May 27, 18, 12:36 pm
Last edit by: audidudi
DRAFT WIKI: I've started this on May 27, 2018 as a first pass, but need to pull more info from the rest of the thread. Feel free to add!
What flights are eligible to be upgraded?
As relevant to this thread, original booking must be:
- DL ticketed (006 stock)
- DL marketed (DL flight #)
- VS operated
NOTE ON MIXED CABIN BOOKINGS: If you are booked in coach for a domestic portion on Delta and then connecting to a VS Premium Economy segment, and trying to upgrade only the VS PE segment with DL miles, the upgrade request may be rejected by Virgin when the DL agent attempt to process it. Ask to be transferred to the international reissue desk. Explain that they will need to remove the domestic coach portion of your flight, then process the upgrade, and then reattach the domestic Y portion. VS will accept the upgrade only when the coach segment has been removed, and this all needs to be done manually by Delta.
How do I know mileage upgrade space is available?
You can either call Delta and ask the agent to check or check online. If you are going to call, see note below about how to explain this to the phone agent. Or, follow instructions in the next section to check inventory online.
X
Checking online In advance:
- Upgrades on VS pull from the same inventory as award bookings. Upgrading to Upper Class requires G class inventory, upgrading to Premium Economy requires P class inventory. Note these are Virgin fare classes that will not display on delta.com. Delta's G and P fare classes are different and should not be considered for this purpose. Only a subset of G class inventory (and presumably also of P class inventory) is available for upgrades, so merely finding G availability via the Delta or Virgin websites, or via ExpertFlyer or other sources, does not necessarily mean an upgrade will be available. Unfortunately there is no public data source that can be used to double-check what Delta agents tell you about availability.
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At the Airport Day of Depature:
How do I request the upgrade?
What should I see if/when my upgrade is correctly processed?
Need more information on reticketing, seat selection, etc.
How much do upgrades cost?
Reports of upgrade costs are as follows (current as of May 2018):
- US<>UK, PE>UC = 25k RDM each way
- US<>UK, Y>UC = ???? each way
- US<>UK, Y>PE = ???? each way
When going from Y to PE/UC, you may need to pay the UK luxury tax (in USD or GBP) for flights exiting the UK.
When going from PE to UC, the luxury tax should not apply as it has already been charged on the PE fare.
A note about earning miles
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDMs/MQMs/MQDs based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.
What flights are eligible to be upgraded?
As relevant to this thread, original booking must be:
- DL ticketed (006 stock)
- DL marketed (DL flight #)
- VS operated
NOTE ON MIXED CABIN BOOKINGS: If you are booked in coach for a domestic portion on Delta and then connecting to a VS Premium Economy segment, and trying to upgrade only the VS PE segment with DL miles, the upgrade request may be rejected by Virgin when the DL agent attempt to process it. Ask to be transferred to the international reissue desk. Explain that they will need to remove the domestic coach portion of your flight, then process the upgrade, and then reattach the domestic Y portion. VS will accept the upgrade only when the coach segment has been removed, and this all needs to be done manually by Delta.
How do I know mileage upgrade space is available?
You can either call Delta and ask the agent to check or check online. If you are going to call, see note below about how to explain this to the phone agent. Or, follow instructions in the next section to check inventory online.
X
Checking online In advance:
- Upgrades on VS pull from the same inventory as award bookings. Upgrading to Upper Class requires G class inventory, upgrading to Premium Economy requires P class inventory. Note these are Virgin fare classes that will not display on delta.com. Delta's G and P fare classes are different and should not be considered for this purpose. Only a subset of G class inventory (and presumably also of P class inventory) is available for upgrades, so merely finding G availability via the Delta or Virgin websites, or via ExpertFlyer or other sources, does not necessarily mean an upgrade will be available. Unfortunately there is no public data source that can be used to double-check what Delta agents tell you about availability.
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- Waitlisting is not available for mileage upgrades on Virgin Atlantic or any other partner flights.
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At the Airport Day of Depature:
- VS regularly offers DOD upgrades at the airport.
- Upgrades are available for cash (generally not the best value at ~$800 one way) or VS miles (same # miles as advance upgrades).
- DOD upgrades using miles can only be done with VS miles, not Delta Sky Miles.
- VS miles can be transferred from Amex MR. Transfer is usually instantaneous if you have linked your MR/VS accounts in advance, but as always Amex does not guarantee this so there is some risk involved in relying on the transfer while at the airport.
How do I request the upgrade?
- You'll need to call Delta. Be prepared to spend some time and persistence, and HUCA if necessary. Know that agents are likely to be confused about this, so be patient and call when you have time for them to research this and possibly speak with a supervisor.
- Consider saying something along these lines to the phone agent to help clue them in that this may be something they need to look up or get help with: "I am calling to upgrade, using Sky Miles, my Virgin Atlantic flight that I booked through Delta. I understand that this is a newer benefit that is now available through the Delta/Virgin Atlantic join-venture. I know from previously calling that this is not something all agents do regularly, so thanks so much for helping me figure this out."
- Remind the agent to check the VS flight # (not DL #) for upgrade space. Many agents may tell you you are already in a premium cabin if you're booked in VS PE, without realizing that DL's G class is not the same as VS's G class. Some may also insist that it is not possible to upgrade a VS flight with Sky Miles (it was not possible before July 2017). Be polite, but ask for a supervisor.
- Agents seem to find the correct instructions about all this when they look up the DL/VS joint venture notes in whatever system they use.
- Waitlisting is not available for mileage upgrades on Virgin Atlantic or any other partner flights.
What should I see if/when my upgrade is correctly processed?
- Your upgraded flight will now be a VS-marketed flight #.
- You will be rebooked into the appropriate VS fare class.
Need more information on reticketing, seat selection, etc.
How much do upgrades cost?
Reports of upgrade costs are as follows (current as of May 2018):
- US<>UK, PE>UC = 25k RDM each way
- US<>UK, Y>UC = ???? each way
- US<>UK, Y>PE = ???? each way
When going from Y to PE/UC, you may need to pay the UK luxury tax (in USD or GBP) for flights exiting the UK.
When going from PE to UC, the luxury tax should not apply as it has already been charged on the PE fare.
A note about earning miles
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDMs/MQMs/MQDs based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.
Definitive Thread: Use Sky Miles to upgrade on VS
Nov 2, 18, 9:20 am
#106
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,145
Hey, maybe someone can give me some guidance here. I've called a few times to try to upgrade JFKLHR from Delta G to Virgin G.
-Agents sees space, confirms pricing of 25K
-Delta shows award space, Virgin shows award space, Experflyer shows award space
-Delta tries to grab it and it comes back sell denied. They also told me they tried to long sell it and that didn't work.
What's going on here? This ticket was originally Delta X upgraded to G on the JFKLHR segment, but I'm told this is not a problem. I know Virgin's lowest Premium Economy fare can no longer be upgraded to Upper Class. Is it possible this Delta G is mapping over to Vrigin's lowest and they are denying the upgrade?
-Agents sees space, confirms pricing of 25K
-Delta shows award space, Virgin shows award space, Experflyer shows award space
-Delta tries to grab it and it comes back sell denied. They also told me they tried to long sell it and that didn't work.
What's going on here? This ticket was originally Delta X upgraded to G on the JFKLHR segment, but I'm told this is not a problem. I know Virgin's lowest Premium Economy fare can no longer be upgraded to Upper Class. Is it possible this Delta G is mapping over to Vrigin's lowest and they are denying the upgrade?
Nov 2, 18, 12:48 pm
#107
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: DL PM/MM, Hilton Silver, SPG+, Hertz PC
Posts: 7,898
don't know why they don't implement a waitlist. It could be one that does not carry to day of departure, to leave things as they are now, but it would save us the time to call repeatedly and DL the time to answer.
Nov 3, 18, 1:08 pm
#108
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,145
Hey, maybe someone can give me some guidance here. I've called a few times to try to upgrade JFKLHR from Delta G to Virgin G.
-Agents sees space, confirms pricing of 25K
-Delta shows award space, Virgin shows award space, Experflyer shows award space
-Delta tries to grab it and it comes back sell denied. They also told me they tried to long sell it and that didn't work.
What's going on here? This ticket was originally Delta X upgraded to G on the JFKLHR segment, but I'm told this is not a problem. I know Virgin's lowest Premium Economy fare can no longer be upgraded to Upper Class. Is it possible this Delta G is mapping over to Vrigin's lowest and they are denying the upgrade?
-Agents sees space, confirms pricing of 25K
-Delta shows award space, Virgin shows award space, Experflyer shows award space
-Delta tries to grab it and it comes back sell denied. They also told me they tried to long sell it and that didn't work.
What's going on here? This ticket was originally Delta X upgraded to G on the JFKLHR segment, but I'm told this is not a problem. I know Virgin's lowest Premium Economy fare can no longer be upgraded to Upper Class. Is it possible this Delta G is mapping over to Vrigin's lowest and they are denying the upgrade?
My ticket was BOS-JFK in DL Y (X fare), then JFK-LHR in Virgin PE, then JFK-BOS in Virgin PE. As we know, the agents had to sell the upgrade into the Virgin flight number, not the Delta flight number, but they also had delete out my BOSJFK flight from the record, get the upgrade, and then put the BOSJFK back. The X fare on BOSJFK was causing Virgin to reject the upgrade from PE to UC because it still found X fares on the itinerary (so that the upgrade was ineligible). Yay for this DL agent who knew that! I'm going to write in to praise her.
Anyway, 25K pp upgrade JFKLHR on a Delta G fare!
Nov 3, 18, 8:26 pm
#109
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mostly living in the basement
Programs: Newly minted free agent; MR LT(!)TE, HH SE, BA BECM, DL MM, UA PS, 2V Fanboi, CBP GE
Posts: 5,008
Thanks for posting this, it's always good to get more info about opaque processes like these. You might want to add your info to the wiki on this thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...pgrade-vs.html
Nov 3, 18, 11:56 pm
#110
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ZRH / SEA, DL PM
Posts: 1,100
Congrats, but I am not sure if you flew VS business class before. After flying VS a few times this year (a mix of PE and J), I would never pay for the upgrade. VS has one of the most uncomfortable and exposed seats in J.
PE, on thenother hand, is wonderful and a on short TATL like JFK-LHR I would just stick to PE -- there is not much time to sleep and for sitting PE is more comfortable and PE food is just fine.
Save your miles and $.
PE, on thenother hand, is wonderful and a on short TATL like JFK-LHR I would just stick to PE -- there is not much time to sleep and for sitting PE is more comfortable and PE food is just fine.
Save your miles and $.
Nov 4, 18, 4:59 am
#111
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,717
Congrats, but I am not sure if you flew VS business class before. After flying VS a few times this year (a mix of PE and J), I would never pay for the upgrade. VS has one of the most uncomfortable and exposed seats in J.
PE, on thenother hand, is wonderful and a on short TATL like JFK-LHR I would just stick to PE -- there is not much time to sleep and for sitting PE is more comfortable and PE food is just fine.
Save your miles and $.
PE, on thenother hand, is wonderful and a on short TATL like JFK-LHR I would just stick to PE -- there is not much time to sleep and for sitting PE is more comfortable and PE food is just fine.
Save your miles and $.
And if someone has no status and the UG now provides access to Revivals, and perhaps they have a glut of miles to spend...there are certainly worse ways to spend one's miles.
100% agree on just sticking in PE going westbound, though.
Nov 4, 18, 6:01 am
#112
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,145
Yup, you both are correct - and this the daytime flight to London too, not the overnight. But Ive got a bunch of DL miles and I earn them pretty fast and the last time I flew VS was BOSLHR and we didnt have time for the bar. I figured it would be fun to compare redeye UC to daytime UC. On the way back Im in a group of 5 so we all need to sit in the same cabin anyway.
Nov 5, 18, 11:31 pm
#114
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,646
Call the 800 number next time - I think Skype does not charge for those calls.
Nov 6, 18, 4:30 am
#115
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, 1MM
Posts: 3,727
Sitting right now in the LHR Clubhouse before departure. I can report that Delta agents were unable to find upgrade availability from PE to UC on either JFK-LHR two weeks ago or LHR-JFK today. Today there was an airport upgrade offer of 800, which I declined.
Nov 6, 18, 6:36 am
#116
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,717
Nov 6, 18, 7:39 am
#117
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.
Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion
Posts: 20,202
Last week I flew SEA-LHR using this path to get an upgrade
I thought it was a good value though I would have also been ok in my PE seat
I paid 25k SM for my upgrade about 80 days in advance. The flight did show as award available on DL when I secured the upgrades.
My PE ticket SMF-LHR//PRG-SMF was $1400. I also upgraded the CDG-LAX component of the return for $475 at OLCI.
I thought it was a good value though I would have also been ok in my PE seat
I paid 25k SM for my upgrade about 80 days in advance. The flight did show as award available on DL when I secured the upgrades.
My PE ticket SMF-LHR//PRG-SMF was $1400. I also upgraded the CDG-LAX component of the return for $475 at OLCI.
Nov 24, 18, 7:31 pm
#118
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL 3 MM/DM, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec Elite
Posts: 3,965
I and two colleagues have done the PE-to-Upper Class upgrade, and boy is getting this done hugely problematic.
Here are our three data points:
Person A: Booked JFK-LHR in DL G on VS flight, called in when EF showed availability, talked the agent through it, got the upgrade processed and reticketed into VS G with a VS flight number. 25,000 miles for the upgrade. Post-flight, MQMs didn't post as expected. Wrote in via the web form and bingo, MQMs posted -- but only at 100% MQMs, instead of the 150% that should credit for DL G inventory. Wrote back and it was corrected immediately, 150% MQM credit posted.
Person B: Same as above on the booking end. Once again, MQMs didn't post. Wrote in via web form and got no response. Zero. Wrote back, got them posted. But only at 100% MQMs. Responded to the e-mail granting the credit asking for the correct 150% MQMs to post, got no response. Sent in a new inquiry, got a prompt response that VS G was not eligible for 150% MQM. Responded to that e-mail to point out that the original ticket was DL G inventory, not VS G, and that DL G should credit 150%. Got no response to that follow-up. Finally, this week faxed in full supporting documentation to the SkyMiles center, showing original receipt booked with a DL flight number in DL G inventory, asking once again for the 150% MQM credit. Got a prompt e-mail response indicating that "As per Virgin Atlantic mileage accrual chart, class of service "G" is not listed in the chart, hence the flight is eligible to earn 100% MQMs." Pointed to Delta.com/partnerairlines to show "the mileage credit restrictions that apply for partner airlines." The reply to this e-mail, pointing out that it was a DL-marketed ticket that was purchased, has not yet been answered.
Person C: Booked RT LHR-ATL-LHR in DL G, confirmed the upgrade by talking the agent through it, got the ticket reissued in VS G, charged 25,000 SkyMiles for the upgrade. Upgraded ticket was issued. Person C has not flown the itinerary yet, but called in recently to pay the luxury tax since the departure was from LHR and it had not been collected during the initial transaction. Agent on the phone was totally flummoxed by the upgrade and called VS. Came back on the phone to say that 25,000 miles was not the correct amount for the upgrade. Person C tried to just hang up and call back, but the agent told him that if he didn't complete the transaction then, the entire reservation (which was several weeks old) would be canceled. The agent basically extorted the flyer, who is Diamond, into reissuing the ticket then with the "correct" mileage for the upgrade, which he maintained was 65,000 each way. The passenger gave up and allowed him to deduct the ridiculous number of miles. I am sure when the passenger flies, the MQMs won't post and another fight will be required.
So, while doing this upgrade on VS is a great benefit, the systems just aren't cut out to handle it at all, and the agents are ill-trained. Those who answer the e-mail inquiries are generally inept.
The next step for Person B is a phone call to tie up an agent on the phone for however long it takes to fix it, and if that fails, a snail mail letter to the general offices.
You honestly couldn't make some of this stuff up.
Here are our three data points:
Person A: Booked JFK-LHR in DL G on VS flight, called in when EF showed availability, talked the agent through it, got the upgrade processed and reticketed into VS G with a VS flight number. 25,000 miles for the upgrade. Post-flight, MQMs didn't post as expected. Wrote in via the web form and bingo, MQMs posted -- but only at 100% MQMs, instead of the 150% that should credit for DL G inventory. Wrote back and it was corrected immediately, 150% MQM credit posted.
Person B: Same as above on the booking end. Once again, MQMs didn't post. Wrote in via web form and got no response. Zero. Wrote back, got them posted. But only at 100% MQMs. Responded to the e-mail granting the credit asking for the correct 150% MQMs to post, got no response. Sent in a new inquiry, got a prompt response that VS G was not eligible for 150% MQM. Responded to that e-mail to point out that the original ticket was DL G inventory, not VS G, and that DL G should credit 150%. Got no response to that follow-up. Finally, this week faxed in full supporting documentation to the SkyMiles center, showing original receipt booked with a DL flight number in DL G inventory, asking once again for the 150% MQM credit. Got a prompt e-mail response indicating that "As per Virgin Atlantic mileage accrual chart, class of service "G" is not listed in the chart, hence the flight is eligible to earn 100% MQMs." Pointed to Delta.com/partnerairlines to show "the mileage credit restrictions that apply for partner airlines." The reply to this e-mail, pointing out that it was a DL-marketed ticket that was purchased, has not yet been answered.
Person C: Booked RT LHR-ATL-LHR in DL G, confirmed the upgrade by talking the agent through it, got the ticket reissued in VS G, charged 25,000 SkyMiles for the upgrade. Upgraded ticket was issued. Person C has not flown the itinerary yet, but called in recently to pay the luxury tax since the departure was from LHR and it had not been collected during the initial transaction. Agent on the phone was totally flummoxed by the upgrade and called VS. Came back on the phone to say that 25,000 miles was not the correct amount for the upgrade. Person C tried to just hang up and call back, but the agent told him that if he didn't complete the transaction then, the entire reservation (which was several weeks old) would be canceled. The agent basically extorted the flyer, who is Diamond, into reissuing the ticket then with the "correct" mileage for the upgrade, which he maintained was 65,000 each way. The passenger gave up and allowed him to deduct the ridiculous number of miles. I am sure when the passenger flies, the MQMs won't post and another fight will be required.
So, while doing this upgrade on VS is a great benefit, the systems just aren't cut out to handle it at all, and the agents are ill-trained. Those who answer the e-mail inquiries are generally inept.
The next step for Person B is a phone call to tie up an agent on the phone for however long it takes to fix it, and if that fails, a snail mail letter to the general offices.
You honestly couldn't make some of this stuff up.
Nov 24, 18, 7:38 pm
#119
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,386
Person C tried to just hang up and call back, but the agent told him that if he didn't complete the transaction then, the entire reservation (which was several weeks old) would be canceled. The agent basically extorted the flyer, who is Diamond, into reissuing the ticket then with the "correct" mileage for the upgrade, which he maintained was 65,000 each way. The passenger gave up and allowed him to deduct the ridiculous number of miles. I am sure when the passenger flies, the MQMs won't post and another fight will be required.
Edited to add: when I booked a YS PE ticket I once had a problem where Delta had somehow accidentally booked it as a coach ticket on their end even though on VS I was showing as a PE customer (and had paid a PE cash G fare). Person C's ticket may have been improperly ticketed, but this will not take some real digging to get to the bottom of this since it appears to have already been reticketed. However, with 80K miles on the line, it's worth the effort to fix it.
Last edited by jdrtravel; Nov 24, 18 at 7:51 pm
Nov 24, 18, 7:57 pm
#120
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL 3 MM/DM, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec Elite
Posts: 3,965
Unfortunately, Person C in my report above doesn't value miles like the rest of us do, but I agree that this should be something straightforward to sort out.
