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Customer-unfriendly decision: 120-minute delay for a full refund

Customer-unfriendly decision: 120-minute delay for a full refund

Old Aug 4, 20, 10:13 pm
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
I feel like people have really been brainwashed with airlines to accept this kind of crap. I guess it's just a matter of low expectations and willingness to take abuse. Imagine if you ordered a non-refundable cake for valentine's day a couple of months in advance and wanted it red with hearts. It wasn't on special (in fact you paid extra for the hearts), but you had the surety of having a cake ready for a day you know that cakes are hard to come by last minute at a reasonable price. But, oops, the baker decided that it was cheaper or easier for them to use yellow frosting and make flowers instead of hearts. The baker was nice of course and called you and said "hey, just as a heads up, the cake I'm going to send you isn't the cake you ordered... no, of course you can't cancel the order - it's non-refundable.. oh, well, it's okay because I called and told you so you can plan around it." I mean, it's still a cake, and the color and shape of the frosting is completely immaterial right? You still got a cake on the day you wanted it. So it's all good, right?
Oh please. Abuse? This situation hardly qualifies as abuse.

Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?

I have had more flights following the schedule I purchased (pre covid) than changing beyond 30 minutes anyway. Not only is this making a mountain out of a mole hill, it is classic it doesn't work for me so it must be evil corporations and anyone who doesn't fit in my exact case and doesn't care must be a sucker and/or stupid. Give it a rest.
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Old Aug 4, 20, 10:24 pm
  #107  
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Originally Posted by defrosted View Post
Oh please. Abuse? This situation hardly qualifies as abuse.

Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?

I have had more flights following the schedule I purchased (pre covid) than changing beyond 30 minutes anyway. Not only is this making a mountain out of a mole hill, it is classic it doesn't work for me so it must be evil corporations and anyone who doesn't fit in my exact case and doesn't care must be a sucker and/or stupid. Give it a rest.
so if airlines can absolve them from any responsibility for the schedule, why do they pretend to give passengers a choice when it comes to schedule? And why do they rip off passengers for some departures and not the others?

if airlines bear no responsibility for their own schedules, why pretend they are going to transport passengers at specific times? And why charge them premium for some alleged departures?

and further, if airlines have no responsibility for schedules, why is a passenger penalized with hefty fines if he or she wants to change?
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Old Aug 4, 20, 10:28 pm
  #108  
 
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Originally Posted by smartytravel View Post
so if airlines can absolve them from any responsibility for the schedule, why do they pretend to give passengers a choice when it comes to schedule? And why do they rip off passengers for some departures and not the others?

if airlines bear no responsibility for their own schedules, why pretend they are going to transport passengers at specific times? And why charge them premium for some alleged departures?

and further, if airlines have no responsibility for schedules, why is a passenger penalized with hefty fines if he or she wants to change?
I am glad you think this is such a widespread problem.
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Old Aug 4, 20, 10:55 pm
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by smartytravel View Post
and further, if airlines have no responsibility for schedules, why is a passenger penalized with hefty fines if he or she wants to change?
Youíre welcome to book Southwest for your travel needs and Southwest works just fine for many travelers.. No change fees and no cancelation penalties on WN if your plans change.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 12:14 am
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by defrosted View Post
Oh please. Abuse? This situation hardly qualifies as abuse.

Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?

I have had more flights following the schedule I purchased (pre covid) than changing beyond 30 minutes anyway. Not only is this making a mountain out of a mole hill, it is classic it doesn't work for me so it must be evil corporations and anyone who doesn't fit in my exact case and doesn't care must be a sucker and/or stupid. Give it a rest.
Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
Youíre welcome to book Southwest for your travel needs and Southwest works just fine for many travelers.. No change fees and no cancelation penalties on WN if your plans change.
Agree. No airline is perfect but this is what we have. Vote with your dollars if you arenít happy with Delta. OP says 120 minutes is absurd, but others may feel 91 minutes is absurd. Iíve done same day meetings, and been very lucky everything went well. Itís a bit of gamble doing so pre COVID-19 and I got away with it, or I guess lucky that flights happened on time?

Anyhow, Covid-19 has changed everything and Iím giving the airlines a pass, just as I give Amazon a pass for on time delivery. I have important deliveries that have zero expectations they will arrive when scheduled. Client knows and fully understands.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 1:03 am
  #111  
 
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Originally Posted by COSPILOT View Post
Agree. No airline is perfect but this is what we have. Vote with your dollars if you arenít happy with Delta.
Except the US airline industry is an oligopoly with many routes essentially monopolies. Voting with your dollars doesn't really work.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 1:59 am
  #112  
 
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Originally Posted by LAX_Esq View Post
Except the US airline industry is an oligopoly with many routes essentially monopolies. Voting with your dollars doesn't really work.
Not disagreeing, but this is what we have to work with. In my younger days Iíd fight, but that was always a losing proposition. Now I just take what I can get and smile, most of the time it works in my favor. I donít fly Delta as often as United, but Iíll give Delta credit for treating me well when I do fly them, and very flexible even as as a non status member.

My wife and kids flew via Delta between OGG-DEN, and couldnít speak well enough about them. So Iím a UA guy generally, but I canít find a reason to fault DL. The new policy is inline with UA as far as I know, but given that Iím not faulting them.

Last edited by COSPILOT; Aug 5, 20 at 2:20 am
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Old Aug 5, 20, 8:44 am
  #113  
 
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Originally Posted by defrosted View Post
Oh please. Abuse? This situation hardly qualifies as abuse.

Also the analogy is silly, if the stipulations and common understanding is that they could use hearts or flowers and you still paid in advance, how can you blame the baker?
Hah - the "stipulations and common understanding"? You mean in this case where the baker advertises publicly the red frosting and hearts for Valentine's Day and then absolves themselves of blame in not a 1 or 2 page contract but a 36 page (Delta's CoC) document that would take the average reader 55 minutes to read (much less actually understand)?

I gave a solution that I thought was reasonable. If Delta wants to price different flights within a non-guaranteed time slot, they should clearly and proactively warn the customer that what they are buying is not guaranteed and the customer has no recourse should a change be made and that they will not get their $X back. These types of common-sense consumer warnings are common in industries regulated by groups with way less regulatory capture (like the FTC) rather than the FAA/DOT.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 9:06 am
  #114  
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Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
Hah - the "stipulations and common understanding"? You mean in this case where the baker advertises publicly the red frosting and hearts for Valentine's Day and then absolves themselves of blame in not a 1 or 2 page contract but a 36 page (Delta's CoC) document that would take the average reader 55 minutes to read (much less actually understand)?

I gave a solution that I thought was reasonable. If Delta wants to price different flights within a non-guaranteed time slot, they should clearly and proactively warn the customer that what they are buying is not guaranteed and the customer has no recourse should a change be made and that they will not get their $X back. These types of common-sense consumer warnings are common in industries regulated by groups with way less regulatory capture (like the FTC) rather than the FAA/DOT.
It appears that Delta and other airlines in this oligopolistic industry in the US want to have a cake and eat it, too. They want to charge premium for specific departure/arrival times, but they don't want to guarantee departure/arrival times that customers pay for.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 11:07 am
  #115  
 
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Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
Hah - the "stipulations and common understanding"? You mean in this case where the baker advertises publicly the red frosting and hearts for Valentine's Day and then absolves themselves of blame in not a 1 or 2 page contract but a 36 page (Delta's CoC) document that would take the average reader 55 minutes to read (much less actually understand)?

I gave a solution that I thought was reasonable. If Delta wants to price different flights within a non-guaranteed time slot, they should clearly and proactively warn the customer that what they are buying is not guaranteed and the customer has no recourse should a change be made and that they will not get their $X back. These types of common-sense consumer warnings are common in industries regulated by groups with way less regulatory capture (like the FTC) rather than the FAA/DOT.
Yeah, except we (travel savvy) all know about it, understand the concept, and the argument is the people that don't (not travel savvy) don't really care because they have a week or longer vacation not trying to schedule down to the minute travel days. So your point eludes me on this one.

Originally Posted by smartytravel View Post
It appears that Delta and other airlines in this oligopolistic industry in the US want to have a cake and eat it, too. They want to charge premium for specific departure/arrival times, but they don't want to guarantee departure/arrival times that customers pay for.
You need to stop hating the player and start hating the game. In other words if the root of your issue with this is the oligopolistic industry, then complain to (or about) your government representative and not Delta. Delta is going to do what Delta is going to do in the industry in which it exists.

With all the things that Delta does or doesn't do, adding 30 minutes to the timeline that determines when I get a refund instead of a credit isn't something I think I need to wring my hands about the evil corporations out to get us. Especially for a situation that doesn't often happen to me, or most people for that matter where is causes severe repercussions. Most times I am annoyed and just take a different flight, unlikely I would want a refund anyway.

I do find it interesting this is a hill you want to die on. This must happen to you a lot where you need the refund to buy a better timed flight on another airline and you can't because Delta stole your money. Don't get me wrong, I understand that would be infuriating. I just think overall it isn't that big of an issue for most.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 11:47 am
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by defrosted View Post
You need to stop hating the player and start hating the game. In other words if the root of your issue with this is the oligopolistic industry, then complain to (or about) your government representative and not Delta. Delta is going to do what Delta is going to do in the industry in which it exists.
We can hate all the players in the game, i.e., both the airline execs who engage in legalized corruption to essentially pay off the government to get away with what they do and the government officials who are on the other side of this legalized corruption. We can also realize that there's nothing we can do to change anything, and nobody running the airlines or the government cares a lick. Notwithstanding, we're all free to discuss/debate/complain/vent/b***h/argue about it on here.


With all the things that Delta does or doesn't do, adding 30 minutes to the timeline that determines when I get a refund instead of a credit isn't something I think I need to wring my hands about the evil corporations out to get us. Especially for a situation that doesn't often happen to me, or most people for that matter where is causes severe repercussions. Most times I am annoyed and just take a different flight, unlikely I would want a refund anyway.

I do find it interesting this is a hill you want to die on. This must happen to you a lot where you need the refund to buy a better timed flight on another airline and you can't because Delta stole your money. Don't get me wrong, I understand that would be infuriating. I just think overall it isn't that big of an issue for most.
All these sleazy consumer-unfriendly changes are incremental. The airlines chip away, one little thing at a time -- an extra fee here, a loyalty program devaluation there, an in-flight service cutback here, a unfavorable change to the delay policy there. Even if this isn't the biggest deal in the world, it's important to recognize the broader context.
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Old Aug 5, 20, 12:18 pm
  #117  
 
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Originally Posted by LAX_Esq View Post
We can hate all the players in the game, i.e., both the airline execs who engage in legalized corruption to essentially pay off the government to get away with what they do and the government officials who are on the other side of this legalized corruption. We can also realize that there's nothing we can do to change anything, and nobody running the airlines or the government cares a lick. Notwithstanding, we're all free to discuss/debate/complain/vent/b***h/argue about it on here.
Agreed, we may be able to argue about if this issue is actually corruption, but overall I concede to your points. Especially the "free to do all that here" part.

Originally Posted by LAX_Esq View Post
All these sleazy consumer-unfriendly changes are incremental. The airlines chip away, one little thing at a time -- an extra fee here, a loyalty program devaluation there, an in-flight service cutback here, a unfavorable change to the delay policy there. Even if this isn't the biggest deal in the world, it's important to recognize the broader context.
I get it, death by 1,000 cuts to the consumer. But to me the broader context here is Covid and I don't blame them. They need to keep all the cash they can right now as it is blowing out the window at numbers I can't fathom. I will forgive them the 30 minutes. Enough little savings add up to a lot for them and hopefully there will be a Delta to argue about for years to come.
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Old Aug 6, 20, 1:47 am
  #118  
 
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We're here arguing over airline policies which are actually pretty consumer friendly when we should be complaining about hotels. I booked a "refundable" room and when "cancelled" the same day at 3 AM was still charged for the night.
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Old Aug 6, 20, 1:05 pm
  #119  
 
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Originally Posted by smartytravel View Post
It appears that Delta and other airlines in this oligopolistic industry in the US want to have a cake and eat it, too.
In fairness, since there's not much else to do with cake besides eat it, what else do you suggest besides using a cake for eating?
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Old Aug 6, 20, 1:17 pm
  #120  
 
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
In fairness, since there's not much else to do with cake besides eat it, what else do you suggest besides using a cake for eating?
On this note, I've always thought "have your cake and eat it too" is a really dumb proverb, and I despise it. Obviously "have" is a synonym for eating, and having cake and eating cake is referring to the same. The proverb is trying to teach the lesson that you might only be able to have one of two different options. But having cake and eating cake are the same option.

If having cake somehow means keeping the cake and not eating it, cake is just a bad example to teach the proverb's lesson . What else is there to do with cake besides eat it? You can't invest it or save it.

So this dumb proverb essentially uses an example of cake that doesn't fit with the lesson it is trying to teach. Anyone else feel this way?
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