davetravels

Personally, I fly for pleasure, but, obviously, many fly for work - and some, nearly every single day! People here frequently say things like - - Diamond is worthless! But, I suggest a Diamond who is used to being Diamond to try flying without status, and you'll quickly realize all the benefits you use, that you forgot you had! Once the Diamond "mantra" becomes part of you, I would expect it would be VERY hard to lose - as I will, if this comes to fruition.

I flew next to a gentleman a few years ago, who, during our conversation I happened to mention that, that particular flight was my 100th of the year. He told me that, he had 240 flights in for the year! <He worked for a company in Georgia that was installing all the carpeting in the new JFK T4>.

Could you possibly imagine flying 240 segments in a year WITHOUT Diamond status?

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That said - - - In keeping with FlyerTalk "mantra" that we all want what works for ourselves . . . . My suggestion would be that, Delta keeps the existing program for ALL current Diamonds, and anyone newly minted into DM status after December 31, 2017 would be under the new rules!

hockeyinsider

No, it wasn't. And yes, I'm aware of that. I was merely stating my observations over three years.

That's too bad for you. I've had some grilled chicken salads and some fish (salmon, cod and red snapper) that were great and would go for $13-$25 in a restaurant.

Renes Points

Just as a FYI my sources told me when this change could be announced in September OR October.

Last time Delta made changes to the medallion qualifications, ie last time they tweaked it, came out on 9 OCT 2014.

Just more data points.

dinanm3atl

I think some like to complain to complain. IE diamond is worthless. Somis Platinum. I've never been upgraded. Etc.

Data point as a PM in ATL I had 6 upgrades in a row. My entire LGA trip starting tomorrow morning was upgraded already. So that means 8 of 9 upgraded in the last couple weeks.

There are benefits. And it's value is based on each person

JayTeaBee

The real loser here is American Express. Judging from the reactions some have posted when asking Amex about this, they are probably freaking out right now. After losing CostCo they can't afford to lose Delta, or a significant portion of the portfolio.

I wonder if there's a middle ground where DL could increase the MQD waiver to say 50k and get more $ out of American Express that way which would make up for whatever they are considering.

msglsmo

Others have mentioned this and it makes a ton of sense. Considering MQM/MQD are tired, it would make sense for the spend waiver to be tiered as well.

DiverDave

It is looking that way.

Wonder how it looks for the overall DM population.

dinanm3atl

This seems like a situation where it is so easy to make a better decision. I think most logical people would say "Yes that makes sense".

FO - 10K
GM - 20K
PM - 30K
DM - 40K? 50K?

It means it validates your long standing business partner and increases their spend requirements to net what they want.

However with that said the like PR behind this isn't going to make any sense because as has been discussed already Delta brings in billions from the SkyMiles and Credit Card program and they are going to claim giving away the status on a spend waiver isn't good business...


Likely they know.

I just don't understand why it 'matters'. Free SkyClub if you choose and some international upgrades you might not even be able to use? And some upgrades, maybe. Delta is trying to fill FC with paid flyers so it would seem having more DMs fighting for these would cause more to get upset and just pay for the seats?

jamesteroh

Am Ex will be the biggest loser. While I don't think they'll lose as many accounts as they did when Costco ended the agreement they are going to lose a lot in charges. I charge $220K a year on my cards and all but possibly $30k of that spending is going bye bye. If diamonds can reach Platinum on their own without the MQD waiver or MQM boost that spending is going away. I'm sure a lot of frequent travelers will keep the reserve card for the Skyclub access but the 1 skymile/$ spent isn't a good deal, much better returns out there.

I agree a middle ground would make sense and hopefully they will go that route. Either increase the spend like you said or do what American does and give a 50% credit.

I wonder if they will eventually hit other tiers. I think it's unfair that if I drop to a PM and have met the minimum spend on my own I'll be competing with PM's who don't fly nearly as much as me with a low MQD who received a wiaver through Am Ex.

One thing Am Ex will have going for them is Hilton is dropping their Citi partnership at the end of the year and going with Am Ex. But that card won't have nearly the membership a Delta card would. And you only need $40K in spend on the Hilton Am Ex for diamond. And I wouldn't be surprised with all the Diamonds if Hilton tries to thin that herd and eliminates the $40K spend for diamond and does a similar approach to what Hyatt does where they give you so many nights credit for $40K spend towards diamond instead of flat out giving the status.

pvn

So James, how much do you charge per year on Amex? Just a ballpark estimate would be fine.

jamesteroh

Will the GU's can be a pain to use internationally, especially since Delta took away the ability to access the inventory on EF, I have had pretty good luck if I am willing to be flexible.

The co-terminal benefit has been the other nice benefit for me. Upgrades have been harder thanks to FCM but there have been several times this year where I was the last one cleared so being a DM helped there since I would have never cleared as a PM the times I was on a low fare and there could have been other diamonds behind me.

Clear membership is also nice.

I wonder how long it will be before Delta will stop the waiver for PM or make the status harder to get. I can see a lot of PM's who fly 125K BIS miles but don't make the $15000 waiver upset they are competing with people who fly a lot less and haven't met the MQD for PM while they have.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta make changes to the PM waiver in a couple years or increase the required flying to 100K MQM's.

hockeyinsider

Delta needs to make an enhancement for every change or elimination it makes. For example, more upgrade certificates when you hit 150,000 MQMs or 175,000 MQMs -- presuming they keep the MQM thresholds and don't move strictly to a MQD threshold. Or, providing complimentary elite upgrades intra-Asia (maybe with the exception of Singapore) and allowing for regional upgrade certificates to be used for international premium-economy.

This reminds me.

While the vast majority of Delta elites are U.S. Lower 48-based customers, I have to imagine there remains a sizeable number who are based elsewhere -- be it Europe, Latin America, Asia and the Pacific, and the non-contiguous parts of the United States like Guam, Saipan, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. These customers go out of their way to fly Delta and many don't even receive complimentary elite upgrades because there are no "domestic" flights in their region. I know three diamonds in Guam. Their biggest complaint is the regional upgrade certificates they get at the platinum level are useless for them as are the complimentary elite upgrades because none of their flights to/from Guam and to/from Tokyo are upgradeable without miles or a global upgrade certificate. Presently, they're exempt from the MQD thresholds, which probably makes sense but I think Delta will have a difficult time preserving a separate system for them if a major overhaul/gutting (depending on your perspective) of the program is rolled out.

This gets me back to an earlier post.

Going 100% revenue-based for diamond qualifications penalizes those customers who fly routes that are not premium routes. These customers probably go out of their way to stay loyal to Delta when they don't have to do so.

It's probably why hotel chains haven't gone the revenue route because it would be deeply unfair to penalize a customer who stays 75 nights a year at say a Fairfield Inn -- the only Marriott hotel where he does business -- or a customer who stays 75 nights a year at a Marriott in Asia, where rates could be $50 a night.

xliioper

I think you are vastly overestimating the size of the Diamond level manufactured spend crowd. Yes, I get it, you all spend $220K on your 4 AMEX cards and we should be impressed by your MASSIVE spend. I just think the number of people that fit that category is truly puny and the overall total spend is minuscule compared to the Amex holding Costco members. The overall effect on AMEX/Delta will likely just be noise and the notion it's somehow going to actually undo the entire relationship is simply wishful thinking.

jamesteroh

$220K total (enough for the 100K MQM boost) and then the card goes in a drawer.

My actual BIS miles is around 100K and I like having the nice rollover in case my flying habits change and the MQM boost will count towards MM tiers.

Am Ex typically charges a 3% merchant fee so that is $6,600 in transaction fees plus three annual fees (I'll probably hold one of the reserves for the companion ticket and Skyclub membership) less whatever they pay Delta. Not enough to make or break them.

Hopefully if this occurs they will make changes to the program for PM's as well to make it more attractive like increasing benefits or increasing the MQM requirement to 100K.

hockeyinsider

I've long thought that the difference in thresholds for platinum (75,000 MQMs) and diamond (125,000 MQMs) didn't make sense, especially with silver (25,000 MQMs) basically useless.

If Delta is going to fundamentally revamp the program then it might as well change the status tiers to something like:

Silver - 25,000 MQMs
Gold - 50,000 MQMs
Platinum - 100,000 MQMs
Diamond - 150,000 MQMs (or MQDs-based)
360 - MQDs-based

If you needed something between platinum and diamond, especially for those living outside the United States, you could have a "premier" status reserved for those with a genuine residence outside the non-contiguous United States that included global upgrade certificates.

I know three diamonds in Guam. Their biggest complaint is the regional upgrade certificates they get at the platinum level are useless for them as are the complimentary elite upgrades because none of their flights to/from Guam and to/from Tokyo are upgradeable without miles or a global upgrade certificate.