Customer-unfriendly decision: 120-minute delay for a full refund
#106
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BNA
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,027
I feel like people have really been brainwashed with airlines to accept this kind of crap. I guess it's just a matter of low expectations and willingness to take abuse. Imagine if you ordered a non-refundable cake for valentine's day a couple of months in advance and wanted it red with hearts. It wasn't on special (in fact you paid extra for the hearts), but you had the surety of having a cake ready for a day you know that cakes are hard to come by last minute at a reasonable price. But, oops, the baker decided that it was cheaper or easier for them to use yellow frosting and make flowers instead of hearts. The baker was nice of course and called you and said "hey, just as a heads up, the cake I'm going to send you isn't the cake you ordered... no, of course you can't cancel the order - it's non-refundable.. oh, well, it's okay because I called and told you so you can plan around it." I mean, it's still a cake, and the color and shape of the frosting is completely immaterial right? You still got a cake on the day you wanted it. So it's all good, right?
Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?
I have had more flights following the schedule I purchased (pre covid) than changing beyond 30 minutes anyway. Not only is this making a mountain out of a mole hill, it is classic it doesn't work for me so it must be evil corporations and anyone who doesn't fit in my exact case and doesn't care must be a sucker and/or stupid. Give it a rest.
#107
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 979
Oh please. Abuse? This situation hardly qualifies as abuse.
Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?
I have had more flights following the schedule I purchased (pre covid) than changing beyond 30 minutes anyway. Not only is this making a mountain out of a mole hill, it is classic it doesn't work for me so it must be evil corporations and anyone who doesn't fit in my exact case and doesn't care must be a sucker and/or stupid. Give it a rest.
Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?
I have had more flights following the schedule I purchased (pre covid) than changing beyond 30 minutes anyway. Not only is this making a mountain out of a mole hill, it is classic it doesn't work for me so it must be evil corporations and anyone who doesn't fit in my exact case and doesn't care must be a sucker and/or stupid. Give it a rest.
if airlines bear no responsibility for their own schedules, why pretend they are going to transport passengers at specific times? And why charge them premium for some alleged departures?
and further, if airlines have no responsibility for schedules, why is a passenger penalized with hefty fines if he or she wants to change?
#108
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BNA
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,027
so if airlines can absolve them from any responsibility for the schedule, why do they pretend to give passengers a choice when it comes to schedule? And why do they rip off passengers for some departures and not the others?
if airlines bear no responsibility for their own schedules, why pretend they are going to transport passengers at specific times? And why charge them premium for some alleged departures?
and further, if airlines have no responsibility for schedules, why is a passenger penalized with hefty fines if he or she wants to change?
if airlines bear no responsibility for their own schedules, why pretend they are going to transport passengers at specific times? And why charge them premium for some alleged departures?
and further, if airlines have no responsibility for schedules, why is a passenger penalized with hefty fines if he or she wants to change?
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,362
You’re welcome to book Southwest for your travel needs and Southwest works just fine for many travelers.. No change fees and no cancelation penalties on WN if your plans change.
#110
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,663
Oh please. Abuse? This situation hardly qualifies as abuse.
Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?
I have had more flights following the schedule I purchased (pre covid) than changing beyond 30 minutes anyway. Not only is this making a mountain out of a mole hill, it is classic it doesn't work for me so it must be evil corporations and anyone who doesn't fit in my exact case and doesn't care must be a sucker and/or stupid. Give it a rest.
Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?
I have had more flights following the schedule I purchased (pre covid) than changing beyond 30 minutes anyway. Not only is this making a mountain out of a mole hill, it is classic it doesn't work for me so it must be evil corporations and anyone who doesn't fit in my exact case and doesn't care must be a sucker and/or stupid. Give it a rest.
Anyhow, Covid-19 has changed everything and I’m giving the airlines a pass, just as I give Amazon a pass for on time delivery. I have important deliveries that have zero expectations they will arrive when scheduled. Client knows and fully understands.
#111
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
#112
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,663
My wife and kids flew via Delta between OGG-DEN, and couldn’t speak well enough about them. So I’m a UA guy generally, but I can’t find a reason to fault DL. The new policy is inline with UA as far as I know, but given that I’m not faulting them.
Last edited by COSPILOT; Aug 5, 2020 at 1:20 am
#113
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
I gave a solution that I thought was reasonable. If Delta wants to price different flights within a non-guaranteed time slot, they should clearly and proactively warn the customer that what they are buying is not guaranteed and the customer has no recourse should a change be made and that they will not get their $X back. These types of common-sense consumer warnings are common in industries regulated by groups with way less regulatory capture (like the FTC) rather than the FAA/DOT.
#114
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 979
Hah - the "stipulations and common understanding"? You mean in this case where the baker advertises publicly the red frosting and hearts for Valentine's Day and then absolves themselves of blame in not a 1 or 2 page contract but a 36 page (Delta's CoC) document that would take the average reader 55 minutes to read (much less actually understand)?
I gave a solution that I thought was reasonable. If Delta wants to price different flights within a non-guaranteed time slot, they should clearly and proactively warn the customer that what they are buying is not guaranteed and the customer has no recourse should a change be made and that they will not get their $X back. These types of common-sense consumer warnings are common in industries regulated by groups with way less regulatory capture (like the FTC) rather than the FAA/DOT.
I gave a solution that I thought was reasonable. If Delta wants to price different flights within a non-guaranteed time slot, they should clearly and proactively warn the customer that what they are buying is not guaranteed and the customer has no recourse should a change be made and that they will not get their $X back. These types of common-sense consumer warnings are common in industries regulated by groups with way less regulatory capture (like the FTC) rather than the FAA/DOT.
#115
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BNA
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,027
Hah - the "stipulations and common understanding"? You mean in this case where the baker advertises publicly the red frosting and hearts for Valentine's Day and then absolves themselves of blame in not a 1 or 2 page contract but a 36 page (Delta's CoC) document that would take the average reader 55 minutes to read (much less actually understand)?
I gave a solution that I thought was reasonable. If Delta wants to price different flights within a non-guaranteed time slot, they should clearly and proactively warn the customer that what they are buying is not guaranteed and the customer has no recourse should a change be made and that they will not get their $X back. These types of common-sense consumer warnings are common in industries regulated by groups with way less regulatory capture (like the FTC) rather than the FAA/DOT.
I gave a solution that I thought was reasonable. If Delta wants to price different flights within a non-guaranteed time slot, they should clearly and proactively warn the customer that what they are buying is not guaranteed and the customer has no recourse should a change be made and that they will not get their $X back. These types of common-sense consumer warnings are common in industries regulated by groups with way less regulatory capture (like the FTC) rather than the FAA/DOT.
With all the things that Delta does or doesn't do, adding 30 minutes to the timeline that determines when I get a refund instead of a credit isn't something I think I need to wring my hands about the evil corporations out to get us. Especially for a situation that doesn't often happen to me, or most people for that matter where is causes severe repercussions. Most times I am annoyed and just take a different flight, unlikely I would want a refund anyway.
I do find it interesting this is a hill you want to die on. This must happen to you a lot where you need the refund to buy a better timed flight on another airline and you can't because Delta stole your money. Don't get me wrong, I understand that would be infuriating. I just think overall it isn't that big of an issue for most.
#116
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
You need to stop hating the player and start hating the game. In other words if the root of your issue with this is the oligopolistic industry, then complain to (or about) your government representative and not Delta. Delta is going to do what Delta is going to do in the industry in which it exists.
With all the things that Delta does or doesn't do, adding 30 minutes to the timeline that determines when I get a refund instead of a credit isn't something I think I need to wring my hands about the evil corporations out to get us. Especially for a situation that doesn't often happen to me, or most people for that matter where is causes severe repercussions. Most times I am annoyed and just take a different flight, unlikely I would want a refund anyway.
I do find it interesting this is a hill you want to die on. This must happen to you a lot where you need the refund to buy a better timed flight on another airline and you can't because Delta stole your money. Don't get me wrong, I understand that would be infuriating. I just think overall it isn't that big of an issue for most.
I do find it interesting this is a hill you want to die on. This must happen to you a lot where you need the refund to buy a better timed flight on another airline and you can't because Delta stole your money. Don't get me wrong, I understand that would be infuriating. I just think overall it isn't that big of an issue for most.
#117
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BNA
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,027
We can hate all the players in the game, i.e., both the airline execs who engage in legalized corruption to essentially pay off the government to get away with what they do and the government officials who are on the other side of this legalized corruption. We can also realize that there's nothing we can do to change anything, and nobody running the airlines or the government cares a lick. Notwithstanding, we're all free to discuss/debate/complain/vent/b***h/argue about it on here.
All these sleazy consumer-unfriendly changes are incremental. The airlines chip away, one little thing at a time -- an extra fee here, a loyalty program devaluation there, an in-flight service cutback here, a unfavorable change to the delay policy there. Even if this isn't the biggest deal in the world, it's important to recognize the broader context.
#118
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,501
We're here arguing over airline policies which are actually pretty consumer friendly when we should be complaining about hotels. I booked a "refundable" room and when "cancelled" the same day at 3 AM was still charged for the night.
#119
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,362
#120
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT / 2MM
Posts: 2,113
If having cake somehow means keeping the cake and not eating it, cake is just a bad example to teach the proverb's lesson . What else is there to do with cake besides eat it? You can't invest it or save it.
So this dumb proverb essentially uses an example of cake that doesn't fit with the lesson it is trying to teach. Anyone else feel this way?