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Delta increasing Diamond MQD Waiver to $250,000

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Old Sep 26, 2017, 1:09 pm
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On 26SEPT17 Delta changed the MQD AMEX exempt requirements. $25,000 only exempts you to Platinum or lower. $250,000 spend needed across ALL the DL AMEX cards you hold (personal and business in your name) for Diamond exemption for 2019 elite year.

If all you are interested in is the discussion starting when the announcement occurred on Tuesday, September 26, 2017, start here.

The Delta announcement is here https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/skymiles/news-and-updates.html

There are many data points that Delta will allow a one time exception under the 2017 qualification rules if you request this for the 2019 Medallion year.
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Delta increasing Diamond MQD Waiver to $250,000

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Old Oct 25, 2018, 7:00 pm
  #1741  
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I wish I took flights that were cheap enough to leave me short of the MQD requirements. I'd much rather have PM next year with an easy track to PM for 2020.

As it stands, I'll end up with DM and like 10k MQM rollover. I think I can select the Tiffany GC three times and get Mrs. Lee a very nice Christmas present (already have too many RDM, too much trouble using just 4 RUCs each year and not enough flexibility for GUCs, nobody I'd want to gift GM to).
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 9:06 am
  #1742  
 
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I don’t know how some of you log so many MQMs with so little spend.

This year I have 74 segments and 56,023 MQMs flown (112,966 with rollover and AMEX 15,000) but I have spent $19,800 in MQDs. I will end the year with $25,000 in MQDs and will hit DM again but my rollover won’t be as heavy, making qualifying next year a tall task.

I continue to believe that status should be more heavily heavily weighted on spend, rather than just the distance flown.
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 9:42 am
  #1743  
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Originally Posted by JB1000
I don’t know how some of you log so many MQMs with so little spend.

This year I have 74 segments and 56,023 MQMs flown (112,966 with rollover and AMEX 15,000) but I have spent $19,800 in MQDs. I will end the year with $25,000 in MQDs and will hit DM again but my rollover won’t be as heavy, making qualifying next year a tall task.

I continue to believe that status should be more heavily heavily weighted on spend, rather than just the distance flown.
Delta seems to agree with you!

Regarding my flying, I rolled over 45,000 MQMs from 2017 and will earn 45,000 more from my AMEX reserve card (I got a promotion for the third 15,000-MQM boost). That's 90,000 already. The remaining 55,000 came from actual flying, but I plan my travel many months in advance and get cheap tickets (even when I buy discounted F fares). I flew to Singapore in March, earning 20,000 MQMs for less than $1000 (in coach, obviously). A recent round-trip to Europe earned 8000 or so MQMs for $981 (also in coach). I get 2000-MQM round-trips to NYC all the time for $200.

Bruce
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 11:13 am
  #1744  
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Originally Posted by JB1000
This year I have 74 segments and 56,023 MQMs flown [...] I will end the year with $25,000 in MQDs [...]
I continue to believe that status should be more heavily heavily weighted on spend, rather than just the distance flown.
​​​​​​Shocker.
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 11:26 am
  #1745  
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"I flew 1700 miles last year and it's just a TOTAL COINCIDENCE that I also believe that the criteria for 360 should be exactly 1699 MQMs"
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 11:28 am
  #1746  
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Originally Posted by JB1000


I continue to believe that status should be more heavily heavily weighted on spend, rather than just the distance flown.
seriously, though, what does this even mean? You think the MQM requirement should be lower, the MQD requirement should be higher?

It's not "just the distance flown" today.
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 11:30 am
  #1747  
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FWIW I have 80k MQM, 101 MQS, and 17k MQD right now. So I personally would massively benefit from a pure MQD system but I don't think that necessarily means it's the way it should be.
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 12:24 pm
  #1748  
 
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Originally Posted by pvn
seriously, though, what does this even mean? You think the MQM requirement should be lower, the MQD requirement should be higher?

It's not "just the distance flown" today.
It means that there is an imbalance with the relative ease of earning MQMs to MQDs. As several have demonstrated, if you fly internationally you can get a higher multiple of MQMs for each MQD, disproportionately so compared to domestic travel.

If you live in Atlanta and fly frequently domestically then it is very difficult, absent going to the West Coast weekly to rack up MQMs. So my spend is pretty damn high but my MQMs don’t reflect that, which means I have a very low multiplier on my MQDs, whereas others can spend less and travel not as frequent but because of the distance they travel they accumulate a very high number of MQMs.

my multiplier is maybe 2.7x MQMs for MQDs. I’d wager that is on the low end for DM, but my MQDs are on the high end.
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 12:39 pm
  #1749  
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Originally Posted by JB1000
I don’t know how some of you log so many MQMs with so little spend.

This year I have 74 segments and 56,023 MQMs flown (112,966 with rollover and AMEX 15,000) but I have spent $19,800 in MQDs. I will end the year with $25,000 in MQDs and will hit DM again but my rollover won’t be as heavy, making qualifying next year a tall task.

I continue to believe that status should be more heavily heavily weighted on spend, rather than just the distance flown.
Status isn't about really about "rewarding" you though - airline FFs are marketing programs under the guise of reward programs. If you have 74 segments and only 56,000 MQMs, you're flying short hops at an average length of about 720 miles (which doesn't factor in any MQM bonuses if you have any F/J fares or Y/B/M fares that earn the MQM bonus). That means there's quite possibly far less competition on the routes you fly, and less viable options. DL has to do less and offer less to compete for your business because it can likely already offer to you what you what most business travelers value most - convenience - while apparently another airline really can't (or offers it in a far less desireable way). I.e, if you're someone who flies ATL-DTW all the time, you're likely to stick with DL over say AA or UA because DL can fly you nonstop. AA and UA can't. So DL doesn't need to entice you with much to fly. They offer a nonstop, which is what most travelers would value most, over spending 2-3 times more time en route by connecting in say ORD, IAD, CLT, etc. to get to DTW.

Not saying DL will never do away with MQMs/MQSs and just go straight to MQDs, but for DL, if they went to just MQDs they would be over-rewarding people unnecessarily (in their minds) because if someone like you is already giving DL $20K in spend and maybe only making GM or PM (you will make DM but many others in a situation like yours won't), why would DL want to over-reward and spend more resources on someone that they don't need to? (That's the question from DL's perspective)
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 1:26 pm
  #1750  
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Originally Posted by JB1000
...my multiplier is maybe 2.7x MQMs for MQDs. I’d wager that is on the low end for DM, but my MQDs are on the high end.
Undoubtedly, you're correct. My MQM/MQD ratio is about 12. Delta can't be very happy about that, but I am DM -- at least for this year.

Bruce
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 1:26 pm
  #1751  
 
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR
Status isn't about really about "rewarding" you though - airline FFs are marketing programs under the guise of reward programs. If you have 74 segments and only 56,000 MQMs, you're flying short hops at an average length of about 720 miles (which doesn't factor in any MQM bonuses if you have any F/J fares or Y/B/M fares that earn the MQM bonus). That means there's quite possibly far less competition on the routes you fly, and less viable options. DL has to do less and offer less to compete for your business because it can likely already offer to you what you what most business travelers value most - convenience - while apparently another airline really can't (or offers it in a far less desireable way). I.e, if you're someone who flies ATL-DTW all the time, you're likely to stick with DL over say AA or UA because DL can fly you nonstop. AA and UA can't. So DL doesn't need to entice you with much to fly. They offer a nonstop, which is what most travelers would value most, over spending 2-3 times more time en route by connecting in say ORD, IAD, CLT, etc. to get to DTW.

Not saying DL will never do away with MQMs/MQSs and just go straight to MQDs, but for DL, if they went to just MQDs they would be over-rewarding people unnecessarily (in their minds) because if someone like you is already giving DL $20K in spend and maybe only making GM or PM (you will make DM but many others in a situation like yours won't), why would DL want to over-reward and spend more resources on someone that they don't need to? (That's the question from DL's perspective)
I live in Atlanta so 50% of the population of the US is within a 2-2.5 hour flight from here, which means the highest mileage flight in that geographic area is about 700-800 MQMs per segment. We also have options other than Delta here with AA and now Southwest that provide lower cost, albeit fewer, direct flights to more cities. However, select cities like Nashville have Delta as the only direct flight and boy do you get charged for it $700-$900 RT, on average.

Anyway, yes, I get I’m whining in my favor but given my 1) frequency of travel (trips, not segments because I’m not forced to connect 99% of the time) and 2) my spending, it would be great to not get to DM by the skin of my teeth.

I guess it’s how you define your most valuable customers and what you really want to do with your rewards program.
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 1:41 pm
  #1752  
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Originally Posted by JB1000


It means that there is an imbalance with the relative ease of earning MQMs to MQDs. As several have demonstrated, if you fly internationally you can get a higher multiple of MQMs for each MQD, disproportionately so compared to domestic travel.

If you live in Atlanta and fly frequently domestically then it is very difficult, absent going to the West Coast weekly to rack up MQMs. So my spend is pretty damn high but my MQMs don’t reflect that, which means I have a very low multiplier on my MQDs, whereas others can spend less and travel not as frequent but because of the distance they travel they accumulate a very high number of MQMs.

my multiplier is maybe 2.7x MQMs for MQDs. I’d wager that is on the low end for DM, but my MQDs are on the high end.
what's the "correct" multiplier?

Obviously it's easier for people who... fly further.

Clearly the people running the program think there are criteria in addition to spend that they want to track. I'm not sure what basis you or anyone else has to say they're "wrong". It's essentially arbitrary, they set the criteria to maximize some business objective, not to make it convenient for particular people.
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 2:09 pm
  #1753  
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Originally Posted by JB1000
I live in Atlanta so 50% of the population of the US is within a 2-2.5 hour flight from here, which means the highest mileage flight in that geographic area is about 700-800 MQMs per segment. We also have options other than Delta here with AA and now Southwest that provide lower cost, albeit fewer, direct flights to more cities. However, select cities like Nashville have Delta as the only direct flight and boy do you get charged for it $700-$900 RT, on average.

WN does do ATL-BNA nonstop too. But DL knows anyone flying just ATL-BNA is someone who really values their time highly as the time savings of flying ATL-BNA over driving it (as O&D, not for those continuing onward or connecting at ATL) is not that much. You can drive between Nashville and Atlanta in about 4 hours. Flying ATL-BNA as an O&D pair isn't much of a time savings. 20-30 minutes to get from downtown to ATL to drop off at the curb. Even if you get there only 1 hour before the flight, that's already 90 minutes or so. Then a 1 hour hop (with no delays). Estimate another 20-30 min to get from the plane to a cab or your ride to your destination in Nashville (and that assumes not waiting at bag claim and also not spending the time time to get a rental car) - you haven't saved much time. So if your time is valuable enough that you're willing to fly to save at most 1 hour, your one hour of time must be pretty valuable to you or somebody else. No reason for a business not to capitalize on that valuation of your time and DL doesn't need to entice you or reward you for that. They've already received your business by providing what you value most.

Originally Posted by JB1000
Anyway, yes, I get I’m whining in my favor but given my 1) frequency of travel (trips, not segments because I’m not forced to connect 99% of the time) and 2) my spending, it would be great to not get to DM by the skin of my teeth.
Always mileage runs as an option. While I get that some people don't want to spend more time traveling when they already travel that much, it's an option. Take a cheap trip to get the MQMs needed and make a mini-vacation out of it.

Originally Posted by JB1000
I guess it’s how you define your most valuable customers and what you really want to do with your rewards program.
If DL went to straight MQDs, I bet you'd have a lot of people who are hub captives who don't fly that often who would all of the sudden qualify for status (unless DL really changed the qualification thresholds), thus enlarging the pool of Medallions. Anyone who flies to Europe on one J ticket or even just one or two domestic transcons in F would be FO after one trip (you already can do this if you do a J trip to Australia or South Africa - you can easily qualify for FO in MQMs and MQDs off one J trip to Australia from ATL or to JNB especially if you route via Europe to JNB - but if just MQDs anyone who did a high value J ticket to F or Europe or Australia or Asia would be GM after one trip). However, this move would alienate customers they currently have to compete for in in markets with lots of competition in favor of customers they don't have to compete as hard for, like in ATL. While I get that it can be frustrating for hub captives like folks in ATL or MSP or DTW, from DL's business perspective, it makes sense.

Last edited by ATOBTTR; Oct 26, 2018 at 2:19 pm
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 2:31 pm
  #1754  
 
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Originally Posted by pvn
what's the "correct" multiplier?

Obviously it's easier for people who... fly further.

Clearly the people running the program think there are criteria in addition to spend that they want to track. I'm not sure what basis you or anyone else has to say they're "wrong". It's essentially arbitrary, they set the criteria to maximize some business objective, not to make it convenient for particular people.
take this example. Two flyers who live in the same city and fly Delta.

Flyer 1:
23 round trips to San Francisco (46 MQS)
4,268 MQMs RT x 23 = 98,164 MQMs
$655 MQD per ticket (what I just paid) x 23 = $15,000 MQDs (6.54x MQM/MQD)
30,000 AMEX MQM
MQMs + MQDs = Diamond

Flyer 2:
37 round trips domestically to various major MSAs (74 MQS)
1,543 MQM RT x 37 = 56,943 MQMs
$537 MQD per ticket x 37 = $19,871 MQDs (2.87x MQM/MQD)
30,000 AMEX MQM
MQM + MQD = Platinum

so flyer 2 flies more frequently and spends more money but because of the destination they don’t accumulate enough MQMs to hit DM.

So does Flyer 1 have a higher multiplier because a $655 4,200 mile round trip flight is more profitable than a $537 1,600 mile round trip flight??

All I am saying is that for the longest time status has been based on miles flown. After the uproar from travelers who didn’t buy budget tickets so were at a disadvantage did Delta add in the MQD qualifier. However, I think there is another step they could take. So maybe rather than a minimum MQM per segment they have a minimum MQD multiplier. I dunno but it feels like there’s room for them to improve to reward their biggest spenders.
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Last edited by JB1000; Oct 26, 2018 at 2:39 pm
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Old Oct 26, 2018, 2:41 pm
  #1755  
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A) Making up some numbers doesn't really tell us anything about real travelers.

B) "biggest spenders" aren't necessarily the most desirable customers. In your example, the guy with fewer segments probably generated less overhead cost for Delta, plus he spent a bunch on his Amex which also generates profit for DL.
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