MikeMpls

More likely passed out in the wings

Boston_Bulldog

more layers of 'security' coming our way . . .

"Travelers to Europe May Face Fingerprinting

By Ellen Nakashima and John Ward Anderson
Washington Post Staff Writers

Tuesday, February 12, 2008; Page A01

The European Commission will propose tomorrow that all foreign travelers entering and leaving Europe, including U.S. citizens, should be fingerprinted. If approved by the European Parliament, the measure would mean that precisely identifying information on tens of millions of citizens will be added in coming years to databases that could be shared by friendly governments around the world.

The United States already requires that foreigners be fingerprinted and photographed before they enter the country. So does Japan. Now top European security officials want to follow suit, with travelers being fingerprinted and some also having their facial images stored in a Europe-wide database, according to a copy of the proposal obtained by The Washington Post.

The plan is part of a vast and growing trend on both sides of the Atlantic to collect and share data electronically to identify and track people in the name of national security and immigration control. U.S. government computers now have access to data on financial transactions; air travel details such as name, itinerary and credit card numbers; and the names of those sending and receiving express-mail packages -- even a description of the contents.

"It's the only way to be really sure about identifying people," said a European Commission official familiar with the new fingerprinting plan. "With biometric data, it's much easier to track people and know who has come in and who has gone out, including possible terrorists," said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak publicly.

The timing and logistics of the plan remain uncertain, but it would probably not start for at least a year. Travelers' fingerprints would probably be taken upon arrival and then checked against a database, the official said. That, initially at least, would mean airports where fingerprints would be scanned electronically, the European official said.

"It seems like a steamroller," said Sophie in 't Veld, a Dutch member of parliament who follows privacy and security issues. "There is a new trend in particular in the U.S., the E.U. and Australia to register every single detail of our life. We're tagged. They can follow everything we do. They know where we are. The whole question is: What for? Does this actually make the world a safer place?"

The Bush administration says it does.

"Not only do we support these measures, we applaud them," said Russ Knocke, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security. "Measures like fingerprint and passenger-data collection can disrupt the ability of terrorists to move easily across international borders. They also serve to protect American citizens traveling overseas."

DHS already has a database of 85 million sets of fingerprints collected, for instance, from U.S. and foreign travelers stopped at the border for criminal violations, or for U.S. citizens adopting a child overseas. The FBI is building a huge biometric database for criminal justice purposes. All are supposed to be built to the same standards so data queries can be easily exchanged.

The "common ambition across the Atlantic," the European official said, is to achieve "as much interoperability as possible," through common technical standards for fingerprints and facial images. He said strict European data-protection laws would have to be respected before any sharing took place.

The proposal is part of a broader package of measures to strengthen the European entry and exit system so officials can know exactly who is in their country. The United States has a similar entry program and has piloted an exit program, but does not yet automatically track those leaving the country. The measures are also aimed at easing border crossings for law-abiding travelers.

The new European proposals nearly match initiatives undertaken in the United States to screen out terrorists, people who overstay their visas and others.

For several years, the United States has required that airlines that fly into the country transmit detailed passenger data before the flight's arrival. In November, the European Commission, the E.U.'s executive arm, issued the same proposal. The United States is working on an electronic travel authorization system, requiring travelers from countries where visas are not required to visit here to submit identification and travel details before departure. Now the commission is proposing something similar.

Armed guards in plainclothes already sit on flights to and from Europe and within Europe, but the United States wants to be able to put air marshals on many more flights from Europe, DHS spokesman Knocke said. The Bush administration is negotiating this with individual European states.
European privacy advocate Simon Davies said European officials are "blindly following" the United States "without the slightest commitment to openness or accountability."

The problem with border fingerprint systems is that their success rate diminishes as they grow, said Davies, director of the London-based Privacy International. "Adding a hundred million fingerprints of dubious quality on top of an inaccurate database will exponentially increase the failure rate," he said.

About 13 million U.S. citizens fly from the United States to Europe each year, according to the International Air Transport Association. David Stempler, president of the Potomac-based Air Travelers Association, said he has no problem with the proposal, given that the United States requires something similar. "So what's good for the goose is good for the gander," he said.

But Susan Gurley, executive director of the Association of Corporate Travel Executives, which represents 2,500 business executives in the United States and abroad, said that such a database poses the risk of abuse. "Unauthorized access to info of this nature could reveal executive travel patterns," she said. "It's another way to know what you're doing and where you are going."

Anderson reported from Paris. Staff writer Spencer S. Hsu contributed to this report. "


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iCorpRoadie

I was, but was asleep as I had to be up at 5am this morning! oh well congrats MikeMpls

iCorpRoadie

But I will still put my 10,000 post here, in doing so, I would like to thank all the 'little' peopel that have made this happen, my parents, Delta, AT&T Wireless, Verizon Wireless, Comcast, and.....and...<sniffel> all of you!

Thank you, thank you, thanks you!

hey, stop dragging me off stage, I have seen longer posts on here than this one! Give me a moment longer, hey, stop that music and why are there commercials running!!!!!

OUTRAGE!! all i have to say is OUTRAGE!!!

Who is in charge in here?

scoow

Sorry you missed it. But now you have a really tough decision to make. Where will you post #10k???

I apparently am typing slowly this morning... must be the cold has frozen my fingers.

Congrats on "Evangelist", iCR!!!

iCorpRoadie

Thanks! so is it that cold up there? Going to MSP Sunday for work, not sure WHY I said yes in Feb!

scoow

Not really that cold here. Not like MSP or anything.
I think yesterday's high was about 20 (yes, MikeMpls... that's a positive 20) but today should warm up to 27. And, we have a nice layer of ice to make everything look pretty.

gsw

Congratulations iCR. Will you still talk to us little people, now that you have entered the realm of sublime light?

iCorpRoadie

you guys in here are part of the "all of you" outside the lounge are where all the 'little' people are at But I can think of a few in here that should be part of the 'little people'

Gargoyle

What is a Puegot? What Sound does a Puegot make? Is it anything like the three Peugot 403's that we had in the early 60's, with the crank so when it was -5 degrees F and the battery died I could get out and crank while my father turned the key? That really got some looks from the neighbors. It was also the first car in the neighborhood with a sunroof, most people had never heard of such a thing. Beautiful car, but two things wrong with it- the design of the turn signals (we'd buy a box of a half dozen at a time, to replace them as fast as they broke) and the rough metal under the trunk handle, which would cut your finger if you weren't careful.

Well, you tried to steal iCR's thunder, but he still reached legendary status. And, interestingly enough, his status change posted instantly. I thought they'd wait to flush all the upgrades through the system when they reboot their computers on Saturday, just like DL does. Anyway, Congrats iCR!

A. No
B. We all know how much credibility that administration has when they tell us they have to do something to "make the world a safer place".

iCorpRoadie

Thank you! was wondering when I hit enter on that post when it would show the upgrade, its like being Plat for life

JHattery

A Conservative cowboy from Texas goes to a social function where Hillary Clinton just happened to be trying to gather more support for her nomination. Once she discovers the cowboy is a Republican, she starts to belittle him by talking in a southern drawl and single syllable words.

As she was doing that, she kept swatting at some flies that were buzzing around her head. The cowboy says, "Y'all havin' some problem with them circle flies?"

She stopped talking and said, "Well yes, if that's what they're called. But I've never heard of circle flies. "

"Well ma'am, " the cowboy replies, "circle flies hang around ranches. They're called circle flies because they're almost always found circling around the back end of a horse. "

"Oh, " Hillary replies as she goes back to rambling. But, a moment later, she stops and bluntly asks, "Are you calling me a horse's a$$? "

"No, ma'am, " the cowboy replies, "I have too much respect for the citizens of New York to call their Senator a horse's a$$. "

"That's a good thing, " she responds and begins rambling on once more.

After a long pause, the cowboy, in his best Texas drawl says, . "Hard to fool them flies though!"

Geogirl1234

Wasn't this joke posted by someone else (maybe Mikey?) a few weeks ago?

#29423 1-24-08

MikeMpls

What goes around, comes around. We can fight it best by stopping the stupidty here.

skchin

Oasis lounge is located in terminal 4, accross the hall from the religious rooms.
All Skyteam members can use this. They have food all day long, unlike the DL BE lounge. Menu consisting of finger sandwiches, several different soups, and salad choice.