Big change on Upgrade policy Ex-AMS ( maybe more EU)
Jan 11, 2019, 7:20 pm
#31
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP, IHG Diamond, IC Amb
Posts: 5,511
This makes me even happier that I switched to AA/BA!!!
Until 2017, I took advantage of the DoD mileage + co-pay DL EX-AMS offers on every available flight! I used to fly through AMS simply for this reason.
DL sucks for cheap international upgrades to J for us cheapo mileage-running vacationers.
I have been able to upgrade from cheap Y fares to J on literally every single AA-metal flight LAX-HKG and LAX-LHR in the last 2 years--I haven't been stuck in Y once. lol
Until 2017, I took advantage of the DoD mileage + co-pay DL EX-AMS offers on every available flight! I used to fly through AMS simply for this reason.
DL sucks for cheap international upgrades to J for us cheapo mileage-running vacationers.
I have been able to upgrade from cheap Y fares to J on literally every single AA-metal flight LAX-HKG and LAX-LHR in the last 2 years--I haven't been stuck in Y once. lol
Jan 11, 2019, 7:25 pm
#32
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP, IHG Diamond, IC Amb
Posts: 5,511
The harm is that people may start booking economy tickets, knowing they can consistently upgrade to business for a fraction of the retail price at the airport. And KLM was often selling the day of departure upgrades first come first served *before* processing waitlisted GUC instruments, thereby skipping over any sort of upgrade priority list. Delta doesn’t offer a departure day buy up option at any other airport for their own flights - it was only a KLM program at AMS.
I know that I had previously changed my booking patterns to account for the easy availability of day of departure upgrades at AMS, and I suspect I wasn’t the only one.
haha,.....same for me!!!
Jan 11, 2019, 7:55 pm
#33
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SEA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 292
I've flown through AMS quite a bit but only last year as DM. There are threads with pages upon pages of what a hot mess ex-AMS seems to be.
Before I was a medallion, probably not even collecting miles, there was a period where every time I asked the gate agents for an upgrade I received one. That was before introduction of D1. I am 6'7", and look Dutch, so it could have had a part in it.
Last year I waitlisted AMS-SEA and had a hell of a time getting the upgrade to clear. The lounge was very unhelpful. Finally a gate agent upgraded me and without taking my GUC. Can't really complain there.
The possibility of getting a 200 EUR plus 35k D1 upgrade always enticed me but was never successful. I think I'd rather have Delta clean it up, to make it more consistent if possible. I'll buy D1 if reasonable, but last minute 10k USD prices are not and that's when GUC or USD upgrades are great.
Before I was a medallion, probably not even collecting miles, there was a period where every time I asked the gate agents for an upgrade I received one. That was before introduction of D1. I am 6'7", and look Dutch, so it could have had a part in it.
Last year I waitlisted AMS-SEA and had a hell of a time getting the upgrade to clear. The lounge was very unhelpful. Finally a gate agent upgraded me and without taking my GUC. Can't really complain there.
The possibility of getting a 200 EUR plus 35k D1 upgrade always enticed me but was never successful. I think I'd rather have Delta clean it up, to make it more consistent if possible. I'll buy D1 if reasonable, but last minute 10k USD prices are not and that's when GUC or USD upgrades are great.
Jan 11, 2019, 7:57 pm
#34
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: UA- 1K, DL-DM, AA-G, BON-T
Posts: 337
My guess is the change is to prevent KL from filling J seats with paid upgrades and non revs too quickly (beacause KL has control). The last time I was in AMS, my DL flight was delayed. I asked at another gate to be put on another DL flight to JFK. The agent refused even though 2 J tickets were still for sale. So I just called the DL US number and got on the flight (I was on a paid J ticket). When I went back to the gate, the KL agent went crazy (asked for my phone and yelled at the DL phone agent). So my guess is DL wants to retain more control over last min J availability even though KL has control. I still don’t understand how DL’s phone line and websites show seats available (and sell them) but KL gate agents see them taken. I think this is what is driving the change.
Jan 11, 2019, 8:21 pm
#35
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I'm not sure. I think they may care more about their GUC program having at least *some* real opportunity for upgrade, and not totally pissing off their best customers, more than they care about this one very small revenue stream of DOD upgrades at one airport. And, if for any reason KL was trying to sell these upgrades before clearing GUC's so that they could earn more revenue, I could see that upsetting DL.
Plus, I think you ethernal was right to question the idea that DL is trying to protect their product here. ~$600 + 25K miles (so for arguments sake $850) for a one way upgrade is really not, as ethernal said, a super discounted price compared to advanced purchase fares. It's a good deal, for sure, but if you think of the r/t price of that $1K coach ticket plus $850 each way (which I know you can't actually do), you are at $2700 for a TATL J ticket. A good price, but findable with an advanced purchase.
Plus, I think you ethernal was right to question the idea that DL is trying to protect their product here. ~$600 + 25K miles (so for arguments sake $850) for a one way upgrade is really not, as ethernal said, a super discounted price compared to advanced purchase fares. It's a good deal, for sure, but if you think of the r/t price of that $1K coach ticket plus $850 each way (which I know you can't actually do), you are at $2700 for a TATL J ticket. A good price, but findable with an advanced purchase.
This depends on whether you're a hub captive and which hub is yours. I consider any TATL D1 RT fare under about $4000 to be surprisingly good and during the last several years, I've only seen fares under about $3000 for one European destination. This includes awkward overnight connections etc. as well as holiday periods.
BTW today I looked on delta.dumb at some information about GUCs and upgrades, although not the official GUC T&Cs. I didn't see any change to the language about no DOD GUC clearance for DL flights exAMS and exCDG.
BTW today I looked on delta.dumb at some information about GUCs and upgrades, although not the official GUC T&Cs. I didn't see any change to the language about no DOD GUC clearance for DL flights exAMS and exCDG.
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Jan 11, 2019 at 8:29 pm
Wildcat paris strikes
Jan 11, 2019, 9:16 pm
#37
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
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UG’s have always been a mess in AMS. First aDL should release more J availability for GUC and or mileage upgrades at 48hrs. And to think that GUCs will be better after this for DOD UG good luck.
Jan 11, 2019, 9:28 pm
#38
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 159
My guess is the change is to prevent KL from filling J seats with paid upgrades and non revs too quickly (beacause KL has control). The last time I was in AMS, my DL flight was delayed. I asked at another gate to be put on another DL flight to JFK. The agent refused even though 2 J tickets were still for sale. So I just called the DL US number and got on the flight (I was on a paid J ticket). When I went back to the gate, the KL agent went crazy (asked for my phone and yelled at the DL phone agent). So my guess is DL wants to retain more control over last min J availability even though KL has control. I still don’t understand how DL’s phone line and websites show seats available (and sell them) but KL gate agents see them taken. I think this is what is driving the change.
Jan 12, 2019, 7:33 am
#40
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
This depends on whether you're a hub captive and which hub is yours. I consider any TATL D1 RT fare under about $4000 to be surprisingly good and during the last several years, I've only seen fares under about $3000 for one European destination. This includes awkward overnight connections etc. as well as holiday periods.
BTW today I looked on delta.dumb at some information about GUCs and upgrades, although not the official GUC T&Cs. I didn't see any change to the language about no DOD GUC clearance for DL flights exAMS and exCDG.
BTW today I looked on delta.dumb at some information about GUCs and upgrades, although not the official GUC T&Cs. I didn't see any change to the language about no DOD GUC clearance for DL flights exAMS and exCDG.
Jan 12, 2019, 8:08 am
#41
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,063
The figures I cited were for nonstops out of Atlanta - the most fortress of fortress hubs. The only catch is a Saturday night stay / 7 day minimum but otherwise sub-$3k to AMS is super common. I've ironically pointed out in other threads that this means that Delta's 500K SkyPesos round trip redemptions for the same mean that you're getting a laughable .6 cents per mile.
Jan 12, 2019, 8:15 am
#42
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pagus Bracbatensis, Kingdom of the Netherlands
Programs: DL SPlat, KLM Bump, Privium Plus, GOES
Posts: 2,066
After Hollandair informed me on the 9th of January I asked the KLM agents today at lounge 25 to verify one and another:
As a SM member on the DoD at AMS
Upgrades on Delta operated flights: miles no, GUC's yes
Upgrades on KLM operated flights:
miles yes, GUC's yes.
As a SM member on the DoD at AMS
Upgrades on Delta operated flights: miles no, GUC's yes
Upgrades on KLM operated flights:
miles yes, GUC's yes.
Jan 12, 2019, 8:51 am
#43
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,373
does this only open 3 hours before flight? I thought from the other threads it was anytime day of departure, but couldn’t find a definitive answer.
Jan 12, 2019, 9:07 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
Fair - the $2600 fares have D1 options for only 330K. The $3500 fares are 500K. But still, this is well under 1 cpm. Ex-ATL at least this seems to be the rule on any discounted D1 fares - your redemption rate is < 1 cpm if you try to book with SkyMiles.
Jan 12, 2019, 9:10 am
#45
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
An important point, but not related to the issue at hand. This is about day of departure upgrades that are purchased that day, only at AMS, not about pax waitlisted for upgrade by DL using DL upgrade instruments.