Air France / KLM O paid business class fare earning with Delta (Consolidated Thread)
Feb 19, 2019, 4:21 am
#46
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Just about to book a return flight AMS-CUR on KLM when I noticed that it would be not in J, C, I or Z, but in O class. I was used to O being used only for reward tickets, but it seems that KLM has started to use O as a regular fare class for revenue based tickets, using it for restricted business class fares.
However, in the current Delta Skymiles partner earning chart for KLM, O is not listed, which would mean that it would not earn MQM's or miles. Or it might be that the earning chart is simply outdated? Does anyone have any experience with this? Might have already taken a flight on an O class fare and had it credited? I have (of course) already contacted Delta about this but am still awaiting an answer.
However, in the current Delta Skymiles partner earning chart for KLM, O is not listed, which would mean that it would not earn MQM's or miles. Or it might be that the earning chart is simply outdated? Does anyone have any experience with this? Might have already taken a flight on an O class fare and had it credited? I have (of course) already contacted Delta about this but am still awaiting an answer.
Feb 19, 2019, 7:30 am
#47
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If other AF/KLM partners aren't crediting paid business class flights with booking/fare class O, it could be becasue AF/KLM views these as deeply discounted tickets and refuses to pay partners for the miles associated with these tickets. I would assume this really means no credit and not just that the charts are out of date but YMMV.
Feb 19, 2019, 8:12 am
#48
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Just about to book a return flight AMS-CUR on KLM when I noticed that it would be not in J, C, I or Z, but in O class. I was used to O being used only for reward tickets, but it seems that KLM has started to use O as a regular fare class for revenue based tickets, using it for restricted business class fares.
However, in the current Delta Skymiles partner earning chart for KLM, O is not listed, which would mean that it would not earn MQM's or miles. Or it might be that the earning chart is simply outdated? Does anyone have any experience with this? Might have already taken a flight on an O class fare and had it credited? I have (of course) already contacted Delta about this but am still awaiting an answer.
However, in the current Delta Skymiles partner earning chart for KLM, O is not listed, which would mean that it would not earn MQM's or miles. Or it might be that the earning chart is simply outdated? Does anyone have any experience with this? Might have already taken a flight on an O class fare and had it credited? I have (of course) already contacted Delta about this but am still awaiting an answer.
A X fare will also not earn miles.
Feb 26, 2019, 6:47 am
#49
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I assume the expertflyer "ticketing date" function is accurate. On 01FEB, there was a Z fare with a $695 base fare (+surcharges/taxes, etc.) available up until 04FEB, and no O fares. Since 02FEB, the O fare (Promotional Business Class) has been introduced ($690), and post 04FEB, the Z fare jumps to ($1055). However, both the O and Z fares currently on sale have the note below, expiring 10FEB. Curious what will happen after that, perhaps the O will disappear and the Z will return at the previous pricing, then you can change to Z for a INR 8335/~USD 117 fee.
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON/AFTER 02FEB 19 AND ON/BEFORE
10FEB 19.
UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED
TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON/AFTER 02FEB 19 AND ON/BEFORE
10FEB 19.
Feb 27, 2019, 1:32 am
#50
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I just got a reply to my enquiry with DL. My question was:
The answer:
Still no clear "yes, you will earn MQM's", but it seems that there is an opening. I have also opened a case with KLM about this and awaiting an answer on that.
The current KLM partner earning table lists classes J,C,D,I
and Z classes, but does not list O class. In the past, this class was
used for award travel, but KLM has started to use O class for regular
revenue based tickets, as restricted business class fares. For example,
fare KLM (KL) O3LSNL AMS to CUR, which is approximately $2000 round
trip. I was about to buy this ticket, but as far as I read the table,
booking such a fare would not earn Skymiles or MQM's, is that correct?
That seems odd, as a $650 economy round trip on the same flight would
earn 100% MQM. Or will the Skymiles earning table be updated to include
KLM's new use of O class for normal revenue based business fares? See
attachment for an example of such an O fare.
and Z classes, but does not list O class. In the past, this class was
used for award travel, but KLM has started to use O class for regular
revenue based tickets, as restricted business class fares. For example,
fare KLM (KL) O3LSNL AMS to CUR, which is approximately $2000 round
trip. I was about to buy this ticket, but as far as I read the table,
booking such a fare would not earn Skymiles or MQM's, is that correct?
That seems odd, as a $650 economy round trip on the same flight would
earn 100% MQM. Or will the Skymiles earning table be updated to include
KLM's new use of O class for normal revenue based business fares? See
attachment for an example of such an O fare.
Thank you for contacting us.
I can see how this would be confusing, booking the same code as an award
ticket using Delta SkyMiles. Due to this type of senario, our SkyMiles
department will determine the amount of miles earned once travel has
been completed.
The information is process at first as "non qualifying", and then
manually processed. Unfortunately, once you have completed your
journey, we do ask you to call Delta Air Lines reservations.
At that point the specialist will forward the information to the
SkyMiles team for processing.
Please accept our apology for the unfavorable impression you received in
this instance. We appreciate your selection of Delta and will always
consider it a privilege to be of service.
I can see how this would be confusing, booking the same code as an award
ticket using Delta SkyMiles. Due to this type of senario, our SkyMiles
department will determine the amount of miles earned once travel has
been completed.
The information is process at first as "non qualifying", and then
manually processed. Unfortunately, once you have completed your
journey, we do ask you to call Delta Air Lines reservations.
At that point the specialist will forward the information to the
SkyMiles team for processing.
Please accept our apology for the unfavorable impression you received in
this instance. We appreciate your selection of Delta and will always
consider it a privilege to be of service.
Feb 27, 2019, 2:22 am
#51
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this is very similar to the agreement dl had with su....su offered a deeply discounted business class that earned nothing with dl, whereas most other classes both in economy & business did qualify for mileage credit....
Feb 27, 2019, 2:24 am
#52
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Feb 27, 2019, 3:03 am
#53
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If other AF/KLM partners aren't crediting paid business class flights with booking/fare class O, it could be becasue AF/KLM views these as deeply discounted tickets and refuses to pay partners for the miles associated with these tickets. I would assume this really means no credit and not just that the charts are out of date but YMMV.
Feb 27, 2019, 3:11 am
#54
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These are in fact "deeply discounted" tickets ( flash sale / promo's ) BUT at the same time deeply discounted Economy tickets costing a fraction of the "O" tickets earn full MQM's/MQD's. it's hard to believe that i won't get any credit for an PAID business class ticket but would for an basic economy ticket costing ~10% of that "O" ticket. I'm still thinking that Delta was not aware of the fact that AF/KL now using that fare class for revenue tickets.
Feb 27, 2019, 3:19 am
#55
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For my BUD-CTU flight last summer, I twice requested credit. And both times was told no -- O fares are not on the chart and do not earn. I tried to make the case that when ticketing through KL, it is almost impossible to see the fare class until after the 24 hour cancel without penalty period has ended. No success.
Feb 27, 2019, 7:16 am
#56
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OP, checked the fare this morning and no change. Fare extended to FEB28. I was also watching the advance purchase requirements, as the "O" fares sold for June have 93 day AP requirement. But from looking at some other fares earlier in June, it appears "O" and "V" switch out to a 10 day AP at the same fares. I'm getting the feeling that this may be steady state for the foreseeable future (The fares are noted through DEC31, post that, neither O or Z exist).
The "deeply discounted" is of course RM babble. Prior to June 1, there is no "O" class. Post June 1, the new Z fare is priced at the old I, the new I at the old D, and so on, all the way up to J, which is simply increased. O is introduced to keep the lowest fare the same pre- and post-June 1. So, fly May 31 or June 1, same flight, same price. One day earn from Delta 200% redeemable, 150% MQM, and 40% MQD. The next day: nothing.
The "deeply discounted" is of course RM babble. Prior to June 1, there is no "O" class. Post June 1, the new Z fare is priced at the old I, the new I at the old D, and so on, all the way up to J, which is simply increased. O is introduced to keep the lowest fare the same pre- and post-June 1. So, fly May 31 or June 1, same flight, same price. One day earn from Delta 200% redeemable, 150% MQM, and 40% MQD. The next day: nothing.
Feb 27, 2019, 7:42 am
#57
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The "deeply discounted" is of course RM babble. Prior to June 1, there is no "O" class. Post June 1, the new Z fare is priced at the old I, the new I at the old D, and so on, all the way up to J, which is simply increased. O is introduced to keep the lowest fare the same pre- and post-June 1. So, fly May 31 or June 1, same flight, same price. One day earn from Delta 200% redeemable, 150% MQM, and 40% MQD. The next day: nothing.
Feb 27, 2019, 2:54 pm
#58
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For me it's simple: I'm not going to buy any KLM business class fare anymore until I get the 100% guarantee that these will earn MQM's with skymiles. KLM is now using O exactly as they were using Z until about a month ago. I noticed that O has also been added to the Bluebiz earning table (Bluebiz is KLM's Skybonus equivalent program). There, it is equivalent to I, C, Z and J. So I expect this to simply be an oversight and I hope that they will sort it out sooner rather than later.
In the mean time, there is no reason whatsover for Skyteam loyalty on those flights that would book as O and are just as expensive - or cheaper - with other alliances. Might be a good opportunity to do a status match challange. I don't think that it is in the best interest of both Delta and KLM to have loyal customers move to other airlines, simply because of an oversight such as this. Any normal published fare should be honered for qualification miles or there is no reason whatsover for loyalty to an airline or alliance.
In the mean time, there is no reason whatsover for Skyteam loyalty on those flights that would book as O and are just as expensive - or cheaper - with other alliances. Might be a good opportunity to do a status match challange. I don't think that it is in the best interest of both Delta and KLM to have loyal customers move to other airlines, simply because of an oversight such as this. Any normal published fare should be honered for qualification miles or there is no reason whatsover for loyalty to an airline or alliance.
Feb 27, 2019, 9:10 pm
#59
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For me it's simple: I'm not going to buy any KLM business class fare anymore until I get the 100% guarantee that these will earn MQM's with skymiles. KLM is now using O exactly as they were using Z until about a month ago. I noticed that O has also been added to the Bluebiz earning table (Bluebiz is KLM's Skybonus equivalent program). There, it is equivalent to I, C, Z and J. So I expect this to simply be an oversight and I hope that they will sort it out sooner rather than later.
In the mean time, there is no reason whatsover for Skyteam loyalty on those flights that would book as O and are just as expensive - or cheaper - with other alliances. Might be a good opportunity to do a status match challange. I don't think that it is in the best interest of both Delta and KLM to have loyal customers move to other airlines, simply because of an oversight such as this. Any normal published fare should be honered for qualification miles or there is no reason whatsover for loyalty to an airline or alliance.
In the mean time, there is no reason whatsover for Skyteam loyalty on those flights that would book as O and are just as expensive - or cheaper - with other alliances. Might be a good opportunity to do a status match challange. I don't think that it is in the best interest of both Delta and KLM to have loyal customers move to other airlines, simply because of an oversight such as this. Any normal published fare should be honered for qualification miles or there is no reason whatsover for loyalty to an airline or alliance.
This is not really different than reduced/no earnings on basic economy fares. I do think it's out of line with a business fare. However it seems to be what people want.
Feb 28, 2019, 5:34 am
#60
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Delta underwent a fare realignment with KL and AF a number of years ago so that fare classes were consistent across the airlines. It seems like KL has gone a bit rogue with their use of the 'O' booking classes here and Delta's published earning chart simply doesn't yet reflect this change. If I had to guess, the fare realignment covered all flights as a matter of convenience, but technically only covered codeshare flights (which AMS-CUR is not), giving KL latitude to make this change.