florin

Why the hate for flights that are not DL-coded, but are operated by DL, in the context of the current JV?

I've been a NW elite and I got spoiled by the seamless integration with KL. I know how good it can be, and it can be very frustrating to experience what the DL/KL/AF JV isn't.

Examples:

• Seating issues (widely known on this board)... the ability to choose seats on partner flight or on DL's own flights when sold by a partner (a KL or AF ticket stock).
• Medallion upgrade issues: if you're a DELTA medallion on a DELTA domestic flight, if the flight is a code share you are not eligible for UGs. Not cool.
• Promotions: I got the 75% FO mileage bonus promotion. It's only good for DL marketed/operated flights. NW never excluded NW flights from promos because they were sold by a JV partner. I find it ridiculous that a DL-operated TATL flights that part of the JV and that generate revenue for DL are excluded. Furthermore, NW always included KL flights in their promos. I find this to be a very anti-JV attitude, instead of marketing the JV in general (e.g. TATL flights on KL/AF/DL or even DL flights sold by KL/AF/DL) they exclude their JV partners.
• Earning mileage: discrimination between DL-coded and AF-coded flights, on equivalent fare classes (fares that are the same price)

Is DL inching towards a stronger partnership for an enhanced customer experience? ("inching" may be an overstatement... maybe nanometering) Or is all hope lost in this regard?

zsmith2

gte157q

i'm not too familiar with how all this works, and i agree the benefits should apply, but isn't the way around it to just buy DL ticket stock for a DL operated flight instead of AF/KLM? i imagine that's what they are trying to get you to do, so i wouldn't be surprised if the answer is it costs more...

florin

zsmith2, it is true - this JUST happened to me. I have a KL-issued ticket and for the domestic part of the itin (2 flights to/from DTW) showed not eligible for an UG. I emailed DL and this is what they said:

florin

There are several problems with that. (1) Not all tickets can be conveniently booked as DL-coded flights, for various reasons. (e.g. It is possible for a company to have a contract with KL or AF and all the tickets are normally issued as KL/AF flights.) (2) Why the discrimination in the first place? Why should I have to find ways around when it is a clearly stated benefit on the medallion website? I'm tired of workarounds with DL. If NW did it, why can't DL implement a more customer-friendly JV?

zsmith2

I think the keyword the rep said was "automatic". The computer may not recognize it but an agent should be able to put you on the list. I've seen it done many times through codeshares automatically but YMMV.

Tom Williams

I think this is also not quite right. I recently took a trip in paid business class on Korean Air, and got less milles and less MQMs than the same trip on Delta.

The image below is from the "Ways to Earn Miles" section of the website. Note that discounted biz fares on KE (I was in O) earn less Delta miles & MQMs than Delta discounted biz fares.

Correction: ALL biz fares on KE earn less SMs & MQMs than Delta.

zsmith2

The OP is talking about JV flights (AF/KL) not Skyteam partners.

Tom Williams

I stand corrected.

Still, I was disappointed to get lower benefits from an original Skyteam partner.

florin

You may be right. The part that I had left out of that quote (when I used "[..]") was this:
So if they could just place me on the UG list, why didn't they just do that (as opposed to going through the trouble of re-issuing the ticket)? Is it because they would have to put me on the UG list while the UG window is open (T-5 days)?

It's still odd that as a DL medallion on a DL flight I need to have additional manual processing. Furthermore, the SkyMiles Medallion program T&Cs say nothing about the DL-coded flights requirement.

This is bull!

You are right about earning SkyMiles on AF flights - that has indeed been corrected. Thanks for pointing that out!

Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM

With the addition of the statuses " upgrade eligible " and " upgrade requested " Delta seems to be moving to a situation where upgrades will only be " automatic " for those who manually request them.

Case in point. I recently flew a DL itinerary as an FB Plat under the new upgrade logic. My segments showed at a certain point as " upgrade eligible ". I was required to press a button in order to request an upgrade. They later showed as " upgrade requested " but I was not upgraded during the T-5 window as in the days of the old NW-KL JV. As people checked in for the flights I was moved to be the absolute last position on the upgrade lists and missed all the upgrades.

Presumably, had I not been obsessive compulsive about my reservation record and seen that I needed to request my automatic upgrade, I wouldn't even have been placed on the hopeless day of departure lists at all.

Now I am hearing that had these flights been purchased as part of a KLM itinerary, I wouldn't even have been eligible.

OK, DL, I gave you another chance. It is back to *A for me again.
What a joke.

bwallet

I'm based in Norway. My employer's travel office only offers us tickets through European carriers.

Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM

A lot of good that does. Given the bait and switch shell game of the code sharing agreements, you are potentially paying a premium for the KL ticket only to be flown after AMS exclusively on DL owned and operated airplanes -- or worse, much more worse, on perilously dangerous commuter airlines with inexperienced, exploited pilots that although they have a DL name on them are essentially run like some two bit African airline that has been placed on the blacklist and is prohibited from flying in Europe.

With the current move of DL it will also ensure that you don't have eligibility for the leftover scraps of benefits that would have been fully and automatically yours in the days of the customer-oriented NW-KL joint venture.

Another reason for your company to steer clear of Skyteam and only do business with *A.

jmertic

Right now I'm booked on an AF codeshare of a DL connection flight ATL-CLE in AF S class. Called SMS, and they said I'm on the upgrade list, even thought DL.com shows me as 'Not Upgrade Eligible'. Is this correct? When should me upgrade clear?

c_d

Florin, I feel with you!

Just today, I had yet another issue (in addition to the issues with the "NO FF CREDIT and the "NO FARE" as presented in another post) in CDG in which my connecting flight from CDG was operated by AF. Although being a ST Elite Plus, my original BP printed by DL showed no evidence of that and the reprint by AF did not either. Only my SM# was on there with a "FT" in front of it.

The result: no preferred seating, no n�1 access, no priority baggage - no nothing. Best thing is always to try and discuss with the AF gound staff that is perfectly qualified to speak English and really enjoys dealing with non-French passengers.

Another job well done by that joke of an alliance.