Regulation (EC) 261/2004 Delayed flight - Delta Air Lines Definitive Thread
Oct 21, 2016, 3:33 am
#61
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UM, people come here asking for information. No one comes here expecting a ECJ judge to answer there question. You're quite simply misreading the judgment in the case you are referring to. In fact it gave clear examples. Sorry that you don't like the answer, but the fact is that EU261 doesn't apply to a flight operated on a non EU carrier not departing from the EU. Arrival time of the final flight only matters in regards to a claim for EU261 for a flight covered by EU261. In this case the covered flight had no issue that would be covered by EU261, thus the arrival time of the connecting flight is irrelevant. If the first flight had an issue covered by EU261 then the arrival time of the connecting flight matters, but only in regards to what amount of compensation that gets paid for the covered flight. The ruling didn't extend EU261 to cover flights departing outside the US. It just said that the arrival time of the connecting flight is what matters for calculation purposes.
Before this the airline's would say that if the delay to the final destination was the result of the non-covered flight that compensation didn't need to be paid.
Again Example 1 - The flight from EU was cancelled, and person tossed on another airline. Flight gets into ATL with time to catch original flight. Plane then has mechanical issue and is delayed. Under the old standard the airline didn't need to pay out. They would say the delay was the result of an issue on the non-covered flight
Example 2 - same as above but under new standard as issued by ECJ. The arrival time of the final flight (regardless of reason for delay) is used to calculate compensation under EU261.
Notice in the new standard the compensation is still based on the ex-EU flight. They no longer get out of paying a claim by saying the late arrival was the result of the non-covered flight. At no point did the judgement extend EU261 to cover the ATL-EYW flight.
Before this the airline's would say that if the delay to the final destination was the result of the non-covered flight that compensation didn't need to be paid.
Again Example 1 - The flight from EU was cancelled, and person tossed on another airline. Flight gets into ATL with time to catch original flight. Plane then has mechanical issue and is delayed. Under the old standard the airline didn't need to pay out. They would say the delay was the result of an issue on the non-covered flight
Example 2 - same as above but under new standard as issued by ECJ. The arrival time of the final flight (regardless of reason for delay) is used to calculate compensation under EU261.
Notice in the new standard the compensation is still based on the ex-EU flight. They no longer get out of paying a claim by saying the late arrival was the result of the non-covered flight. At no point did the judgement extend EU261 to cover the ATL-EYW flight.
In addition: The EU - US flight had no 'EU261 issues' & pax didn't miss the connection flight.
Conditions are clearly described in the additional official papers:
"the European Parliament and of the Council establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights"
ii. Compensation, denied boarding and connecting flights
Passengers on connected flights must be compensated where, in the context of a single contract of carriage with an itinerary involving directly connecting flights and a single check-in, an air carrier denies boarding to some passengers on the ground that the first flight included in their reservation has been subject to a delay attributable to that carrier and the latter mistakenly expected those passengers not to arrive in time to board the second flight40.
vii. Compensation for late arrival in the case of connecting flights
The Court43 takes the view that a delay must be assessed for the purposes of the compensation provided for in Article 7 of the Regulation, in relation to the scheduled time of arrival at the passenger's final destination as defined in Article 2(h) of the Regulation, which in the case of directly connecting flights must be understood as the destination of the last flight taken by the passenger.
In accordance with Article 3(1)(a), passengers who missed a connection within the EU, or outside the EU with a flight coming from an airport situated in the territory of a Member State, should be entitled to compensation, if they arrived at final destination with a delay of more than three hours. Whether the carrier operating the connecting flights is an EU carrier or a non-EU carrier is not relevant.
40 Case C-321/11, Rodríguez Cachafeiro and Martínez-Reboredo Varela Villamor, ECLI:EU:C:2012:609, paragraph 36.
43 Case C-11/11, Folkerts, ECLI:EU:C:2013:106, paragraph 47.
Last edited by Grouchy; Oct 21, 2016 at 3:45 am
Feb 19, 2017, 3:03 pm
#62
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I'm going through the processes right now with Delta.
I flew OSL-AMS-MSP-SEA. Flights arrived on-time to MSP, but the Delta outage a few weeks back canceled my flight and I was stuck in Minneapolis overnight. I am pursuing 600 euros because I arrived to my final destination with a long delay.
So far, the Delta representative called me and argued that since it was a purely domestic flight, EU 261 doesn't apply. However, the past court cases I've read and passenger stories I've heard make me think otherwise. They offered a $200 voucher as good will, but I've declined until I receive full compensation. I filled out all the information on AirHelp and they say I'm due compensation under EU 261; I just want to pursue it myself so I don't have to pay AirHelp the 25% cut.
Does anyone else have examples of getting compensated for purely US domestic flights when traveling on a ticket from the EU?
I flew OSL-AMS-MSP-SEA. Flights arrived on-time to MSP, but the Delta outage a few weeks back canceled my flight and I was stuck in Minneapolis overnight. I am pursuing 600 euros because I arrived to my final destination with a long delay.
So far, the Delta representative called me and argued that since it was a purely domestic flight, EU 261 doesn't apply. However, the past court cases I've read and passenger stories I've heard make me think otherwise. They offered a $200 voucher as good will, but I've declined until I receive full compensation. I filled out all the information on AirHelp and they say I'm due compensation under EU 261; I just want to pursue it myself so I don't have to pay AirHelp the 25% cut.
Does anyone else have examples of getting compensated for purely US domestic flights when traveling on a ticket from the EU?
Feb 19, 2017, 6:29 pm
#63
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The final destination arrival time only matters if there's a qualifying event, on a qualifying flight. Since your qualifying flight (ex-EU) didn't have a qualifying event, there's nothing to claim. Example - The flight to MSP had been canceled and they put you on another flight which including connection would get you in on time/under cutoff. No comp. Same situation but the domestic flight is delayed for whatever reason. In this case you would qualify since the final arrival time at final destination is what matters for calculating comp for the ex-EU flight. However if the ex-EU flight operates as normal/on time then there's no qualifying event to be compensated for. The Domestic flight isn't covered by EU261, so you can't get compensation for an event that happens in regards to it.
Feb 19, 2017, 6:58 pm
#64
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The final destination arrival time only matters if there's a qualifying event, on a qualifying flight. Since your qualifying flight (ex-EU) didn't have a qualifying event, there's nothing to claim. Example - The flight to MSP had been canceled and they put you on another flight which including connection would get you in on time/under cutoff. No comp. Same situation but the domestic flight is delayed for whatever reason. In this case you would qualify since the final arrival time at final destination is what matters for calculating comp for the ex-EU flight. However if the ex-EU flight operates as normal/on time then there's no qualifying event to be compensated for. The Domestic flight isn't covered by EU261, so you can't get compensation for an event that happens in regards to it.
My son and I each received $600 in vouchers and 20k points for the 27-hour delay. We also were able to get a hotel and meals b/c I had purchased travel insurance.
Feb 19, 2017, 8:09 pm
#65
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I'm going through the processes right now with Delta.
I flew OSL-AMS-MSP-SEA. Flights arrived on-time to MSP, but the Delta outage a few weeks back canceled my flight and I was stuck in Minneapolis overnight. I am pursuing 600 euros because I arrived to my final destination with a long delay.
So far, the Delta representative called me and argued that since it was a purely domestic flight, EU 261 doesn't apply. However, the past court cases I've read and passenger stories I've heard make me think otherwise. They offered a $200 voucher as good will, but I've declined until I receive full compensation. I filled out all the information on AirHelp and they say I'm due compensation under EU 261; I just want to pursue it myself so I don't have to pay AirHelp the 25% cut.
Does anyone else have examples of getting compensated for purely US domestic flights when traveling on a ticket from the EU?
I flew OSL-AMS-MSP-SEA. Flights arrived on-time to MSP, but the Delta outage a few weeks back canceled my flight and I was stuck in Minneapolis overnight. I am pursuing 600 euros because I arrived to my final destination with a long delay.
So far, the Delta representative called me and argued that since it was a purely domestic flight, EU 261 doesn't apply. However, the past court cases I've read and passenger stories I've heard make me think otherwise. They offered a $200 voucher as good will, but I've declined until I receive full compensation. I filled out all the information on AirHelp and they say I'm due compensation under EU 261; I just want to pursue it myself so I don't have to pay AirHelp the 25% cut.
Does anyone else have examples of getting compensated for purely US domestic flights when traveling on a ticket from the EU?
The cases you are thinking of are situations where a departure from the EU causes a misconnect outside the EU and the delay at the "final ticketed destination" exceeds 3 or 4 hours as the case may be, thus entitling the passenger to EUR 300 or 600. If your AMS-MSP flight had been delayed, causing you to misconnect on your SEA flight and arrive 5 hours late at SEA, you would be entitled to EUR 600.
But, in your situation, your xEU flight arrived on schedule.
May 30, 2017, 7:42 am
#66
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Just wondering if someone would be able to help me out to see if my flight issues this weekend count towards EU261 compensation.
Flight was on 5/27 - DUB-JFK DL45, flight was delayed out of DUB for engine issues, and we sat on the tarmac for 4 hours before we could be brought back to a "USA" gate and deplane to get refreshments, after another hour at the "USA" gate we were given the all clear to take off from DUB to JFK. Due to our delay I missed my connection from JFK to DTW (2809), and was put on the last flight out(2835). My original arrival time into Detroit was supposed to be 5:46pm, however I landed in Detroit at 9:29. Also to make matters worse, my luggage was delayed by a day.
Flight was on 5/27 - DUB-JFK DL45, flight was delayed out of DUB for engine issues, and we sat on the tarmac for 4 hours before we could be brought back to a "USA" gate and deplane to get refreshments, after another hour at the "USA" gate we were given the all clear to take off from DUB to JFK. Due to our delay I missed my connection from JFK to DTW (2809), and was put on the last flight out(2835). My original arrival time into Detroit was supposed to be 5:46pm, however I landed in Detroit at 9:29. Also to make matters worse, my luggage was delayed by a day.
May 30, 2017, 7:48 am
#67
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They got you in just under the cutoff for needing to pay full compensation. You do qualify for half which mean 300 Euros. Can demand in cash/wire transfer or can accept vouchers if you wish. The choice is yours. Most go for vouchers since airlines offer a bit more then cash.
May 30, 2017, 9:46 am
#69
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DL is correct. EC 261/2004 does not apply to your ticket and you are not due any compensation at all other than that required by the COC. DL may also provide a customer service gesture outside of its contractual obligations.
The cases you are thinking of are situations where a departure from the EU causes a misconnect outside the EU and the delay at the "final ticketed destination" exceeds 3 or 4 hours as the case may be, thus entitling the passenger to EUR 300 or 600. If your AMS-MSP flight had been delayed, causing you to misconnect on your SEA flight and arrive 5 hours late at SEA, you would be entitled to EUR 600.
But, in your situation, your xEU flight arrived on schedule.
The cases you are thinking of are situations where a departure from the EU causes a misconnect outside the EU and the delay at the "final ticketed destination" exceeds 3 or 4 hours as the case may be, thus entitling the passenger to EUR 300 or 600. If your AMS-MSP flight had been delayed, causing you to misconnect on your SEA flight and arrive 5 hours late at SEA, you would be entitled to EUR 600.
But, in your situation, your xEU flight arrived on schedule.
Had the xEU flight been delayed and caused a misconnect or other delay into SEA of 3+ hours, OP would be due EUR 300 at the 3-hour mark and EUR 600 at the 4-hour mark.
May 30, 2017, 9:49 am
#70
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Just wondering if someone would be able to help me out to see if my flight issues this weekend count towards EU261 compensation.
Flight was on 5/27 - DUB-JFK DL45, flight was delayed out of DUB for engine issues, and we sat on the tarmac for 4 hours before we could be brought back to a "USA" gate and deplane to get refreshments, after another hour at the "USA" gate we were given the all clear to take off from DUB to JFK. Due to our delay I missed my connection from JFK to DTW (2809), and was put on the last flight out(2835). My original arrival time into Detroit was supposed to be 5:46pm, however I landed in Detroit at 9:29. Also to make matters worse, my luggage was delayed by a day.
Flight was on 5/27 - DUB-JFK DL45, flight was delayed out of DUB for engine issues, and we sat on the tarmac for 4 hours before we could be brought back to a "USA" gate and deplane to get refreshments, after another hour at the "USA" gate we were given the all clear to take off from DUB to JFK. Due to our delay I missed my connection from JFK to DTW (2809), and was put on the last flight out(2835). My original arrival time into Detroit was supposed to be 5:46pm, however I landed in Detroit at 9:29. Also to make matters worse, my luggage was delayed by a day.
As to the baggage, DL will generally reimburse the purchase of properly-receipted necessities. With generous carry-on allowances, DL can be fairly tough on this. Nonetheless, submit those separately.
Jun 6, 2017, 9:43 am
#72
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Jun 6, 2017, 11:24 am
#73
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It could take a month or longer to receive a response. It took about 5 weeks to receive a response when I had a similar delay due to engine issues, but I received a very nice letter explaining what occurred and a check in the mail a couple days later. Be patient.
Jan 29, 2018, 9:34 am
#74
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Wanted to get a second opinion as I don't fly Delta nor have experienced a delay when departing the EU:
Friend departed on a Air France ticket (operated / operating carrier was Delta) from CDG to JFK.
Flight sat 4 hours on Tarmac due to mechanical issue (tire brake)
No deplaning
Flight arrived into JFK 3.5 hours delayed.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...pensation.html
Is this EU261 claimable? I'm a bit confused after reading the form as it doesn't qualify for A or B. Does this mean it is C? And since it arrived in under 4 hours, the claim is cut in 50%? So only 300 pounds instead of 600?
Thank you.
Friend departed on a Air France ticket (operated / operating carrier was Delta) from CDG to JFK.
Flight sat 4 hours on Tarmac due to mechanical issue (tire brake)
No deplaning
Flight arrived into JFK 3.5 hours delayed.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...pensation.html
Is this EU261 claimable? I'm a bit confused after reading the form as it doesn't qualify for A or B. Does this mean it is C? And since it arrived in under 4 hours, the claim is cut in 50%? So only 300 pounds instead of 600?
Thank you.
Last edited by laxmillenial; Jan 29, 2018 at 9:44 am
Jan 29, 2018, 11:01 am
#75
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Wanted to get a second opinion as I don't fly Delta nor have experienced a delay when departing the EU:
Friend departed on a Air France ticket (operated / operating carrier was Delta) from CDG to JFK.
Flight sat 4 hours on Tarmac due to mechanical issue (tire brake)
No deplaning
Flight arrived into JFK 3.5 hours delayed.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...pensation.html
Is this EU261 claimable? I'm a bit confused after reading the form as it doesn't qualify for A or B. Does this mean it is C? And since it arrived in under 4 hours, the claim is cut in 50%? So only 300 pounds instead of 600?
Thank you.
Friend departed on a Air France ticket (operated / operating carrier was Delta) from CDG to JFK.
Flight sat 4 hours on Tarmac due to mechanical issue (tire brake)
No deplaning
Flight arrived into JFK 3.5 hours delayed.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...pensation.html
Is this EU261 claimable? I'm a bit confused after reading the form as it doesn't qualify for A or B. Does this mean it is C? And since it arrived in under 4 hours, the claim is cut in 50%? So only 300 pounds instead of 600?
Thank you.
Did friend miss a connection from JFK onwards?
I had a succesful claim in 2016 NCE-JFK, but it was delayed a full day and involved an overnight stay in JFK b/c I missed connection.
Last edited by Stgermainparis; Jan 29, 2018 at 11:07 am