mersk862

That was before I saw AA had hopped into the bidding (and considering the UA/CO/NH and inevitable AA/JL JVs). I'd be shocked if they get 2 now with AA in...

My initial bets are HA/HNL, UA/SFO, DL/SEA and one of the NYC routes (either CO/EWR or AA/JFK).

hfly

If four heavies came in after 10PM then the airport limousine service would expand to accomodate these heavies, how small minded and zerosum to think otherwise.

N830MH

Who will be wins for which airlines to be announce. There is so much more route to be announce LAX, SEA, JFK-HND. Just keep your fingered crossing. Let's the speculations begin. If the restrictions will be eased due to the congestions in HND. It will have to be flexibility the schedules in the future if necessary from Japanese government to be approval. It will have to be reductions the congestions controlled in HND.

mersk862

What time do they currently end now? I do think that the prospect of getting an extra 1000 or so passengers in on 1000p arrivals might make an extension viable.

Looking at the applications, most of them look to arrive around 10p (I think the DL HNL one is the only one which is a midnight arrival; and let's face it, Delta is likely not getting HNL-HND).

ifette

I can't imagine actually wanting to fly one of these routes, especially as a business passenger. If they don't get business passengers on the route, how are they going to turn a profit?

If I land in Narita at 4:20 on DL635, I can catch the 4:45 Narita Express and be in Shibuya at 6pm, and not have to change trains at all, instead riding on the reasonably comfortable N'Ex. If you fly into Haneda, you have to deal with the crap monorail (not comfortable, slow and crowded), and it still takes forever. Assuming I land in HND at 10pm and clear customs etc at 10:30, I can get on the monorail and connect to rinkai/yamanote but it's still going to take 40 minutes, and will be on crowded local trains. (yamanote is a mess, even at 10pm, with luggage). So I save what? A half hour, but the tradeoff is arriving super late and having to deal with local trains? No thanks.

MAH4546

Four airlines will each get enough slots for one daily flights each. Nobody will get more than that, one airline will lose out. That is almost a certainty.

My non-expert opinion is that it will go UA/SFO, AA/LAX, DL/DTW and CO/EWR.

While HA would be a new entrant, it provides the smallest amount of public benefit to the general population and new slot openings at Narita will allow HA into Narita next year.

joejones

You're thinking from an American perspective. From a Japanese perspective, the late night arrival slots at HND let you leave the US in the evening, which saves you an extra overnight in the US and also increases the number of available same-day connections to Japan.

As far as ground transport goes, from HND a business passenger can expense a cab ride and get to central Tokyo fairly quickly at any time for around 7,000 yen (if that). If you're in a group of two or more, you can take a cab and break even versus the NEX/limousine bus from NRT, either of which is around 3,000 yen per head.

Or if you hate the monorail so much, you can take Keikyu. Last departure to Shinagawa leaves HND at midnight. 400 yen.

N830MH

There is problems lots of Japanese people who likes to ride on monorail but, it was too extremely overcrowded who rode on the monorail from HND to downtown Tokyo. You won't be necessary to ride on the monorail due to leaks of the overcrowded. I think that you would take on the taxicab from HND airport to downtown Tokyo or if you want to ride on the city bus from terminals.

eddie1973

if you have nothing constructive to say, keep it to yourself

longtime lurker

HND isn't currently much of an international airport except for a handful of close-in Asian destinations - that's what NRT is for. With the new runway and international terminal, Japan is starting to allow more international flights at HND. Each country's carriers will be allocated some slots. Japan decided to limit the first round of USA-based carrier slots to the overnight hours from 10PM or so to 7AM or so. NRT has a night curfew for most of that period, so it's virtually impossible to have an evening flight from most of the lower 48 USA to Tokyo right now. The HND slots will change that.

joejones

In my experience, Keikyu is usually less crowded because the trains have a much larger capacity. I still take the monorail because it's a bit faster and the view is much better -- on Keikyu you're basically looking at back-alleys in Ota Ward, one of the most run-down parts of Tokyo.

As for the "why not HND" question -- too many vested interests at NRT. It took the national government 40+ years to reach a somewhat amicable relationship with the local Chiba people, who are now too economically reliant on the airport to give it up. That and the fact that HND, even if expanded, could not absorb all the traffic of NRT.

All that said, I really want to live in a scenario where NRT essentially becomes the Gatwick/Orly of Tokyo -- a cheaper, more distant, less convenient environment focused on lower-margin O&D traffic while business and connecting pax are funneled into HND.

humanoid94

Interesting filing. I hope that Delta gets at least one of these slots. The nice thing about the timing and HND is that a business person could work a full day or nearly a full day on the outbound day. Under the current arrangement, both the outbound and inbound days are shot when flying into NRT. It seems like the most logical award for DL would be DTW, giving them a good connecting opportunity from the entire eastern seaboard.

Osakaboy

Some people dont like to take the monorail to Hamamatsu cho(JR line). I usually take the limousine bus or Keikyu line. Like Joejones said, Keikyu is less crowded that monorail, but depending on the time. HND will provide more limousine buss, Keikyu or monoail, for sure. Now the last flight of the day arrives at 10pm from Okinawa ans 10:15pm from seoul. It will be fine for the midnight flights.
As a Japanese customer, the new slots work for me. I am going to move to AMS pretty soon. I think that Japanese government accepts couple slots for Japanese & European airlnes. It is very useful, if I can fly from HND to the U.S. & Europe.
Sorry folks, Japanese government has been inconsistent in airport/airline policies. NRT(not in Tokyo, in Chiba) has a night curfew. NRT doesnt have any midnight & early morning flight. Departure flights in the mornig start from 8:45. (Arrival ones land from 6 am.) NRT is quite separate from Tokyo metropilitan area. NRT has just 2 runways. Basically only one(4000m) is used for the wide bodies. The other(2500m) is used for narrow bodies or some arrival flights of wide ones.
In the future, I hope NRT becomes for LCCs, cargo freighters or Japan Air force(US airforce, instead of YOKOTA base).

Wiirachay

DL's arrival in Tokyo is excellent, as you can finish your business in the USA and then arrive in Tokyo in the evening - going straight to bed. The current setup for all USA to NRT traffic is obnoxious - where departures are mid-day, arriving mid-day. That forces all business travelers to either work half a day or fly on a Saturday.

Who brought up the idea of connecting traffic for DL @ HND? Isn't the point of the route to bring people to Tokyo?

- Pat

joejones

Shintaro Ishihara, the otherwise bone-headed governor of Tokyo, has proposed evicting the USAF from Yokota and converting it to a civil airport, which would be a very interesting scenario. Yokota is right on the Chuo Line, which is basically a straight shot to Shinjuku, and there is already a spur line in place for delivering jet fuel to the base, so it would be fairly straightforward to convert the site. There is precedent for this too: HND and ITM were both US air bases for a time in the 40s and 50s before reverting to Japan in phases.

But that's a different thread, I think...