readywhenyouare

I gave the source of my opinion as the CEO of Southwest. He doesn't share your optimism. Delta is not invincible.

steveholt

Airline CEO skeptical of competitor airline's chances?! Imagine judging EK or EY by what Akbar Al Baker thinks of them.

ethernal

Well, in fairness, WN's CEO was talking about WN, not its competitors. But context is important.. first and foremost, this is the same CEO engaged in difficult labor negotiations. Posturing about how bad things are (which, in fairness, things ARE terrible in the industry) is part of that negotiation because WN is trying to win concessions from the unions. In addition, this is a new position for WN: they've never really lost money before. Compare that to Delta (and the other legacies for that matter) where significant chunks of senior leaders were around in the dark days of bankruptcy era.

Either way, it's a meaningless statement. It has no meaning to the SEC - "the ship is taking on water" is not a forward looking financial statement. It's at best a reiteration of the obvious: Southwest (and all airlines outside of China where the pandemic is under control) are losing money right now. But Southwest especially (beyond even Delta) is best positioned to survive this, both because they are less reliant than Delta and the legacies on business travel and their (at least formerly) impenetrable balance sheet. The ship may be taking on water, but Southwest has a lot of watertight compartments to keep the ship from sinking. Given the extremely positive vaccine news, Southwest can probably go back to trying to solve their more long-term structural business issue: how to compete in the middle with ULCCs competing from below and the legacies competing with them from above.

To loop back to the topic, all else considered, I just don't see Delta picking up white tails (or any MAXes right now). Delta is just too dependent on business travel to be bullish about future capacity needs. While the leisure market will likely recover strongly (if not overshoot.. remote work means more opportunities to work wherever), the big question on every non-ULCC's mind is where business travel is going to land. And until there is more clarity post-vaccine, I don't see an airline like Delta making that move. I could easily see an ULCC with a stronger balance sheet doing it, because I think the demand return for that segment has a clearer and more predictable trajectory.

N590UA

Long time lurker and first time poster. I'm a bit surprised of all the trash talking of the Delta 739ER. While I understand in terms of performance it's a P.O.S. in general, I think DL has done the best they can with them for the most part. They all have mood lighting, giant overhead bins, and AVOD and that's enough for me to deal with it. Have any of you been on United's 739ERs? They are pretty worn down compared to Delta's for the most part and if they don't have DirecTV installed (now free but still dated) there are no video screens installed at all.

Deplaning on them also takes forever, but as does the new high density configuration of Delta's 757 as well. One time I clocked boarding in coach from the gate area to my seat and it was close to 20 minutes on LAX-ATL on the new 757 configuration. The jetways just get slammed with people trying to board especially with the new giant overhead bins.

Anyway, back to topic I don't think it's likely DL would want the MAX considering it's reputation and all the outstanding Airbus orders at the moment. But I don't think Delta is necessarily anti Boeing as they have invested heavily in upgrading the 757 and not grounding them at all during COVID-19 like AA and UA basically have.

ethernal

United's 737-900s were a dream but unfortunately they are slowly refreshing them to a much denser config. The original configurations were 147 seaters and had a very, very large economy plus section (51 seats). Unfortunately their updated version is 179 seats, but they still have significantly larger Economy Plus section (27 vs. 21 on Delta, and 4 of the 14 aisle/window seats in C+ are bad in the Delta config meaning there are only 10 "desirable" C+ seats).

Long story short, the Delta 739 is bad for two reasons. One is that the airflow is terrible. The gaspers don't gasp - they whisper. Every flight I take on a 739 is an uncomfortably hot one. Number two, there are few good seats. The only good economy seats on the plane are 10A, 10C, 19A, 19C, 19D, 19F, 21A, and 21F. 21C and 21D are okay, but not great. The 757 has more "good seats", as does United's configs.

This is all aggravated by the narrower seats on a 737 (vs. an A320), but it doesn't seem to be the driver of disdain since 757s have the same undersized seats as the 739 and most people here like the 757s.

allseas1586

Agree completely. If they reconfigured with more C+ and worked on the airflow (other carriers can get it right) then the 739 wouldn’t be so bad.

readywhenyouare

I'm not sure why you would call the 739's performance a POS. It certainly outperforms the A321 in range and economics. Notice that after the 757 the 739 operates Delta's longest narrowbody flights. You won't find the A321 on flights like MCO-SEA, JFK-LAS, etc. Alaska has the A321neo (but not much longer) and still uses the 739 on their longest flights. So can we please stop the nonsense of saying the 739's performance is awful?

N590UA

To me it's pretty obvious where Delta wins over United here: Personal on-demand video at the seat back in F and Y. United is inconsistent in this regard, and streaming still seems unreliable compared to in-seat screens. I can't give UA credit for being cheap whereas DL wants to provide a meaningful perk here and give PAX the benefit of the doubt against streaming content.

UA has only a handful of 757-200s operating right now so that point is moot. At least Delta properly invested in them and is keeping them around for a while whereas UA (and AA) were ready to offload them first during COVID-19.

Why is the airflow on the 739ER so bad with DL? How is it any different than UA's variants? As far as the DL A320 goes, those were in dire straights from NW before DL upgraded them in the last few years. The new lavs, AVOD, personal controls are better than anything on an AA 321 (ex-US) or UA 320.

Does it really outperform the 321 or is that your opinion? The 739ER is a pig on takeoff compared to the 757. Much like the MAX, that frame has been stretched way too far over a long period of time.

readywhenyouare

Why would anyone other than the pilots and dispatch care about the time to reach rotation speed or the Vref speed? If the A321 saved Delta a penny more on long stage lengths then they would certainly use it. The fact of the matter is that the 739 is used on longer flights than the A321 at Delta. Are you telling me fleet planning just flips a coin on fleet assignments?

Maybe you should start your own consulting firm. Then you can get the word out that the 737 isn't capable and no airline should have them in their fleet. Maybe get yourself a good defamation attorney on retainer though.

Yellowjj

The 739 sits quite a few feet lower to the ground than the 757, hence the shallower takeoffs. A pig on takeoff are aircraft that struggle to get off the ground due to lack of power (cue some of the older western/russian planes); the 739 is constricted by height not power, thus not making it a pig.

The 739 and 321 are practically equal all things considered. It is true, a lot of airlines tend to favor the 9 on long routes and that might be a combination of lower weight and fuel burn.

N590UA

My main point was there were a lot of people complaining about the 739ER and I think it was a bit much considering how s*itty the other alternative is from a passenger perspective at UA. Please stop nitpicking my words.

ethernal

Fair enough for those who care about that. I've never once used the video screens on the 739 (despite having flown at least 300-400 legs on it) other than to do the flight map which is a nice to have but hardly important. I realize that those screens do matter to a lot of folks (Delta indicates it's one thing people consistently are willing to pay a premium for over a competitor), so not discrediting that, but for me it makes no difference. I'd take physical comfort any day of the week over a media consumption device. I am also 6' 4" so that may bias my preferences.

Newman55

I think there is just a small, but very vocal, group of people who hate the 737. Like many complaints, they aren't really based in logic just selective personal preference.

cmd320

The hate for Delta's 739s comes from both the fact that far better alternative aircraft are available and how terribly configured they are. F pitch is miserable and compared to a 757 or A321 the cabin just feels small and cramped. Oh, and of course they have baby's first potty in place of an actual human-sized lav. As you mention, they also take forever to board and de-plane, though this isn't really solved with an A321 as these board through 1L also. The nice thing about the 757 is that it can board through 2L which alleviates the need for me to have a planeload of people walking past me in F. And then of course there's the miserable lack of air, the lack of a mid-cabin lav, and the noise which is probably the worst in its class. So yes, of the options available, I'd still choose flights on the 757, A321/20/19, A220, E-Jet, and 717 before dragging myself onto one of these miserable barges.

Of all of these issues, the only one the MAX may solve is the noise problem. Otherwise it's the same miserable cabin, door config, lav config, air system, and of course it wouldn't receive and nicer cabin configuration I'm sure. And of course now it comes with the added benefit of allowing the passenger time to reflect on whether or not it's going to stay in the air for the duration of the flight.

DenverBrian

While the 757's seats are the same width as a 737, there's a perception of more overall space per person in a 757. The cabin floor is lower, making the ceiling a bit higher, and the space at the window seat feels more generous. The sense that the 757 can get off the ground smartly helps too.