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Definitive Thread: Use Sky Miles to upgrade on VS

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Old May 27, 2018, 12:36 pm
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Last edit by: audidudi
DRAFT WIKI: I've started this on May 27, 2018 as a first pass, but need to pull more info from the rest of the thread. Feel free to add!

What flights are eligible to be upgraded?
As relevant to this thread, original booking must be:
- DL ticketed (006 stock)
- DL marketed (DL flight #)
- VS operated

NOTE ON MIXED CABIN BOOKINGS: If you are booked in coach for a domestic portion on Delta and then connecting to a VS Premium Economy segment, and trying to upgrade only the VS PE segment with DL miles, the upgrade request may be rejected by Virgin when the DL agent attempt to process it. Ask to be transferred to the international reissue desk. Explain that they will need to remove the domestic coach portion of your flight, then process the upgrade, and then reattach the domestic Y portion. VS will accept the upgrade only when the coach segment has been removed, and this all needs to be done manually by Delta.

How do I know mileage upgrade space is available?
You can either call Delta and ask the agent to check or check online. If you are going to call, see note below about how to explain this to the phone agent. Or, follow instructions in the next section to check inventory online.

X
Checking online In advance:
- Upgrades on VS pull from the same inventory as award bookings. Upgrading to Upper Class requires G class inventory, upgrading to Premium Economy requires P class inventory. Note these are Virgin fare classes that will not display on delta.com. Delta's G and P fare classes are different and should not be considered for this purpose. Only a subset of G class inventory (and presumably also of P class inventory) is available for upgrades, so merely finding G availability via the Delta or Virgin websites, or via ExpertFlyer or other sources, does not necessarily mean an upgrade will be available. Unfortunately there is no public data source that can be used to double-check what Delta agents tell you about availability.
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  • Waitlisting is not available for mileage upgrades on Virgin Atlantic or any other partner flights.
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At the Airport Day of Depature:
  • VS regularly offers DOD upgrades at the airport.
  • Upgrades are available for cash (generally not the best value at ~$800 one way) or VS miles (same # miles as advance upgrades).
  • DOD upgrades using miles can only be done with VS miles, not Delta Sky Miles.
  • VS miles can be transferred from Amex MR. Transfer is usually instantaneous if you have linked your MR/VS accounts in advance, but as always Amex does not guarantee this so there is some risk involved in relying on the transfer while at the airport.

How do I request the upgrade?
  • You'll need to call Delta. Be prepared to spend some time and persistence, and HUCA if necessary. Know that agents are likely to be confused about this, so be patient and call when you have time for them to research this and possibly speak with a supervisor.
    • Consider saying something along these lines to the phone agent to help clue them in that this may be something they need to look up or get help with: "I am calling to upgrade, using Sky Miles, my Virgin Atlantic flight that I booked through Delta. I understand that this is a newer benefit that is now available through the Delta/Virgin Atlantic join-venture. I know from previously calling that this is not something all agents do regularly, so thanks so much for helping me figure this out."
    • Remind the agent to check the VS flight # (not DL #) for upgrade space. Many agents may tell you you are already in a premium cabin if you're booked in VS PE, without realizing that DL's G class is not the same as VS's G class. Some may also insist that it is not possible to upgrade a VS flight with Sky Miles (it was not possible before July 2017). Be polite, but ask for a supervisor.
    • Agents seem to find the correct instructions about all this when they look up the DL/VS joint venture notes in whatever system they use.
  • Waitlisting is not available for mileage upgrades on Virgin Atlantic or any other partner flights.

What should I see if/when my upgrade is correctly processed?
  • Your upgraded flight will now be a VS-marketed flight #.
  • You will be rebooked into the appropriate VS fare class.

Need more information on reticketing, seat selection, etc.

How much do upgrades cost?
Reports of upgrade costs are as follows (current as of May 2018):
- US<>UK, PE>UC = 25k RDM each way
- US<>UK, Y>UC = ???? each way
- US<>UK, Y>PE = ???? each way
When going from Y to PE/UC, you may need to pay the UK luxury tax (in USD or GBP) for flights exiting the UK.
When going from PE to UC, the luxury tax should not apply as it has already been charged on the PE fare.



A note about earning miles
Your upgraded ticket should still earn DL RDMs/MQMs/MQDs based on the originally purchased fare. However, the systems regularly get confused because the rebooked ticket will be identified as VS award inventory, ineligible for mileage earnings.
Keep your original (non-upgraded) receipt and monitor your miles earnings carefully. Calls or written requests via DL.com comments/complaints will result in proper mileage earnings being applied, but you may need to be persistent.
Need information about crediting flights to VS or other programs.



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Definitive Thread: Use Sky Miles to upgrade on VS

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Old Jul 19, 2022, 8:13 pm
  #226  
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Originally Posted by micstatic
Hey guys. Booked via delta. Flight operated by virgin. Delta and virgin staff have told me I cannot upgrade to upper class with skymiles. Is this true?
booked currently in premium
As long as you booked a revenue Premium Select DL fare (P/A/G fare classes), Virgin metal should be potentially upgradeable with a MUA. DL Y/B/M/H/Q/K economy class fares on VS metal are also supposedly upgradable via MUA. T&C's are on this page (you need to click on Show Terms & Conditions link under Upgrade with Miles After Booking) -- https://www.delta.com/us/en/skymiles...rades-and-more

There's an existing thread on this topic -- Definitive Thread: Use Sky Miles to upgrade on VS
Looks like VS Upper Class award inventory (G class) is required to process upgrade. If it requires G inventory released to DL for Skymiles redemptions, I wouldn't get my hopes up as VS seems to greatly limit inventory in UC cabin that is released to DL.

Last edited by xliioper; Jul 19, 2022 at 8:26 pm
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Old Jul 19, 2022, 8:31 pm
  #227  
 
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They said this

since this flight is operated by Delta Codeshare partner Virgin Atlantic, we are unable to sell you an upgrade. Seat inventory is handled by the operating airline.

I really apologize, as much as I wanted to help you with it, we do not have an access to it. Would there be anything else?
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Old Jul 19, 2022, 9:53 pm
  #228  
 
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Originally Posted by micstatic
They said this

since this flight is operated by Delta Codeshare partner Virgin Atlantic, we are unable to sell you an upgrade. Seat inventory is handled by the operating airline.

I really apologize, as much as I wanted to help you with it, we do not have an access to it. Would there be anything else?
unless something has changed, this is not true. I have definitely purchased a ticket from DL for a flight on VS and used my DL miles to upgrade to UC. I definitely called DL to coordinate as they have access to my miles. I would assume if you called VS they would tell you they have the space available but dont have access to your account

since they said "seat inventory is handled by the operating carrier" I wonder if that was their roundabout way of saying that VS hadn't made the inventory available

quick way to check, btw. VS mileage awards for UC also book into G class. if you do a dummy miles booking on their site and you see a miles seat available in UC, you SHOULD be able to use DL miles to upgrade. again, should. unless something has changed.
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Old Jul 19, 2022, 10:09 pm
  #229  
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Originally Posted by micstatic
They said this

since this flight is operated by Delta Codeshare partner Virgin Atlantic, we are unable to sell you an upgrade. Seat inventory is handled by the operating airline.

I really apologize, as much as I wanted to help you with it, we do not have an access to it. Would there be anything else?
This looks to be cut and pasted from a chat/Twitter conversation, and that communications channel currently seems to be staffed with newbie/junior agents. I would read the wiki at the top of the other thread that xliioper linked you to for background info on the process, and then call in and ask about it instead.
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 1:07 am
  #230  
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Originally Posted by micstatic
They said this

since this flight is operated by Delta Codeshare partner Virgin Atlantic, we are unable to sell you an upgrade. Seat inventory is handled by the operating airline.

I really apologize, as much as I wanted to help you with it, we do not have an access to it. Would there be anything else?
HUCA. New agents not trained
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 3:37 am
  #231  
 
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I’ve called delta a few times and virgin as well. Nobody has been able to help me. I sent in a complaint to delta on their web site. See what they say.
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 3:47 am
  #232  
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Originally Posted by micstatic
I’ve called delta a few times and virgin as well. Nobody has been able to help me. I sent in a complaint to delta on their web site. See what they say.
Have you verified there is upgrade space available? If so call and ask for the joint venture support desk. These agent deal with AF/KL/VS specifically.
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 6:58 am
  #233  
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Originally Posted by micstatic
I’ve called delta a few times and virgin as well. Nobody has been able to help me. I sent in a complaint to delta on their web site. See what they say.
It is a DL ticket and you are tying to use Skymiles; you need to call DL. Calling VS is a waste of time.

Originally Posted by flyerCO
Have you verified there is upgrade space available? If so call and ask for the joint venture support desk. These agent deal with AF/KL/VS specifically.
Yes, you need to make sure upgrade inventory is available then call DL again.
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 7:56 am
  #234  
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Originally Posted by gitismatty
unless something has changed, this is not true. I have definitely purchased a ticket from DL for a flight on VS and used my DL miles to upgrade to UC. I definitely called DL to coordinate as they have access to my miles. I would assume if you called VS they would tell you they have the space available but dont have access to your account

since they said "seat inventory is handled by the operating carrier" I wonder if that was their roundabout way of saying that VS hadn't made the inventory available

quick way to check, btw. VS mileage awards for UC also book into G class. if you do a dummy miles booking on their site and you see a miles seat available in UC, you SHOULD be able to use DL miles to upgrade. again, should. unless something has changed.
The Wiki entry indicates it is not simply G award inventory showing on VS site for award redemptions and claims it is some sort of subset that is not externally visible. Also claims that it is not the G inventory available to DL for Skymiles redemptions (which is extremely limited, so hopefully it is more plentiful than what shows on DL website).
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 8:00 am
  #235  
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It might be helpful to search here for (in the big upgrade threads in the DL forum) for successful and unsuccessful reports of GUC upgrades on VS operated flights. This might indicate very roughly how difficult it is or give useful information about patterns, although it's all anecdotal evidence.
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 8:09 am
  #236  
 
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I've flown Virgin a bunch (VS and DL operated flights). I had a meltdown about five years ago so I got to meet/speak with VS leadership, and asked about every question I could.
Ultimately this influenced me to not fly Virgin again expecting Delta/SkyMiles/SkyTeam benefits (yes, I understand this was after Delta acquired 49% of Virgin from Singapore, and prior to the additional investment in December, 2021).

In summary, everything from seat selection to upgrades is greatly/highly restricted.
You want Upper Class? Buy it from Virgin.
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 8:44 am
  #237  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
It might be helpful to search here for (in the big upgrade threads in the DL forum) for successful and unsuccessful reports of GUC upgrades on VS operated flights. This might indicate very roughly how difficult it is or give useful information about patterns, although it's all anecdotal evidence.
OP is asking about Mileage Upgrade Awards (MUAs), not GUCs. Although GUCs also upgrade into 'G' on VS metal (but not exactly clear if it is the same G inventory though for both MUAs and GUCs).
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 8:58 am
  #238  
 
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For a MUA on a delta-marketed flight, you have to have purchased a K class or higher ticket, econ or premium econ, and then a G fare has to be available. The G has to be available to Delta, not on the VS site. Virgin doesn't always release their award space to Delta these days. To search for G availability with DL, follow the advice above: search your dates for an award ticket, set the cabin to Delta One, then see if your VS flight is available. Any Upper CLass award seat sold by Delta is a G class ticket, and that's what has to be available for you to use the mileage upgrade award.

If it's available (and it almost never is), then you have to call Delta. Lots of the new agents don't know about mileage upgrade awards, and they'll think you're talking about "upgrading with miles". If you don't get someone that knows, then you can hang up and call again, or you can brave a very long wait time and ask to be transferred to someone in ticketing.
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 9:16 am
  #239  
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Originally Posted by xliioper
The Wiki entry indicates it is not simply G award inventory showing on VS site for award redemptions and claims it is some sort of subset that is not externally visible. Also claims that it is not the G inventory available to DL for Skymiles redemptions (which is extremely limited, so hopefully it is more plentiful than what shows on DL website).
For actual awards,, yes.. For MUA, straight G is all that is required. I would look via AF/KL website. If UC is available via that, flight can be upgraded.

DL can book subset of G on VS (due to sharing same computer systems) so VS nor DL website is reliable. AF/KL can only book straight G since not on same system as DL/VS.
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Old Jul 20, 2022, 10:20 am
  #240  
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Originally Posted by xliioper
OP is asking about Mileage Upgrade Awards (MUAs), not GUCs. Although GUCs also upgrade into 'G' on VS metal (but not exactly clear if it is the same G inventory though for both MUAs and GUCs).
I'm not saying it's necessarily the same inventory, but it should be related. If OP sees that VS only makes GUC upgrade space available to DL on certain flights or certain days of the week, I would focus my search on such dates and flights. This is what I mean by looking for patterns.
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