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Big change on Upgrade policy Ex-AMS ( maybe more EU)

Big change on Upgrade policy Ex-AMS ( maybe more EU)

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Old Jan 11, 19, 10:01 am
  #1  
Used to be guidogh
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Big change on Upgrade policy Ex-AMS ( maybe more EU)

I have learned at AMS todat that Delta Air lines have informed KLM that no upgrades are allowed to be done from amsterdam. mailing to KLm as per JAN 1.

No DoD Mileage or payed upgrade, no matter your status, ticket stock, fare class etc..
KLM confirmed that some Delta D1 cabins go out half empty there where there are customers ( including Diamonds) that want to do mileage or payed upgrades. DL does not allow that at this time.

Only exception is for GUC's, they can still be applied.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 10:29 am
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Will GUC upgrades to D1 actually be processed at AMS? In fact, have the T&Cs on GUCs been updated to officially permit this?
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Old Jan 11, 19, 10:38 am
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Before we can begin to understanding the changes, if any, we need to see and understand the wording of the change.

In recent past, at least in my experience, I believe KLM (and also AF) took over the reservations and had essentially full control 24 hours prior. That essentially meant no online seat changes, upgrades (comfort or business), or much of anything. If this was so last year, I'm not understanding the change this year.

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Old Jan 11, 19, 10:43 am
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I understand the OP to say that for DL operated TATL flights exAMS, KLM will no longer be selling cheap day of departure upgrades at the airport or allowing people to upgrade at AMS on the day of departure with (either DL or AF/KLM FB) miles, with or without a copay. Instead, GUC upgrades will be processed at AMS (and of course remaining D1 seats will be assigned to nonrevs), presumably by KLM agents handling the flight at AMS (although DL might decide to assign a DL employee GA to each flight for this purpose).
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Old Jan 11, 19, 11:14 am
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If DL is announcing this, my guess is that we are going to see more offers for upgrade during online check-in. Perhaps AF/KL was getting a commission on those sales or something and DL wants the revenue coming directly to DL?

I assume full fare J will still be sold.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 11:28 am
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel View Post
If DL is announcing this, my guess is that we are going to see more offers for upgrade during online check-in. Perhaps AF/KL was getting a commission on those sales or something and DL wants the revenue coming directly to DL?
It's a JV, that revenue has to be split regardless of who collects it. This is almost certainly not about revenue at all and is instead about "protecting the integrity" of D1 (or whatever phrase they use).

I assume full fare J will still be sold.
well yeah
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Old Jan 11, 19, 11:38 am
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I heard a few things recently, all from the DM desk, so it *should* be reasonably reliable, but I know they're not insiders:

1) The turn-over time was 30-hours, not 24 -- i.e. when AF / KL "take control" of your ticket.
2) Too many GUC-wielding "Elites" (this one included) were being dumped in favor of SM/$$ upgrades once they got that control.
3) One particular desk agent said they always know when CDG/AMS flights are nearing departure because of a rash of call-in complaints from Elites on those flights.
4) AF is the worst offender, KL comes next, when completely ignoring direct requests from DL on behalf of pax. So there's no love-loss between the various agents.

So, while this is quasi-speculative, this may be DL putting the brakes on some of this Wild Wild West window nuttery.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 12:01 pm
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Originally Posted by pvn View Post
It's a JV, that revenue has to be split regardless of who collects it. This is almost certainly not about revenue at all and is instead about "protecting the integrity" of D1 (or whatever phrase they use).
Ah, good point. Unless, did this incentivize AF/KL to sell DOD upgrades rather than process GUCs? I assume that AF/KL got nothing from a GUC being processed. That would connect to the info that TheHorta shared.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 12:17 pm
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To be honest, Iím surprised they didnít put the brakes on this years ago. I agree the AMS customer experience around KL handlint has gotten worse and that the GUC gate clearance process there is a hot mess, so I suspect this is part of a larger effort to feel more consistent and less like KLM is running the show. Plus, theyíll now no longer be undercutting DL revenue managementís wishes.

Hopefully the next step is to staff up DL employees there. The AMS redcoat team is fabulous and incredibly helpful - the exact opposite of the misanthropic crew KLM staffs gates and lounges with. Having been caught in the gap between JV partners on multiple occasions - in one case, nearly missing a connecting flight because KLM didnít think I was ticketed when I was - I would love to see things feel more consistent and pleasant out of AMS.

Until then, this removes the last reason to connect in AMS, in my book, and now Iím 100% team CDG whenever possible...
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Old Jan 11, 19, 12:50 pm
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I’ve never found the cash/miles prices to be low enough for me to be willing to buy them for a daytime flight, especially compared to the 25K miles upgrades from PE to UC/Business on VS and AF.

While there are some flaws in the AMS experience, I have a fondness for the Netherlands and will continue to enjoy going through AMS occasionally just to set foot in that country.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 12:53 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post
To be honest, Iím surprised they didnít put the brakes on this years ago. I agree the AMS customer experience around KL handlint has gotten worse and that the GUC gate clearance process there is a hot mess, so I suspect this is part of a larger effort to feel more consistent and less like KLM is running the show. Plus, theyíll now no longer be undercutting DL revenue managementís wishes.

Hopefully the next step is to staff up DL employees there. The AMS redcoat team is fabulous and incredibly helpful - the exact opposite of the misanthropic crew KLM staffs gates and lounges with. Having been caught in the gap between JV partners on multiple occasions - in one case, nearly missing a connecting flight because KLM didnít think I was ticketed when I was - I would love to see things feel more consistent and pleasant out of AMS.

Until then, this removes the last reason to connect in AMS, in my book, and now Iím 100% team CDG whenever possible...
First of all, what I stated is not my opinion or anything. It is purely the statement of the KLagents at the Crown lounge at AMS.Secondly, you ask why they didnt put an end to it? Let me ask a question:
If all GUC upgrades have cleared and processed. And 1 hour prior departure there are 2 open D1 seats left. What is the harm selling them for some cash or miles to first come first serve, or the interested person with the highest status?
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Old Jan 11, 19, 1:00 pm
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Originally Posted by Hollandair View Post
. What is the harm selling them for some cash or miles to first come first serve, or the interested person with the highest status?
Delta's thinking is clearly that if upgrades are easily/cheaply available that demand for paid D1 will go down.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 1:04 pm
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I wonder if this will drive any traffic to KL tickets & metal, where I assume upgrades will still be possible?
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Old Jan 11, 19, 1:31 pm
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Originally Posted by pvn View Post
Delta's thinking is clearly that if upgrades are easily/cheaply available that demand for paid D1 will go down.
There is a lot between easy and cheap upgrades, and making it impossible.. I have seen upgrades offers in the lounge for 500-900 euros which I do not find specifically cheap, especially for a 7-8 day flight, but DL right not does not allow me to pay 750 EUR for a seat that otherwise would go out unsold and empty..
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Old Jan 11, 19, 1:32 pm
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Originally Posted by Hollandair View Post
First of all, what I stated is not my opinion or anything. It is purely the statement of the KLagents at the Crown lounge at AMS.Secondly, you ask why they didnt put an end to it? Let me ask a question:
If all GUC upgrades have cleared and processed. And 1 hour prior departure there are 2 open D1 seats left. What is the harm selling them for some cash or miles to first come first serve, or the interested person with the highest status?
If I understand correctly, the problem is AF/KL are selling DOD cash upgrades before all GUCs have cleared (in addition to the revenue dilution issue already pointed out - why pay full price for something now you think you may get for a steep discount later)
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