lowfareair

If we need to wear masks, we may as well look fabulous doing it.

Also, I hate wearing suits because they're uncomfortable. My current job requires me to wear them when visiting clients (well, pre-COVID anyway...). My hatred of them did not stop me from spending a good amount more for a couple MTM ones rather than just buying the cheapest thing I could find off-the-rack. I hate wearing them, but if I need to wear a suit, I want to look good when I do.

ab2013

Yup, in the pandemic of 1918/1919, even in the US. Even then there was resistance to wearing masks. Don't think the mask mandates were permanent - can't recall wearing a mask last year.

ethernal

There's a difference between wanting to wear a mask and a desire to look decent while wearing one. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more money in normalization and getting the economy back up and running than a trivial business in masks.

Really? You look at China and masks are what concern you? And mask usage isn't endemic in China. It's actually more common in Japan and Hong Kong (which, while part of China, is culturally more westernized and democratic). Even then, mask usage is relatively rare and most commonly only used by people who are sick to.. you know, help prevent infecting others. It's a sign of courtesy in a much more collectivist culture. I would actually hope that people take this opportunity to think about what it means to spread more common diseases and the impact it makes to others by doing things like more hand washing and - yes, while symptomatic and sick, wearing a mask or at a minimum being cognizant of coughing and the like.

This is going a bit off-topic so won't do any more back and forth with you on this but I just want to say your attitude is toxic. Most people would call me pretty libertarian as it relates to civil liberties. I'm on your side as it relates to being cognizant of government overreach and the erosion of individual rights. But a true libertarian understands that externalities exist, and that your actions can and do harm others. Infectious public health - when there is significant extranormal risk - is one domain where the common good outweighs the rights of the individual because of the exponential and uncontrolled spread that you create. Vaccines, sewer systems, and antibiotics are the three most significant inventions that enable us to live long, healthy lives. The first two rely on everyone contributing - and the third relies on responsible use of antibiotics to keep them effective. All three help keep diseases in check.

Wear a gosh darned mask for a few months. And don't complain about Delta trying to protect its passengers. You don't complain about being made to wear a seatbelt, being told not to smoke on a plane, or even wearing shoes (bare feet are a common disease vector - hookworm is endemic in countries without prevalent shoe use). Get over yourself. No one is trying to take your rights away, and no one is making some big conspiracy that centers around ruining your life. I just don't want my parents to die, or my uncle, or my friend with asthma, or my cousin who is immuno-compromised due to cancer treatments to die needlessly because wearing a mask is ever-so-slightly uncomfortable. Exponential growth means something can go from being something that impacts no one you know to everyone you know in a very short order of time.

ATOBTTR

On top of that, a true libertarian would respect a private company’s right to make a business decision. And if said person doesn’t like it, that person can give his or her business to another company that better serves his/her views or personal preferences.

readywhenyouare

When did I say Delta couldn't do this? They are free to make any changes they like. But that doesn't exempt them from criticism or legal action. I haven't needed any transcontinental travel so I've either been driving or flying myself.

cmd320

Wouldn’t use DL for transcon nowadays anyway. Their product is crAAp. I’d stick to B6 Mint for all transcon flying until some other airline gives me a reason to come back to them.

Enigma368

That's the whole point. Any of us could be carrying it without knowing. Masks protect others from those who are asymptomatic spreaders. Rapid COVID tests at the gate would negate the need for the mask if they were reliable and available. I do not believe any such reliable test exists.

Yes, because in the 2 days since the test, there is no way you could have contracted the virus. If you really are so against wearing a thin piece of cloth over your face to protect others during a pandemic, maybe not flying is your best option.

Enigma368

Whatever legal argument you are making is kinda ruined by your use of the word "useless".

The WHO, the CDC, the White House, virtually all politicians from both major parties in the US, most Governments in Western Democracies around the world and nearly all leading scientists and epidemiologists strongly recommend wearing masks. This is based on growing(though definitely not inconclusive) evidence that doing so can significantly reduce the spread of this virus and in turn, save lives.

Nobody, including you, knows with absolute certainty how effective masks are right now but "probably will save lives" is good enough for me, especially when the cost is at most, the mild discomfort of having to wear a thin piece of cloth over my face.

But you, like an unfortunate number of others, seem to think you know better than all the experts and I think this kind of attitude is disappointing.

readywhenyouare

Yes the government has never misled us... Say, where can I find some asbestos and agent orange? I'm fresh out of both.

BRITINJAPAN4

Correct. look I really dont understand all the misinformation about masks, its not difficult.

Masks dont give the wearer much protection, some but to massive.

main reason to wear is it SIGNIFICANTLY reduces chances of spreading, so totally its big impact.

What reason possible could you have for NOT wearing one !

Enigma368

So you think the Governments of most countries around the world, and the experts whose advice they are following, are trying to mislead us to wearing masks as some sort of sinister plan to do what exactly? This kind of conspiracy theory nonsense is just...

We, as a society, can only act upon the best understanding of science at the current time. Does that mean scientists, epidemiologists and the Governments who follow their advice will always be correct? Of course not, we will continue to evolve and learn. But to say "oh they sometimes get things wrong so I'm just going to ignore everything they say" is, frankly, ridiculous. We would never advance as a society with that attitude.

Ultimately, even if wearing masks does turn out, in hindsight, to have been less effective than is currently thought, what does it matter? Oh no, we had to wear a thin piece of cloth over our mouth on planes and in shops for a few months, based on strong evidence available at the time that it may save a considerable amount of lives. I think I could live with that.

The level of insanity in this world right now is beyond belief.

readywhenyouare

We can agree on the insanity. We were told it would only take two weeks of shutting everything down to stop the virus. That turned into two months and beyond. It ruined countless lives and businesses. All over a virus with a CDC estimated death rate of 0.65% (see link). I'm sorry if you think I'm being cold but this isn't worth it. We are prolonging the suffering at this point. Insurance companies and medical professionals have decided which lives are worth saving and which aren't for decades. Ever listened in on organ donation receiver decisions? We can't save every life and we have never tried to.

https://theconversation.com/how-dead...-closer-141426

Enigma368

.65% of the US population is over 2 million people. But of course many more would die than that because the hospitals would become overwhelmed well before that point and that .65% rate would shoot up much higher as there would not be the capacity in the healthcare system to treat more moderate cases. Also, 100s of thousands would die from non covid related causes such as car accidents, who might otherwise have survived, due to Hospitals and ICUs being completely over capacity. You are massively oversimplifying the problem. And even if it was a simple case of .65% dead we do not want 2 million un-necessary deaths, right? (yes, some of those deaths are unavoidable no matter what we do)

But to the point of this thread, we all want the economy open ASAP and one of the best ways to achieve that is to reduce the spread of this virus. And one of the best ways to do that, according to the current scientific consensus, is to wear a mask.

I would have a lot more respect for you if you were arguing "we should all wear a mask and open up the economy immediately". But I am guessing your argument is actually "we should open up immediately but don't dare ask me to wear a mask". Which means you don't really have an argument, you are just anti-science and anti-reason.

readywhenyouare

It's a shame we can't disagree without one party throwing insults. I'll leave you with this. Read The Cold Equations by Tom Godwin and Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut.

Enigma368

I said if you believe we should open up the economy immediately but are against wearing masks to do so, then this is anti science and anti reason. This is a fact, not an opinion or an insult. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe I am being unfair and you are more reasonable than I am giving you credit for.

Please tell me you are pro opening up ASAP and pro wearing masks so we can do so. I would genuinely have some respect for that viewpoint.

The sad fact is that many, many people who want the economy opened up ASAP are arguing vehemently against masks even though this is one of the best things we can do to open up the economy more quickly. That lack of logic is just depressing.