May 27, 2018, 12:36 pm
Last edit by: audidudi
DRAFT WIKI: I've started this on May 27, 2018 as a first pass, but need to pull more info from the rest of the thread. Feel free to add!
What flights are eligible to be upgraded?
As relevant to this thread, original booking must be:
- DL ticketed (006 stock)
- DL marketed (DL flight #)
- VS operated
NOTE ON MIXED CABIN BOOKINGS: If you are booked in coach for a domestic portion on Delta and then connecting to a VS Premium Economy segment, and trying to upgrade only the VS PE segment with DL miles, the upgrade request may be rejected by Virgin when the DL agent attempt to process it. Ask to be transferred to the international reissue desk. Explain that they will need to remove the domestic coach portion of your flight, then process the upgrade, and then reattach the domestic Y portion. VS will accept the upgrade only when the coach segment has been removed, and this all needs to be done manually by Delta.
How do I know mileage upgrade space is available?
You can either call Delta and ask the agent to check or check online. If you are going to call, see note below about how to explain this to the phone agent. Or, follow instructions in the next section to check inventory online.
X
Checking online In advance:
- Upgrades on VS pull from the same inventory as award bookings. Upgrading to Upper Class requires G class inventory, upgrading to Premium Economy requires P class inventory. Note these are Virgin fare classes that will not display on delta.com. Delta's G and P fare classes are different and should not be considered for this purpose. Only a subset of G class inventory (and presumably also of P class inventory) is available for upgrades, so merely finding G availability via the Delta or Virgin websites, or via ExpertFlyer or other sources, does not necessarily mean an upgrade will be available. Unfortunately there is no public data source that can be used to double-check what Delta agents tell you about availability.
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At the Airport Day of Depature:
How do I request the upgrade?
What should I see if/when my upgrade is correctly processed?
Need more information on reticketing, seat selection, etc.
How much do upgrades cost?
Reports of upgrade costs are as follows (current as of May 2018):
- US<>UK, PE>UC = 25k RDM each way
- US<>UK, Y>UC = ???? each way
- US<>UK, Y>PE = ???? each way
When going from Y to PE/UC, you may need to pay the UK luxury tax (in USD or GBP) for flights exiting the UK.
When going from PE to UC, the luxury tax should not apply as it has already been charged on the PE fare.
A note about earning miles
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDMs/MQMs/MQDs based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.
What flights are eligible to be upgraded?
As relevant to this thread, original booking must be:
- DL ticketed (006 stock)
- DL marketed (DL flight #)
- VS operated
NOTE ON MIXED CABIN BOOKINGS: If you are booked in coach for a domestic portion on Delta and then connecting to a VS Premium Economy segment, and trying to upgrade only the VS PE segment with DL miles, the upgrade request may be rejected by Virgin when the DL agent attempt to process it. Ask to be transferred to the international reissue desk. Explain that they will need to remove the domestic coach portion of your flight, then process the upgrade, and then reattach the domestic Y portion. VS will accept the upgrade only when the coach segment has been removed, and this all needs to be done manually by Delta.
How do I know mileage upgrade space is available?
You can either call Delta and ask the agent to check or check online. If you are going to call, see note below about how to explain this to the phone agent. Or, follow instructions in the next section to check inventory online.
X
Checking online In advance:
- Upgrades on VS pull from the same inventory as award bookings. Upgrading to Upper Class requires G class inventory, upgrading to Premium Economy requires P class inventory. Note these are Virgin fare classes that will not display on delta.com. Delta's G and P fare classes are different and should not be considered for this purpose. Only a subset of G class inventory (and presumably also of P class inventory) is available for upgrades, so merely finding G availability via the Delta or Virgin websites, or via ExpertFlyer or other sources, does not necessarily mean an upgrade will be available. Unfortunately there is no public data source that can be used to double-check what Delta agents tell you about availability.
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- Waitlisting is not available for mileage upgrades on Virgin Atlantic or any other partner flights.
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At the Airport Day of Depature:
- VS regularly offers DOD upgrades at the airport.
- Upgrades are available for cash (generally not the best value at ~$800 one way) or VS miles (same # miles as advance upgrades).
- DOD upgrades using miles can only be done with VS miles, not Delta Sky Miles.
- VS miles can be transferred from Amex MR. Transfer is usually instantaneous if you have linked your MR/VS accounts in advance, but as always Amex does not guarantee this so there is some risk involved in relying on the transfer while at the airport.
How do I request the upgrade?
- You'll need to call Delta. Be prepared to spend some time and persistence, and HUCA if necessary. Know that agents are likely to be confused about this, so be patient and call when you have time for them to research this and possibly speak with a supervisor.
- Consider saying something along these lines to the phone agent to help clue them in that this may be something they need to look up or get help with: "I am calling to upgrade, using Sky Miles, my Virgin Atlantic flight that I booked through Delta. I understand that this is a newer benefit that is now available through the Delta/Virgin Atlantic join-venture. I know from previously calling that this is not something all agents do regularly, so thanks so much for helping me figure this out."
- Remind the agent to check the VS flight # (not DL #) for upgrade space. Many agents may tell you you are already in a premium cabin if you're booked in VS PE, without realizing that DL's G class is not the same as VS's G class. Some may also insist that it is not possible to upgrade a VS flight with Sky Miles (it was not possible before July 2017). Be polite, but ask for a supervisor.
- Agents seem to find the correct instructions about all this when they look up the DL/VS joint venture notes in whatever system they use.
- Waitlisting is not available for mileage upgrades on Virgin Atlantic or any other partner flights.
What should I see if/when my upgrade is correctly processed?
- Your upgraded flight will now be a VS-marketed flight #.
- You will be rebooked into the appropriate VS fare class.
Need more information on reticketing, seat selection, etc.
How much do upgrades cost?
Reports of upgrade costs are as follows (current as of May 2018):
- US<>UK, PE>UC = 25k RDM each way
- US<>UK, Y>UC = ???? each way
- US<>UK, Y>PE = ???? each way
When going from Y to PE/UC, you may need to pay the UK luxury tax (in USD or GBP) for flights exiting the UK.
When going from PE to UC, the luxury tax should not apply as it has already been charged on the PE fare.
A note about earning miles
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDMs/MQMs/MQDs based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.
Definitive Thread: Use Sky Miles to upgrade on VS
Aug 25, 2019, 1:34 pm
#181
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 894
What class are you currently book in and what class are you trying to upgrade into?
G class needs to be available on virgin, not on DL, to upgrade a Premium Economy seat to a Upper Class seat. If the Virgin website is not showing a seat available for an award ticket (mileage) in the class you want to upgrade into, then there is not inventory available.
The G class that you are seeing on Delta is a delta fare class for Premium Economy, which is not the same thing as Virgin's G class which is their fare bucket for Upper Class mileage tickets. Does that help?
G class needs to be available on virgin, not on DL, to upgrade a Premium Economy seat to a Upper Class seat. If the Virgin website is not showing a seat available for an award ticket (mileage) in the class you want to upgrade into, then there is not inventory available.
The G class that you are seeing on Delta is a delta fare class for Premium Economy, which is not the same thing as Virgin's G class which is their fare bucket for Upper Class mileage tickets. Does that help?
The G class I am looking at is an award ticket for upper class on DL.com. I searched for the flight and date I am interested in and switched it to "miles" as the payment type. See below.
Aug 25, 2019, 2:37 pm
#182
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: PBI
Programs: DL DM 2.4MM
Posts: 300
Yes, that indicates it's available. I also checked on EF and it was reflecting it available as well.
Aug 25, 2019, 2:41 pm
#183
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 894
Sep 16, 2019, 11:51 am
#184
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Boston, London
Programs: BA GGL/GfL
Posts: 321
Quick update on this thread, which is invaluable to an infrequent DL/VS flyer like me. I had a mixed cash VS PE/DL C+ ticket booked through Delta. After the posts here about trying to find a good agent to deal with a miles PE-UC upgrade request (and having no DL status) I used the messenger function on the website to chat to an agent. 15 mins later, all set, despite his initial look saying that there was no availability (there were 3 miles seats showing at the time on the VS website), he came back and said it was available, waited while I transferred in miles from Amex and completed the reservation.
Very happy with that experience and still 25k one way UK-US for PE-UC. Thought I'd give back by reporting in!
Very happy with that experience and still 25k one way UK-US for PE-UC. Thought I'd give back by reporting in!
Oct 16, 2019, 6:06 pm
#186
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, 1MM
Posts: 3,784
Oct 17, 2019, 9:41 pm
#188
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 894
question about these upgrade fares. I know they book into G which is viewed as an award class. what is the SOP for IRROPS or other changes to the itin? for example, if I need to make changes to my travel. I know that SDC isn't available for intl trips, but let's say I miss my flight and need to be re-accommodated. do I get moved into J or do I get moved into the fare class of the original ticket
Oct 17, 2019, 10:06 pm
#189
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,096
question about these upgrade fares. I know they book into G which is viewed as an award class. what is the SOP for IRROPS or other changes to the itin? for example, if I need to make changes to my travel. I know that SDC isn't available for intl trips, but let's say I miss my flight and need to be re-accommodated. do I get moved into J or do I get moved into the fare class of the original ticket
Oct 18, 2019, 6:31 am
#190
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Covington, KY
Posts: 28
A note about earning miles
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDM/MQM/MQD based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDM/MQM/MQD based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.
Oct 19, 2019, 10:49 am
#192
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,096
Jan 16, 2020, 3:37 pm
#193
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1
Fare Changes for 2020?
Anybody here knows if the award tickets for upgrades are now different from purchase award tickets? I see availability on both Delta and Virgin to purchase with miles, but the DL people insist that availability there doesn't mean availability for upgrade, I don't know if something changed this year...
Sep 11, 2020, 3:03 pm
#194
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: SQ Gold, UA Silver, DL Plat, AS MVP, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 76
Anybody here knows if the award tickets for upgrades are now different from purchase award tickets? I see availability on both Delta and Virgin to purchase with miles, but the DL people insist that availability there doesn't mean availability for upgrade, I don't know if something changed this year...
Sep 14, 2020, 8:47 am
#195
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,055
It looks like the rules may indeed have changed on Virgin Atlantic upgrades, but it's not clear how they now work. The relevant language now says:
"Valid on Delta-marketed, Virgin Atlantic-operated flights for use globally on published Economy Cabin fares booked in W, S, Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V class to Upper Class."
Whereas before the last part of that sentence specified fare class G, like how the KLM section still specifies fare class Z:
"Tickets. For travel on KLM-operated, Delta-marketed flights this certificate may be used to upgrade on published fares booked in Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V class and all fare classes upgrade into Z class."
So I guess potentially upgrade availability is now some secret fare class on VS?
Since VS is now on Deltamatic and has generally aligned a lot of their systems and processes with Delta, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some special fare bucket like Delta's OY now being used for upgrades that is different from award availability (just as Delta's own upgrade and award buckets have always been different, and in line with some recent data points that VS is following Delta into variable award pricing land), and it's entirely possible that with Delta's guidance Virgin is now taking the approach of not making data about that award bucket available through EF or other public channels.
In which case it will be impossible to verify whether Delta agents know what they're doing or not when they tell us there's no upgrade space on VS -- which is awfully frustrating since in cases where EF data is available as a check, it's been demonstrated that Delta agents very often don't know what they're doing when it comes to partner upgrade rules.
The one tiny silver lining hope is that if VS did indeed change its approach to be more like Delta's, then perhaps it is now set up in a way that's more familiar for Delta agents to understand and thus the issue of inaccurate information may go away. But I personally wouldn't waste my time trying to use GUCs on VS at this point. If VS is following in Delta's footsteps, that would also suggest they may have taken on DL's habit of only making upgrade space available relatively close to departure, so the one instance where it might be worth calling to ask is if you are within a month or so of departure and the UC cabin on your VS flight looks fairly empty. (The T&Cs also still say that VS upgrade requests can't be waitlisted, which is less consistent with the idea that VS has aligned their systems and processes with DL.)
"Valid on Delta-marketed, Virgin Atlantic-operated flights for use globally on published Economy Cabin fares booked in W, S, Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V class to Upper Class."
Whereas before the last part of that sentence specified fare class G, like how the KLM section still specifies fare class Z:
"Tickets. For travel on KLM-operated, Delta-marketed flights this certificate may be used to upgrade on published fares booked in Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V class and all fare classes upgrade into Z class."
So I guess potentially upgrade availability is now some secret fare class on VS?
Since VS is now on Deltamatic and has generally aligned a lot of their systems and processes with Delta, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some special fare bucket like Delta's OY now being used for upgrades that is different from award availability (just as Delta's own upgrade and award buckets have always been different, and in line with some recent data points that VS is following Delta into variable award pricing land), and it's entirely possible that with Delta's guidance Virgin is now taking the approach of not making data about that award bucket available through EF or other public channels.
In which case it will be impossible to verify whether Delta agents know what they're doing or not when they tell us there's no upgrade space on VS -- which is awfully frustrating since in cases where EF data is available as a check, it's been demonstrated that Delta agents very often don't know what they're doing when it comes to partner upgrade rules.
The one tiny silver lining hope is that if VS did indeed change its approach to be more like Delta's, then perhaps it is now set up in a way that's more familiar for Delta agents to understand and thus the issue of inaccurate information may go away. But I personally wouldn't waste my time trying to use GUCs on VS at this point. If VS is following in Delta's footsteps, that would also suggest they may have taken on DL's habit of only making upgrade space available relatively close to departure, so the one instance where it might be worth calling to ask is if you are within a month or so of departure and the UC cabin on your VS flight looks fairly empty. (The T&Cs also still say that VS upgrade requests can't be waitlisted, which is less consistent with the idea that VS has aligned their systems and processes with DL.)