Delta Wants To Be 797 Launch Customer
#91
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You like the Airbus philosophy so that's great. I have no issue with that. I don't agree with it. So I stay off of them. We all have our priorities in life. It's nothing to get mad about.
#93
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#94
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As a business matter, if Boeing offers a MOM airplane (2-3-2 configuration, seating 250, 5000 nmi range as has been mooted) Delta will almost certainly order some, so will UA, perhaps the Japanese and/or Chinese carriers, I happen to think that the existing sales of the A321neo combined with a likely stretch will turn this plane into a money-losing nitch aircraft, sandwiched between the lower CASM of the A321/A322 and the ability to use existing A330s/B788/789s on some of the same missions. I really don't think that esoteric assertions that Boeing A/C are purportedly safer, or pilot preferred, will have diddly to do with what gets bought.
#95
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I happen to think that the existing sales of the A321neo combined with a likely stretch will turn this plane into a money-losing nitch aircraft, sandwiched between the lower CASM of the A321/A322 and the ability to use existing A330s/B788/789s on some of the same missions.
I really don't think that esoteric assertions that Boeing A/C are purportedly safer, or pilot preferred, will have diddly to do with what gets bought.
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#97
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As a business matter, if Boeing offers a MOM airplane (2-3-2 configuration, seating 250, 5000 nmi range as has been mooted) Delta will almost certainly order some, so will UA, perhaps the Japanese and/or Chinese carriers, I happen to think that the existing sales of the A321neo combined with a likely stretch will turn this plane into a money-losing nitch aircraft, sandwiched between the lower CASM of the A321/A322 and the ability to use existing A330s/B788/789s on some of the same missions. I really don't think that esoteric assertions that Boeing A/C are purportedly safer, or pilot preferred, will have diddly to do with what gets bought.
While my knowledge of airplane design is limited so this may be an ignorant hypothesis, but my hypothesis is when they do their cleansheet design of the 737 they will plan for / co-design a super stretched version that will become their "new 757". With more efficient engines and a lighter composite frame it should be 'easy' to get this to the MoM range (~5000 nm) they need without sacrificing too much cargo capacity.
Last edited by ethernal; Feb 19, 2018 at 6:49 am
#98
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Delta does not care who they do biz with as long as they get a good deal. I believe the whole reason DL said it wants to be the launch customer is so they can influence the specs to optimize the aircraft to fit Delta's need. If DL can get a brand new plane built to its specs, they view it as a good deal and would do a deal with Boeing in a heartbeat. Interesting article on Bloomberg about the 797 today: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...of-new-797-jet
Given that most future purchases of the 797 will not be U.S. airlines, I don't think DL will have much success in getting the plane built to their specs. If they do not get it built to their specs there is no way they will be the launch customer and will probably fill the gap left by 757/767 retirements through a hodgepodge of cheap used aircraft.
Given that most future purchases of the 797 will not be U.S. airlines, I don't think DL will have much success in getting the plane built to their specs. If they do not get it built to their specs there is no way they will be the launch customer and will probably fill the gap left by 757/767 retirements through a hodgepodge of cheap used aircraft.
#99
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I don't understand why Boeing doesn't start with the 757 frame and update the avionics and the engines, and maybe a few other tweaks. It seems like that would satisfy 95% of what airlines are looking for with a MOM plane, and would be done at a fraction of the cost.
#100
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I think Boeing wants a clean design for the 797 and have it share commonality with the 737 replacement. In theory an all Boeing airline could get by with just two pilot groups with next generation Boeing aircraft. The 777 and 787 can be flown with the same pilots after differences training and then the other pilot group can fly both the 797 and the 737 replacement (808?).
#101
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All the 757 tooling is gone. Given the cost of rebuilding all of that infrastructure, it makes far more sense to start from a clean slate.
#102
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I think Boeing wants a clean design for the 797 and have it share commonality with the 737 replacement. In theory an all Boeing airline could get by with just two pilot groups with next generation Boeing aircraft. The 777 and 787 can be flown with the same pilots after differences training and then the other pilot group can fly both the 797 and the 737 replacement (808?).
It seems to me something at least in the same specs of a 757 would be the actual MOM plane. Only one aisle so fewer crew are needed, ~240 passengers, with range to cover TCON US, East Coast TATL, and some Inter Asia flying...what am I missing that Boeing and the airlines aren't?
#103
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It seems to me something at least in the same specs of a 757 would be the actual MOM plane. Only one aisle so fewer crew are needed, ~240 passengers, with range to cover TCON US, East Coast TATL, and some Inter Asia flying...what am I missing that Boeing and the airlines aren't?
#105
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I agree that it seems like the economics imply that a narrowbody is best to fit the MoM (disappointing because widebodies are superior from a customer experience perspective, but it is what it is). I'd be very surprised if Delta comes out with a 797 as a widebody (although with that said I am not an airplane designer so I don't fully understand the tradeoffs between the different options).
But this is sounding more and more like a camel...a horse that's built by committee.