Is this against the rules?
Jan 1, 2012 | 7:14 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: MSP
Posts: 68
Is this against the rules?
I want to fly my kids to visit their grandparents. They are too young to fly as unaccompanied minors.
Ideally, I want to be on the same itinerary as they are - we'd all fly like this:
Itinerary A: February 1 - MSP-XXX, 3 passengers
Itinerary B: February 2 - XXX-MSP, just me
Itinerary B: February 14 - MSP-XXX, just me
Itinerary A: February 15 - XXX-MSP, 3 passengers
I feel like this might be considered against the rules, though I'm not doing this to get a cheaper ticket, I'm doing this because I want to be on the same PNR as my kids (I've had issues when we've been split in the past). Is there a way that Delta will allow this? Perhaps by using an alternate airport (for example, MDW vs. ORD on itinerary B)? Would calling in and paying a phone charge help?
Thanks.
Ideally, I want to be on the same itinerary as they are - we'd all fly like this:
Itinerary A: February 1 - MSP-XXX, 3 passengers
Itinerary B: February 2 - XXX-MSP, just me
Itinerary B: February 14 - MSP-XXX, just me
Itinerary A: February 15 - XXX-MSP, 3 passengers
I feel like this might be considered against the rules, though I'm not doing this to get a cheaper ticket, I'm doing this because I want to be on the same PNR as my kids (I've had issues when we've been split in the past). Is there a way that Delta will allow this? Perhaps by using an alternate airport (for example, MDW vs. ORD on itinerary B)? Would calling in and paying a phone charge help?
Thanks.
Jan 1, 2012 | 7:27 pm
#2
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: RIC/CHO
Programs: Delta Platinum, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 79
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this... but I believe this is only considered back-to-back ticketing (which is "against the rules") if it is used to circumvent a Saturday stay or minimum stay requirement in the fare rules.
*I think* if the rules for these fares don't contain such requirements, then you should be ok.
*I think* if the rules for these fares don't contain such requirements, then you should be ok.
Jan 1, 2012 | 7:35 pm
#3
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,572
These are the fare rules for a U class ticket I have, emphasis is mine where I think it applies:
I have no idea if that's what a "side trip" is but I don't see any problem with what you're doing, you're not abandoning a trip, it's a trip within a trip.
Code:
COMBINABILITY
DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED.
ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN MISCELLANEOUS
PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
END-ON-END
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE
COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/AF/KL/AZ
END-ON-END
FOR TRAVEL ON/BEFORE 22JUN 12
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH US-CANADA
TRANSBORDER/DOMESTIC FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE
COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/CO/UA/AA/AS/WS/AC/HA/
US/9K/WP/JV/ZK
END-ON-END
FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 04SEP 12
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH US-CANADA
TRANSBORDER/DOMESTIC FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE
COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/CO/UA/AA/AS/WS/AC/HA/
US/9K/WP/JV/ZK
OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS/MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE
TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH DL
FARES IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF.
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS.
A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE COMPONENTS PERMITTED.
MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN
MILEAGE OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.
-TO FORM 2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS
-TO FORM MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS
A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA LAX-ONT LAX-SNA NYC-EWR OAK-SFO
-TO FORM MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS
A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA LAX-ONT LAX-SNA NYC-EWR OAK-SFO
OAK-SJC SFO-SJC LAX-BUR
ROUTING 501 *** TRAVEL MUST BE NONSTOP OR DIRECT ***
Jan 1, 2012 | 8:42 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 36,868
This is not good advice in general, although in this specific case there does not appear to be cause for concern. If it were a 1-week trip there could be potential problems, depending on the stay requirements for the fare paid.
Jan 1, 2012 | 9:21 pm
#7
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: HSV
Programs: HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 880
Personally, I would just book it. Even if it's against some arcane rule somewhere, I think you can accurately and truthfully claim ignorance. Plus you have a (very) good reason for wanting to do it this way.
Jan 1, 2012 | 9:47 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
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Posts: 17,494
This is actually end-on-end ticketing and legal, as 2nd itin is completely nested within the first. Not against fare rules.
Jan 1, 2012 | 10:04 pm
#9
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: FNC
Posts: 318
So, if this is indeed illegal, who is the governing party should someone fly another airline for one of these round trips? Pretty silly in my opinion for Delta to drive you to another carrier to make sense out of your legitimate needs!
Jan 1, 2012 | 10:12 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 36,868
How so? It's not end-on-end; it's back-to-back and potentially illegal. In the (highly unlikely) scenario that the OP's first ticket required a 2-week minimum stay, the second ticket would illegally circumvent that requirement.
Jan 1, 2012 | 10:47 pm
#11
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, Hilton, National
Posts: 863
I don't think OP could truthfully claim ignorance-- at least not now, since the question has been asked and answered. Though I'm inclined to agree that DL would give a pass on this as a one-time thing, I'd ask for mercy and, knowing DL, expect they'd likely give it, if they even caught it at all.
Jan 2, 2012 | 5:44 am
#12
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Location: ATL
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Posts: 2,897
Jan 2, 2012 | 7:33 am
#13
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Location: NYC
Programs: AA LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 36,868
A nested itinerary is perfectly legal if you are not returning to your originating city. If you are, it becomes a back-to-back itinerary and potentially illegal. At least, that's always been my understanding.
Jan 2, 2012 | 8:57 am
#14
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,253
Read the rules
A lot of off-the-cuff opinions here from people who have a view of what the rules ought to be. But, the rules are what they are and you are flying with kids.
So, the only and best advice is to sit down and actually read the rules for the fare bucket(s) you seek to book. Particularly with the end of many Saturday stay requirements, the problems here are largely obviated.
This is a real nuisance, but you really do need to do it. Fare rules should be a link from the fare bucket quote.
So, the only and best advice is to sit down and actually read the rules for the fare bucket(s) you seek to book. Particularly with the end of many Saturday stay requirements, the problems here are largely obviated.
This is a real nuisance, but you really do need to do it. Fare rules should be a link from the fare bucket quote.
