Delta Wants To Be 797 Launch Customer

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Old Feb 13, 18, 8:49 pm
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Delta Wants To Be 797 Launch Customer

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ine&yptr=yahoo

Yeah, no. There is no way Boeing is going to fall for that. We've seen it time and time again. Delta hasn't had any interest in Boeing in nearly a decade. They only use Boeing to get a better price from Airbus. With a fleet of 300 A321's this just isn't going to happen. Delta is firmly in the hands of Airbus and it will remain that way.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 8:55 pm
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Every time I see a picture of Ed Bastian the image of a used car salesman pops in my head.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 9:00 pm
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Originally Posted by apodo77 View Post
Every time I see a picture of Ed Bastian the image of a used car salesman pops in my head.
Exactly. He and Anderson are about as sleazy as they come. It wouldn't surprise me if they are both involved in the current Airbus corruption investigation.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 9:24 pm
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I guess Airbus has no plans for something similar.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 9:30 pm
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR View Post
I guess Airbus has no plans for something similar.
The A330neo has been a real loser in sales. I'm guessing Airbus will offer Dslta more at a rock bottom price to replace the remaining widebodies. Of course the A330 is way too big for anything other than hub-hub traffic so you will see a lot of current 767/757 routes canceled. Enjoy connecting in CDG/AMS!
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Old Feb 13, 18, 9:36 pm
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This thread is ridiculous.... I fully believe the 797 will be a rockstar plane (if Boeing invests in it correctly, and creates a true middle of market) and Delta will take it. They are going to need something that is a true 75/76 replacement that can continue to allow for strong focus cities to be connected to Europe, etc.

As far as Richard vs Ed, Delta is only buying new planes right now...
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Old Feb 13, 18, 9:37 pm
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Yep. That's why DL would have an interest in a 797. It's either that or order some more 767s.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 9:54 pm
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This sort of post strikes me as an airliners.net kind of post. OP, do you have a short on DL stock or something? You really seem to have it in for Delta's relationship with Boeing since this is definitely not your first rodeo with this topic. Valentine's Day is tomorrow, maybe you can send Boeing some flowers signed Delta?
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Old Feb 13, 18, 10:09 pm
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Originally Posted by davedeboston View Post
This sort of post strikes me as an airliners.net kind of post. OP, do you have a short on DL stock or something? You really seem to have it in for Delta's relationship with Boeing since this is definitely not your first rodeo with this topic. Valentine's Day is tomorrow, maybe you can send Boeing some flowers signed Delta?
LOL good idea.

I just think it is beyond fishy that Boeing has lost every Delta aircraft bid. Delta is the only major US airline to not operate the 787 or 737Max. They can't be as bad as Delta claims or the other airlines wouldn't have ordered thousands of them. I just don't see this as anything other than trying to get a lower price from Airbus. If I were Boeing I'd send Delta the MSRP pricing list and say that is the lowest they will go. There is no need for their sales team to waste their time on a dead end like Delta.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 10:21 pm
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I know the usuals will badger on this but I'll say Delta will be a launch customer of the 797, especially if the GTF or RR engines are selected to power the aircraft. Delta is going to keep the 21 younger GE powered 1998-2001 767-300ERs well into next decade. When the RFP for the 747/767 replacement was ongoing, Delta specified they were looking for a plane that had a range 5500 nm, about 500 nm less than the 767-300ER. Airbus responded by launching the A330 NEO. The A330-900 NEO really was the only aircraft to compete for a 767 replacement as Boeing offered no such comparable aircraft. Since the launch, the NEO has not sold particularly well, especially if AirAsiaX swaps their entire order of 66 A330-900 NEOs to the A350-900. The only other major order for the NEO is from Iran Air. I'll leave it to the rest of you to judge Iran Air. (Mine ain't pretty but that's for another forum.)

While one would think this would be good for Delta as Airbus would just keep offering more and more NEOs on the cheap until the last 767-300ER is retire. One problem, its too big for many of Delta's thinner TATL routes, especially during the winter! So we come to the potential solution of the A330-800 NEO. One problem, the aircraft has one customer, HAL, who, in recent months, has said it is reconsidering the order. Why? HAL isn't sure its worth the investment of such a small fleet where the re-sale value is non-existent. In fact, outing CEO Mark Dunkerley stated HAL has considering ordering the 787-9. If Boeing gave them a generous offer, like the one they gave to Air Tahiti Nui, which is still rather surprising as no one thought they'd take a non-Airbus replacement for the A340-300s, HAL may very well accept it.

Also, the A330-800 NEO has nearly as much range as the 787-8. Delta does not want aircraft with range that exceeds the 777-200ER to be flying predominately TATL and Deep South America.

While Delta is known for being the predominant operator of the 717 and the only operator left of the MD-90, several problems with aircraft maintenance can arise as seen with the long term parking of several MD-90s waiting for their engines. While the A330-900 NEO and A330-800 NEO will have great commonality, there will still be a parts problem if Delta ends up being one of the only operators of the aircraft.

This year will most likely be the make or break year for the 797 and the A330-800 NEO. The A330-800 is awaiting engine install for its first flight but only six aircraft for HAL are scheduled for delivery. AA has been mentioned as a potential customer for the aircraft, swapping its A350-900 order for the A330-800 NEO. Personally, I think its much more likely they take delivery of the A350-900 than swap for the A330-800 NEO. This year Boeing will launch the 797. News from the Singapore Air Show is Boeing is working with PW/RR/GE/CFM on an engine for the aircraft. While Boeing comments the business case isn't closed, its pretty close. There are many operators of the 757/767 that have let to find a final replacement for these aircraft. Note none of the majors have yet to order the LR version of the A321 NEO. When Delta ordered the 100 A321 NEOs, they did not indicate they will be taking the LR version. All of them are scheduled to be replacements for older narrowbodies. With the US3 updating their International 757 fleets, its pretty clear what they think of the A321 NEO LR. While the A321 NEO will be a fantastic aircraft for Delta's domestic fleet, Delta may not be entirely sold on the A321 NEO LR as a replacement for the 75S fleet.*

*The 75S fleet is slightly older than the 21 GE powered 767-300ERs Delta intends to keep long term. Their replacement will very likely be in the same order for the remaining 767-300ERs.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 10:22 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post


LOL good idea.

I just think it is beyond fishy that Boeing has lost every Delta aircraft bid. Delta is the only major US airline to not operate the 787 or 737Max. They can't be as bad as Delta claims or the other airlines wouldn't have ordered thousands of them. I just don't see this as anything other than trying to get a lower price from Airbus. If I were Boeing I'd send Delta the MSRP pricing list and say that is the lowest they will go. There is no need for their sales team to waste their time on a dead end like Delta.
Get a better price from Airbus on what exactly? The A321LR replace the 757 on some international routes, but it doesn't go up into 767 territory like the 797 will. And as you already mentioned, the A330neo is way too big.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 10:25 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post


The A330neo has been a real loser in sales. I'm guessing Airbus will offer Dslta more at a rock bottom price to replace the remaining widebodies. Of course the A330 is way too big for anything other than hub-hub traffic so you will see a lot of current 767/757 routes canceled. Enjoy connecting in CDG/AMS!
You're right, that 8 seat difference between a 763 and A332 is enough to make routes completely uneconomical... If you're looking at A330neo specifically then yea, it's got an extra 20-30 seats which will bust some routes, but to say it's only good for hub-hub traffic is a bit of a stretch.

You have a point on the 757, but an A321neoLR more than matches a 752 for medium range thin routes - at a 20-25% lower CASM to boot.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 10:28 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ine&yptr=yahoo

Yeah, no. There is no way Boeing is going to fall for that. We've seen it time and time again. Delta hasn't had any interest in Boeing in nearly a decade. They only use Boeing to get a better price from Airbus. With a fleet of 300 A321's this just isn't going to happen. Delta is firmly in the hands of Airbus and it will remain that way.
in the last 6 years Delta has purchased almost 140 Boeing aircraft. The last 10 purchased in 2017.
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Old Feb 13, 18, 10:37 pm
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Originally Posted by jamiestr View Post
As far as Richard vs Ed, Delta is only buying new planes right now...
Technically, DL did get 4 used 738s from GOL last year (although they are only about 4 years old and are newer than the rest of DL's 738s) and got 5 757s from Shanghai Airlines in 2016 but I get your point that Ed has not bought nearly as many used aircrafts as many as Richard did. (Although I did like the 717s order that came from FL but hated the MD-90 pickups)
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Old Feb 13, 18, 10:41 pm
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Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
You're right, that 8 seat difference between a 763 and A332 is enough to make routes completely uneconomical... If you're looking at A330neo specifically then yea, it's got an extra 20-30 seats which will bust some routes, but to say it's only good for hub-hub traffic is a bit of a stretch.

You have a point on the 757, but an A321neoLR more than matches a 752 for medium range thin routes - at a 20-25% lower CASM to boot.
The A332 is too heavy and has too much range to be viable on many 767 routes.
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