Last edit by: BadgerBoi
The Definitive Guide to Seat Poaching
1. Don't do it.
2. Alternatively to #1: Asking politely (and not demanding) to swap for an equal or better seat is acceptable by most (but the final decision always lays with the original seat holder)...but, be warned, some FT'ers may breathe fire at you.
3. Keep in mind that Point 2 is not seat poaching.
1. Don't do it.
2. Alternatively to #1: Asking politely (and not demanding) to swap for an equal or better seat is acceptable by most (but the final decision always lays with the original seat holder)...but, be warned, some FT'ers may breathe fire at you.
3. Keep in mind that Point 2 is not seat poaching.
Seat Swapping, Seat Poaching and Seating Etiquette: The Definitive Thread
#1621
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
I realize I'm probably wasting my effort typing but the "adults can be apart for a few hours" argument is a bit of a presumption in that you assume they'll be "reunited" on landing. When I was dating my wife, we lived in separate parts of the country for a while and would often travel together, and we'd meet up at our connecting points (hub) to travel together on one of the flights, and then the opposite on our return. In other words, our flight might actually be our last few hours together before parting ways and I'm simply pointing out that the reasoning so many on here use to justify not wanting to swap isn't always the case for everyone.
#1622
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Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
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Here's the thing...I don't care. I don't care if they are spending their last few precious moments together. If it was that important, they should have booked seats together. If they got hosed by IRROPS...well. STILL not my problem. Another case of people confusing a WANT with a NEED.
#1623
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
I feel very fortunate that my interactions with people like you have been limited to FlyerTalk and not on actual planes or in public. Convinces me that people like you are 1) a very small and insignificant portion of the population and thus I haven't come across people like you just based on statistics or 2) people like you are merely internet tough guys and keyboard commandos, but act less like jerks in person when you actually have to deal with and face people.
Who is really the jerk? The person disturbs another passenger for their own selfish interests, or the person who says no to that kind of behavior on principle?
If you needed to be with your lovey so badly Why didn't you book seats together?
#1625
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
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And there in lies the issue - you immediately resort to a way of placing all the blame on the one who asks, which I guess makes you feel better about saying "no", even if the reasoning you're using wasn't the case. In our cases we DID book seats together. But IROPS happen. Equipment swaps happen. Does that mean the person is reuqired to swap? No. But that doesn't mean we can't at least ask. I'm not really sure why you can't fathom that people who know each other want to sit next to each other..... but again, thankfully people like you are insignificant in population or tone it down in the real world.
#1626
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Atlanta
Programs: Delta Diamond; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 655
I don't care if your dismissive of my opinion. That fact that you're insulting is unnecessary, but also an FT TOS violation.
I've never made any of those arguments. Not once. I don't care whether adults "need" to sit together or not. I don't care why anyone "needs" or "wants" my seat. Generally, the only exception I make are for people traveling in what I deem to be an emergency.
Interrupting something to ask a favor is an imposition. The extent of the imposition depends on what I'm doing and how I'm feeling at the time. If someone stops me on my way to my seat and asks, quickly and politely for a swap, the imposition is de minimus. On the other hand, if someone taps me on the shoulder after I've settled in, put on my headphones, started to listen to music and am trying to fall asleep, the imposition is considerably more annoying.
You can't stop people from farting, either. And no one has suggested either. What most of us have said is that, after years of extensive frequent flying, we've rarely been politely offered a comparable or better seat. And what I've said was that, after 30+ years of frequent flying, I never experienced a polite request from a parent seeking to sit with their child. Since the odds of a polite request, combined with a comparable or better seat, are, in my experience, pretty much nil, I'd rather not be asked at all.
I feel the same about door-to-door solicitors and salesman. I suppose it is not impossible that, some day, someone might come to my door and offer me something in which I'm interested. However, in 6+ decades I've lived on this planet, no one ever has. I am, therefore, no more receptive to door-to-door solicitors than I am to seat swap requesters.
I've never made any of those arguments. Not once. I don't care whether adults "need" to sit together or not. I don't care why anyone "needs" or "wants" my seat. Generally, the only exception I make are for people traveling in what I deem to be an emergency.
Interrupting something to ask a favor is an imposition. The extent of the imposition depends on what I'm doing and how I'm feeling at the time. If someone stops me on my way to my seat and asks, quickly and politely for a swap, the imposition is de minimus. On the other hand, if someone taps me on the shoulder after I've settled in, put on my headphones, started to listen to music and am trying to fall asleep, the imposition is considerably more annoying.
You can't stop people from farting, either. And no one has suggested either. What most of us have said is that, after years of extensive frequent flying, we've rarely been politely offered a comparable or better seat. And what I've said was that, after 30+ years of frequent flying, I never experienced a polite request from a parent seeking to sit with their child. Since the odds of a polite request, combined with a comparable or better seat, are, in my experience, pretty much nil, I'd rather not be asked at all.
I feel the same about door-to-door solicitors and salesman. I suppose it is not impossible that, some day, someone might come to my door and offer me something in which I'm interested. However, in 6+ decades I've lived on this planet, no one ever has. I am, therefore, no more receptive to door-to-door solicitors than I am to seat swap requesters.
Proudelitist has repeatedly made the arguments I cited about "want/need" and "my seat." Nothing in my post attributes those arguments specifically to you. In fact, the initial post you found objectionable said nothing about you in particular. If you aren't trolling, I wonder why you were so quick to be offended at my observation that some of the recent posts border on trolling.
After years of frequent flying, I've experienced just the opposite -- virtually every request has been polite. You're just unlucky, I guess.
Yes, your examples -- farting and a stranger ringing the doorbell to ask to be allowed into your home (a stranger who, unlike an aircraft passenger, has not been screened for weapons) -- are exactly like asking to trade seats on an airplane. In fact, after reading your post's incredible display of rhetorical prowess through its deft display of accurate and compelling analogies, one truly wonders how I could have ever characterized your side's arguments as elitist trolling.
#1627
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
If being asked to swap seats is the greatest disturbance you ever have in your life, well, I don't know whether to envy you that you have such a lifestyle in that being asked to swap seats is the greatest problem in your life or feel sorry for you in that you're so easily bothered in life. While I've had people turn down swap requests before, thankfully my interactions with people who act like you in response to seat swaps requests have been limited to FlyerTalk.
And there in lies the issue - you immediately resort to a way of placing all the blame on the one who asks, which I guess makes you feel better about saying "no", even if the reasoning you're using wasn't the case. In our cases we DID book seats together. But IROPS happen. Equipment swaps happen.
Does that mean the person is reuqired to swap? No. But that doesn't mean we can't at least ask.
I'm not really sure why you can't fathom that people who know each other want to sit next to each other..... but again, thankfully people like you are insignificant in population or tone it down in the real world.
#1628
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Well, let's ask the moderators:
Moderators: is calling another poster an "elitist troll" a violation of the FT TOS?
Name-calling isn't criticism of my opinion. You know nothing of my behavior, except that I've been civil to you in this exchange, whereas you have not.
Okay, here's a challenge: Please provide the post number and quote in which I have said I believe someone is "obnoxious for daring to ask me a question politely on an airplane." You're making up quotes that don't exist, and attributing opinions to me that I don't hold. Are you a politician or some kind of political operative? If so, I can understand you're using these tactics. If not, however, it's just plain rude.
If you weren't calling me an elitist troll, then I think you for the clarification and you can continue sparring with Proudelitist. It wasn't at all clear, given that your criticism was directed towards those who don't like to be asked to swap, and I have been quite clear that I don't.
Apparently so. Suggesting that I'm lying, however, is, again, an appropriate tactic for a politician, but not for FTers having a discussion in a thread.
Well, again, you miss the point entirely, and, needless to say, I never said anything about allowing strangers into your home. I'll spell it out:
Asking the favor of a swap, farting and door-to-door solicitation are all legal.
Asking the favor of a swap, farting and door-to-door solicitation are ally annoying to some degree.
Are we clear now?
I don't have a side. Do you think I'm on some kind of team with Proudelitist? I'm not. As for the rest of your attempt at irony, it's substanceless and completely irrelevant to this discussion, so I'll just ignore it.
Moderators: is calling another poster an "elitist troll" a violation of the FT TOS?
I've criticized your opinion and behavior,
just as you and Proudelitist have proclaimed how obnoxious you believe others are for daring to ask you a question politely on an airplane.
Proudelitist has repeatedly made the arguments I cited about "want/need" and "my seat." Nothing in my post attributes those arguments specifically to you. In fact, the initial post you found objectionable said nothing about you in particular. If you aren't trolling, I wonder why you were so quick to be offended at my observation that some of the recent posts border on trolling.
After years of frequent flying, I've experienced just the opposite -- virtually every request has been polite. You're just unlucky, I guess.
Yes, your examples -- farting and a stranger ringing the doorbell to ask to be allowed into your home (a stranger who, unlike an aircraft passenger, has not been screened for weapons) -- are exactly like asking to trade seats on an airplane.
Asking the favor of a swap, farting and door-to-door solicitation are all legal.
Asking the favor of a swap, farting and door-to-door solicitation are ally annoying to some degree.
Are we clear now?
In fact, after reading your post's incredible display of rhetorical prowess through its deft display of accurate and compelling analogies, one truly wonders how I could have ever characterized your side's arguments as elitist trolling.
#1629
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,669
This happened to me a couple of weeks ago.
I had a C+ aisle seat on my flight home, but had to do a last minute change to another flight (work related, not DL's fault). I ended up with a middle seat, because it was the only choice to get home that evening.
When I got to my row, there was someone else in my seat. The guy immediately said his wife was on the window, would I mind seating on the aisle? I took it.
But it seems that to a couple of FT'ers, that was a grave transgression as he was sitting in "my" seat.
To those couple of folks: would you have really booted the guy "on principle"?
Anyway. Enjoy the rest of the thread, I'm out.
I had a C+ aisle seat on my flight home, but had to do a last minute change to another flight (work related, not DL's fault). I ended up with a middle seat, because it was the only choice to get home that evening.
When I got to my row, there was someone else in my seat. The guy immediately said his wife was on the window, would I mind seating on the aisle? I took it.
But it seems that to a couple of FT'ers, that was a grave transgression as he was sitting in "my" seat.
To those couple of folks: would you have really booted the guy "on principle"?
Anyway. Enjoy the rest of the thread, I'm out.
#1630
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
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Posts: 10,356
As I wrote in my post, there is disturbance and there is disturbance. Someone who asks me while I'm on the way to my seat is barely disturbing. Someone who taps me on the shoulder after I've settled in, put on my headphones and music, closed my eyes and am trying to sleep, constitutes considerably more disturbance. This is compounded if I'm exhausted, haven't gotten much sleep, or had a particularly difficult day. And all of this is very typical for me when I fly on business. You're not disturbed much? That's fine, but I really don't understand why you think you have the right to determine how much this kind of interruption is for someone else.
This is compounded if I'm exhausted, haven't gotten much sleep, or had a particularly difficult day. And all of this is very typical for me when I fly on business. You're not disturbed much? That's fine, but I really don't understand why you think you have the right to determine how much this kind of interruption is for someone else.
However, as I've said several times, if you tap me on the shoulder after I'm settled in, listening to music and trying to sleep, then you are being rude, self-centered and annoying because you have disturbed me unnecessarily, and I'm going to respond to you as such. Is that really such an alien concept?
#1631
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Yet the statements act like it.
So what do you want (besides the argument of convenience)? Would you rather someone board ahead of you and poach your seat so that you’re not already settled in to your seat when asked? Or would you rather they not poach it but then disturb you?
So you expect people to care and consider your factors in why you shouldn’t be asked for a swap and thus being “disturbed” by merely even being asked, but you don’t want to care or consider other people’s factors in why they’re asking for a seat swap....
It’s like you don’t even read what you write:
However, I never said that I believe someone is "obnoxious for daring to ask me a question politely on an airplane."
I was very clear about a situation in I considered the asker to be rude and offensive: tapping me on the should when I'm settled in with headphones on trying to sleep. That is not "asking a question politely." Or do you think that it is?
You’ve made it clear someone is rude and disturbing you “unnecessarily” if the ask you after you’ve “settled in” (but again you’ve made it clear you don’t like poachers too), even if you didn’t specifically use the word “onboxious”.
All you’re arguing now is semantics. “No, I didn’t say I was ‘angry’, I said I was ‘mad’”.
And then you ask someone else if they’re playing politician word games? Seriously?
#1632
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
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Posts: 10,356
However, I never said that I believe someone is "obnoxious for daring to ask me a question politely on an airplane."
I was very clear about a situation in I considered the asker to be rude and offensive: tapping me on the should when I'm settled in with headphones on trying to sleep. That is not "asking a question politely." Or do you think that it is
I was very clear about a situation in I considered the asker to be rude and offensive: tapping me on the should when I'm settled in with headphones on trying to sleep. That is not "asking a question politely." Or do you think that it is
Last edited by ATOBTTR; Oct 13, 2017 at 7:22 pm
#1634
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Atlanta
Programs: Delta Diamond; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 655
Well, again, you miss the point entirely, and, needless to say, I never said anything about allowing strangers into your home. I'll spell it out:
Asking the favor of a swap, farting and door-to-door solicitation are all legal.
Asking the favor of a swap, farting and door-to-door solicitation are ally annoying to some degree.
Are we clear now?
Asking the favor of a swap, farting and door-to-door solicitation are all legal.
Asking the favor of a swap, farting and door-to-door solicitation are ally annoying to some degree.
Are we clear now?
Hopefully you realize that by calling the last sentence of my prior post "substanceless and completely irrelevant to this discussion," you didn't, in fact, ignore it. To the contrary, you highlighted that it hit its mark. You must be one heck of a poker player.
Last edited by GatorBlues; Oct 13, 2017 at 9:47 pm
#1635
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Ah, now you're catching on. I expect them to leave me alone and not ask. Why in the world would you think it's remotely acceptable to bother someone with headphones on and eyes closed?
RUDE people are going to ask in those circumstances. That's the whole point. There is no RIGHT to have a swap request heard. I don't need to make myself available to you so that you can ask me for a favor.
No, it isn't. There is no right to go around pestering people about changing seats. 99.9% of people board a plane, take their assigned seats, and then go about their business without bothering anyone else.
That's essentially correct.
Are you serious? Really, in what world do you think it's acceptable to bother someone who's trying to sleep so you can ask them for a favor that, among other things, will require that they put all their gear away, get up and move somewhere else IF they agree?
I don't know anyone who wouldn't think that was incredibly rude. I've traveled all over their world and I've never been anywhere where that would not be considered. Honestly, if I was just dozing off and you tapped my shoulder and said, "Excuse me, but would you change seats with me so I can sit next to my?" my response wouldn't be polite and, probably, would include a threat to have the FA notify the police and have you arrested if you touched me again.
You don't want them poaching your seat. But you don't want them asking after you're settled in. Because people are going to ask.
That's part of traveling on a commercial airline.
So unless they happen to catch you at the moment you're getting to your seat or happen to be right behind you as you're boarding, the odds are very slim they'll catch you in the tiny window for which you define it as "not rude".
You choose to see it as rude but you leave someone little choice but to be rude as you define it.
Unless you have a sign around your neck as to what you define as rude and obnoxious, they have no idea what you consider rude. "Rude" is also subjective from person to person and culture to culture.