FlyerTalk Forums - Is this against the rules?

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Is this against the rules?

I want to fly my kids to visit their grandparents. They are too young to fly as unaccompanied minors.

Ideally, I want to be on the same itinerary as they are - we'd all fly like this:
Itinerary A: February 1 - MSP-XXX, 3 passengers
Itinerary B: February 2 - XXX-MSP, just me
Itinerary B: February 14 - MSP-XXX, just me
Itinerary A: February 15 - XXX-MSP, 3 passengers

I feel like this might be considered against the rules, though I'm not doing this to get a cheaper ticket, I'm doing this because I want to be on the same PNR as my kids (I've had issues when we've been split in the past). Is there a way that Delta will allow this? Perhaps by using an alternate airport (for example, MDW vs. ORD on itinerary B)? Would calling in and paying a phone charge help?

Thanks.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this... but I believe this is only considered back-to-back ticketing (which is "against the rules") if it is used to circumvent a Saturday stay or minimum stay requirement in the fare rules.

*I think* if the rules for these fares don't contain such requirements, then you should be ok.

These are the fare rules for a U class ticket I have, emphasis is mine where I think it applies:

Code:

COMBINABILITY                                                  

   DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED.                             

   ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN MISCELLANEOUS           

   PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.                                   

  END-ON-END                                                   

    END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE       

    COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS.     

   PROVIDED -                                                  

     COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/AF/KL/AZ                  

  END-ON-END                                                   

   FOR TRAVEL ON/BEFORE 22JUN 12                               

    END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH US-CANADA           

    TRANSBORDER/DOMESTIC FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE              

    COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS.     

   PROVIDED -                                                  

     COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/CO/UA/AA/AS/WS/AC/HA/     

     US/9K/WP/JV/ZK                                            

  END-ON-END                                                   

   FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 04SEP 12                                

    END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH US-CANADA           

    TRANSBORDER/DOMESTIC FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE              

    COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS.     

   PROVIDED -                                                  

     COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER DL/CO/UA/AA/AS/WS/AC/HA/     

     US/9K/WP/JV/ZK                                            

  OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS/MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE    

  TRIPS                                                        

    FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH DL   

    FARES IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF.                              

    -TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS.                                 

     A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE COMPONENTS PERMITTED.                 

     MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN       

     MILEAGE OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.             

    -TO FORM 2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS                          

    -TO FORM MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS                      

     A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED.               

 NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-    

        BWI-WAS  FLL-MIA  LAX-ONT  LAX-SNA  NYC-EWR  OAK-SFO   

    -TO FORM MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS                      

     A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED.               

 NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-    

        BWI-WAS  FLL-MIA  LAX-ONT  LAX-SNA  NYC-EWR  OAK-SFO   

        OAK-SJC  SFO-SJC  LAX-BUR                              

                                                               

ROUTING  501 *** TRAVEL MUST BE NONSTOP OR DIRECT ***

I have no idea if that's what a "side trip" is but I don't see any problem with what you're doing, you're not abandoning a trip, it's a trip within a trip.

For example if you are on a 2 week trip and you suddenly had to go back home and come back to continue your trip, why would it be against any rules? I dont think you should be worried about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikonos (Post 17728538)

For example if you are on a 2 week trip and you suddenly had to go back home and come back to continue your trip, why would it be against any rules? I dont think you should be worried about it.

This is not good advice in general, although in this specific case there does not appear to be cause for concern. If it were a 1-week trip there could be potential problems, depending on the stay requirements for the fare paid.

Shouldn't the two itinerary's be separate from one another? I think they are sold as two separate tickets and each ticket should be viewed in its isolation.

Personally, I would just book it. Even if it's against some arcane rule somewhere, I think you can accurately and truthfully claim ignorance. Plus you have a (very) good reason for wanting to do it this way.

This is actually end-on-end ticketing and legal, as 2nd itin is completely nested within the first. Not against fare rules.

So, if this is indeed illegal, who is the governing party should someone fly another airline for one of these round trips? Pretty silly in my opinion for Delta to drive you to another carrier to make sense out of your legitimate needs!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikonos (Post 17728889)

Shouldn't the two itinerary's be separate from one another? I think they are sold as two separate tickets and each ticket should be viewed in its isolation.

That's not the way it works, unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnredfox (Post 17729024)

This is actually end-on-end ticketing and legal, as 2nd itin is completely nested within the first. Not against fare rules.

How so? It's not end-on-end; it's back-to-back and potentially illegal. In the (highly unlikely) scenario that the OP's first ticket required a 2-week minimum stay, the second ticket would illegally circumvent that requirement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUDirt (Post 17728929)

Even if it's against some arcane rule somewhere, I think you can accurately and truthfully claim ignorance.

I don't think OP could truthfully claim ignorance-- at least not now, since the question has been asked and answered. Though I'm inclined to agree that DL would give a pass on this as a one-time thing, I'd ask for mercy and, knowing DL, expect they'd likely give it, if they even caught it at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnredfox (Post 17729024)

This is actually end-on-end ticketing and legal, as 2nd itin is completely nested within the first. Not against fare rules.

This is the correct answer. Nested itineraries are legal.

I hope you and your kids enjoy their trip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keeton (Post 17730212)

This is the correct answer. Nested itineraries are legal.

I hope you and your kids enjoy their trip.

A nested itinerary is perfectly legal if you are not returning to your originating city. If you are, it becomes a back-to-back itinerary and potentially illegal. At least, that's always been my understanding.

A lot of off-the-cuff opinions here from people who have a view of what the rules ought to be. But, the rules are what they are and you are flying with kids.

So, the only and best advice is to sit down and actually read the rules for the fare bucket(s) you seek to book. Particularly with the end of many Saturday stay requirements, the problems here are largely obviated.

This is a real nuisance, but you really do need to do it. Fare rules should be a link from the fare bucket quote.

Used to do....

A) ABC-DEF
...1 week...
B) DEF-ABC
...1 month later....
B) ABC-DEF
...1 week...
A) DEF-ABC

Which I am pretty sure is against the rules ;)