing (as an example ATL - DAY connecting through CVG). This purpose of this routing was to get to Cincy cheaper by just getting off of the plane at CVG. If I am checking bags, is there anyway to get my bags checked only as far as CVG so they don't end up in DAY without me? How hostile is delta to this?
Jun 6, 2003, 4:37 pm
#38
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You have a couple of problems on this one. If you are starting in ATL and you get off in CVG and do not continue to DAY, then your return flight from DAY-CVG and CVG-ATL will be cancelled. It can work when the last flight of the iten is the one skipped but even then the checked bags will be checked to the final destination.
Jun 6, 2003, 7:53 pm
#39
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Presumably this is booked as a one-way flight. In that case, of course the routing works. (My current favorite is BOS-DFW $900 one way - BOS-DFW-MSY $200 one way or $365 one way in F on both AA and DL, throwing away DFW-MSY) But to answer the question - you just can't check bags when you are doing a hidden city routing.
Jun 6, 2003, 8:12 pm
#40
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I am not sure what Delta's policy is, but you might want to ask about short checking the luggage to CVG. Perhaps book yourself on a long connection (but still less than four hours) and then say something about wanting to change in CVG.
It might work... I've only done it on AC...
It might work... I've only done it on AC...
Jun 6, 2003, 9:17 pm
#41
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If you try to short check your bag, all kinds of alarms will go off. First, you are now tipping DL that you are planing to rip them off. Then the TSA might decide something is fishy.
And, as others will tell you, do not make a habit of doing this. It is technically illegal, but they of course would have to prove you got off, etc.
And, as others will tell you, do not make a habit of doing this. It is technically illegal, but they of course would have to prove you got off, etc.
Jun 8, 2003, 8:14 am
#42
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Depending on the cost savings on your ticket, it might make sense to just UPS ground-ship the bag a few days ahead of time to your destination? You also have the added benefit of not dealing with your luggage at the airports 
Jun 8, 2003, 12:44 pm
#43
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Hidden City Ticketing: Delta looks the other way
There are certain situations where Delta seems to ignore those who do the 'ole hidden city trick:
I know of a MAJOR Cincinnati-based corporation that does extensive hidden city ticketing for CVG-based employees via Louisville. So much so, this company has a negotiated rate with Hertz for a one-way drop from CVG to SDF.
The CVG-based traveler going to, say SFO, will buy a RT SDF-SFO via CVG both ways. The traveler parks his personal car at CVG, picks up a Hertz rental at CVG, does a one-way drop at SDF, then flys 3 of the 4 ticketed segments: SDF-CVG, CVG-SFO, then SFO-CVG. Upon arriving back at CVG, passenger picks up his own car and drives off. The company is doing this, of course, to take advantage of the lower fares offered in SDF, a WN city.
This company does this for hundreds of tickets each year. Delta has to know what is going on and does nothing to stop it. They have done this for at least three years, probably longer.
(Edited to change references to SDF.)
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"On Va. Ave., loyalty is a one-way street."
--Me
[This message has been edited by OldRoyal (edited 06-08-2003).]
I know of a MAJOR Cincinnati-based corporation that does extensive hidden city ticketing for CVG-based employees via Louisville. So much so, this company has a negotiated rate with Hertz for a one-way drop from CVG to SDF.
The CVG-based traveler going to, say SFO, will buy a RT SDF-SFO via CVG both ways. The traveler parks his personal car at CVG, picks up a Hertz rental at CVG, does a one-way drop at SDF, then flys 3 of the 4 ticketed segments: SDF-CVG, CVG-SFO, then SFO-CVG. Upon arriving back at CVG, passenger picks up his own car and drives off. The company is doing this, of course, to take advantage of the lower fares offered in SDF, a WN city.
This company does this for hundreds of tickets each year. Delta has to know what is going on and does nothing to stop it. They have done this for at least three years, probably longer.
(Edited to change references to SDF.)
------------------
"On Va. Ave., loyalty is a one-way street."
--Me
[This message has been edited by OldRoyal (edited 06-08-2003).]
Jun 8, 2003, 12:58 pm
#44
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Southwest doesn't fly to LEX. Did you mean SDF?
For all the trouble of parking at CVG, renting a car, and returning it at SDF, why not just drive your own car to SDF and fly all four flights? You would save money on the rental car and get an extra 500 miles (only 250 MQM's but more than 0).
Does Delta give this corporation a corporate discount?
For all the trouble of parking at CVG, renting a car, and returning it at SDF, why not just drive your own car to SDF and fly all four flights? You would save money on the rental car and get an extra 500 miles (only 250 MQM's but more than 0).
Does Delta give this corporation a corporate discount?
Jun 8, 2003, 1:02 pm
#45
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Make CVG your fourth connection that day. The bag tags only have four segments, so if you have more than four, you will have to pick up your bags at the fourth stop and re-check them.
On the other hand, it would take a lot less time and cost less money to fly ATL-CVG-DAY and just drive from Dayton than it would to buy ATL-MSY-DFW-SDF-CVG-DAY and drop the last segment.
On the other hand, it would take a lot less time and cost less money to fly ATL-CVG-DAY and just drive from Dayton than it would to buy ATL-MSY-DFW-SDF-CVG-DAY and drop the last segment.