Skymiles Change Rumor?
Mar 19, 2012, 4:04 pm
#121
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: DL Diamond, Sky Club, United Club, Admirals Club, Hyatt Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 613
Redemption - the big potential change is if redemption is impacted. In this case some HVCs that book J travel to Europe or Japan will hate this change and switch very fast to star or one world. It sounds as though this may not be included in first phase but to me this is big potential change as this was the only way you could reliably get a better than 1-2 cent return on miles to places I like to travel to. Having said that, the decreased availability of low J awards in recent years has nearly driven me away so I expect some will stick with DL even in this scenario. I doubt domestic redeemers will be significantly impacted even if they go this route.
2 and 3 are variable, and limited. There may be others I am blanking out on.
I can see the merit of a program that creates a fixed conversion to DL. I think most of us would like a more transparent and consistent and reliable system too.
My habits are not normal, I am pretty sure I am close to a HVC if not actually one - I do about 30-35 paid domestic F a year many of which are TCON, and about 2 internationals every 3 years also paid F. I also pay for about 30-35 tickets for other people, but that just goes to my SkyBonus and I doubt DL credits me personally for the spend, I just get to spend the SkyBonus (which I never have).
I would appreciate the ability to spend SMs on any seat, any flight, any time for either the seat or an upgrade, but I am sure that if they did a program that allowed this the costs would be much more than an Award and a lot closer to pay with miles rate of conversion. I have always found Pay with Miles to be the least attractive method but I'm sure others appreciate it.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:05 pm
#122
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
I've been expecting this day for a while. Can't really blame Delta. If this is implemented, I am done with SM. Yes, I am a low-value, low-profit margin customer. But the fact is that those high-value customers will not fly weekends and holidays in seats left empty by me. Anyway, take a look at the discussion about Mileage Plus from last year, it's the same story all over.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:05 pm
#123
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
I have NO IDEA how I would shake out in the new system (if it indeed comes about). However, I can see DL wanting to dump a bunch of LUT elites on whom they are wasting perks. If they can give those that are truly contributing high profit margins and monitize the rest, they might be much-better off than giving a year's worth of upgrades to someone that found a mistake fare to SIN and flew it 5 times.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:07 pm
#124
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
I like the system as it is, as it takes us to maximize earning opportunity.[/QUOTE]
Maybe DL has run the numbers and determined that it doesn't.
Maybe DL has run the numbers and determined that it doesn't.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:07 pm
#125
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
EOS redemptions preview here: http://skybonus.delta.com/bizOrderAw...O_ORDER_AWARDS
(requires login first)
Small copy and paste from it:
Transpacific Rewards: Good for travel between the United States/Canada and Asia/Australia
SkyBonus - Transpacific - Coach Class Ticket 175,000
SkyBonus - Transpacific - Coach Class Ticket - Enhanced Availability 425,000
SkyBonus - Transpacific - BusinessElite Class Ticket 670,000
SkyBonus - Transpacific - BusinessElite Class Ticket - Enhanced Availability 1,100,000
SkyBonus - Transpacific - One-Way Full Fare Upgrade 200,000
(requires login first)
Small copy and paste from it:
Transpacific Rewards: Good for travel between the United States/Canada and Asia/Australia
SkyBonus - Transpacific - Coach Class Ticket 175,000
SkyBonus - Transpacific - Coach Class Ticket - Enhanced Availability 425,000
SkyBonus - Transpacific - BusinessElite Class Ticket 670,000
SkyBonus - Transpacific - BusinessElite Class Ticket - Enhanced Availability 1,100,000
SkyBonus - Transpacific - One-Way Full Fare Upgrade 200,000
Mar 19, 2012, 4:07 pm
#126
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 1,155
So suppose 1c = 1mile, we will need something like 500K miles for an international BE ticket.
PLEASE ANSWER THIS FOR ME: How can this be good for ANYONE? How can ANYONE want such a system?
Mar 19, 2012, 4:10 pm
#127
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,860
BTW, for those who argue that sLUT fares are not profitable. The solution is simple, eliminate those fare buckets. Don't sell those cheap fares. Heck, why is Delta so stupid as to sell those cheap fares.
If Delta should stop selling cheap seats, the result of course will be empty seats and profits will turn to losses. Why? Because selling those seats brings in the incremental revenue that is the difference between profits and losses. Managing that incremental revenue is why Revenue Management rules the roost at Delta. I see these proposed changes as Revenue Management completing its grip on Skymiles. It will be ugly.
Once again, the existing supply of SkyPesos will undergo a dramatic devaluation. This, of course, will be blamed on the bad customers aka gamers.
The decent thing to do would be to give us notice this summer to take effect 1/1/2013. The Delta thing to do will be to give 30 days notice, or maybe even zero as with the 72 hour rule.
David
Mar 19, 2012, 4:11 pm
#128
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,574
I have NO IDEA how I would shake out in the new system (if it indeed comes about). However, I can see DL wanting to dump a bunch of LUT elites on whom they are wasting perks. If they can give those that are truly contributing high profit margins and monitize the rest, they might be much-better off than giving a year's worth of upgrades to someone that found a mistake fare to SIN and flew it 5 times.
The number of people earning it on mistake fares to SIN et al is nowhere close to that figure.
And you and I have had this discussion before, but LUTs aren't always unprofitable fares. As I've mentioned at least four or five times before, there are LUT fares in many markets that are a higher yield per mile for DL than some M fares. But we digress. Again.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:11 pm
#129
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
With the integration issues at UA I was having some second thoughts about leaving DL. Not anymore 
BTW, I heard the EXACT same "rumor" last year and posted about it here. In fact this mode of operation (quietly plan in the background and change the rules when they least expect it) is exactly why I left. UA has been completely up front about the changes but they are just plain choking on the systems integration piece. The DL game is going to change in a big way.
BTW, I heard the EXACT same "rumor" last year and posted about it here. In fact this mode of operation (quietly plan in the background and change the rules when they least expect it) is exactly why I left. UA has been completely up front about the changes but they are just plain choking on the systems integration piece. The DL game is going to change in a big way.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:11 pm
#130
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
"Fare Based Award Ticket Redemption" means the amount of miles for an award ticket depends on the fare.
So suppose 1c = 1mile, we will need something like 500K miles for an international BE ticket.
PLEASE ANSWER THIS FOR ME: How can this be good for ANYONE? How can ANYONE want such a system?
So suppose 1c = 1mile, we will need something like 500K miles for an international BE ticket.
PLEASE ANSWER THIS FOR ME: How can this be good for ANYONE? How can ANYONE want such a system?
I LOVE the idea of a fare-based award accrual, fare-based award redemtion, and ESPECIALLY fare-based MQM.
I am so tired of so many "Elites" clogging the system and clogging the benefits for those that contribute to the bottom line. When 1/3 of the plane is "elite", NOBODY is elite.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:13 pm
#131
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
"Fare Based Award Ticket Redemption" means the amount of miles for an award ticket depends on the fare.
So suppose 1c = 1mile, we will need something like 500K miles for an international BE ticket.
PLEASE ANSWER THIS FOR ME: How can this be good for ANYONE? How can ANYONE want such a system?
So suppose 1c = 1mile, we will need something like 500K miles for an international BE ticket.
PLEASE ANSWER THIS FOR ME: How can this be good for ANYONE? How can ANYONE want such a system?
Mar 19, 2012, 4:13 pm
#132
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: DTW/FNT
Programs: Delta (nee NW), Hilton Diamond. IHG (PT)
Posts: 4,823
Leave too many seats empty and your won't have to worry about filling them in the future.
Bob H.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:14 pm
#133
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
I would guestimate that the true number of FFs whom buy the lowest fare available for their route (rather than full fare Y or paid F) and routinely travel on anything from sLUT up to HKQ is closer to 80%.
The number of people earning it on mistake fares to SIN et al is nowhere close to that figure.
And you and I have had this discussion before, but LUTs aren't always unprofitable fares. As I've mentioned at least four or five times before, there are LUT fares in many markets that are a higher yield per mile for DL than some M fares. But we digress. Again.
The number of people earning it on mistake fares to SIN et al is nowhere close to that figure.
And you and I have had this discussion before, but LUTs aren't always unprofitable fares. As I've mentioned at least four or five times before, there are LUT fares in many markets that are a higher yield per mile for DL than some M fares. But we digress. Again.
Mar 19, 2012, 4:15 pm
#134
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Washington,DC
Posts: 1,822
Which is precisely why SM is a FREQUENT FLYER program and not a high value customer program. In effect, to make the system revenue driven, it is no longer a frequent flyer program and is now a pay-to-play program. But, people sign up for FF programs, they don't sign up for pay-to-play programs unless they've got serious bucks to spend on plane tix which is the precise market, in many ways, that DL Private Jets cater to. As a result of this type of change, my guess is that we will see a reduction in the number of new SM members with this type of program as well. What's the benefit to the average joe flyer who takes 1-2 trips per year and hopes that with non-expiring SMs that over time, he'll be able to trade those SMs in for an award trip? Now you've discouraged that person from signing up and paying for a ticket that costs hundreds more than the low cost carrier where he also gets free bags(cough, WN). This could be deadly just here in ATL alone with WN moving in and trying to make a name for themselves.
Comparing this to private jet cost is nonsensical
Callit a freq flyer plan but it's primary goal is to drive revenue for delta, you can argue tactical short term or long term revenue based on loyalty but it all comes down to dollars
Mar 19, 2012, 4:16 pm
#135
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 417
"Fare Based Award Ticket Redemption" means the amount of miles for an award ticket depends on the fare.
So suppose 1c = 1mile, we will need something like 500K miles for an international BE ticket.
PLEASE ANSWER THIS FOR ME: How can this be good for ANYONE? How can ANYONE want such a system?
So suppose 1c = 1mile, we will need something like 500K miles for an international BE ticket.
PLEASE ANSWER THIS FOR ME: How can this be good for ANYONE? How can ANYONE want such a system?
Y, B, M fares for sale = "high" award band redemption, incl. free redeposit at any time
H, Q, K fares = "medium" band
L, U, T fares = "low" band, no changes or redeposit