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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 10:07 am
  #46  
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If the OP is looking for opinions that agree with his own - there is no reason to stay - I can offer a list of about 20 posters who put forward that opinion again, and again...
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 10:09 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by BobRoss
Are they? Delta carries over 160 million people per year.

Southwest? 101.
American? 85.
United? 81.
Continental? 62.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_largest_airlines

So, yes all things being equal I would expect to see more complaints about DL simply because of their size. I'm not excusing or apologizing for DL behavior, just suggesting that # of complaints (in a subjective forum such as this) is probably not a good indicator of larger trends.

I haven't done any sort of statistical analysis on it, but the FlyerTalker population isn't exactly a "random sample" -- we've got a lot of sampling bias here.
160 million represents the number carried by both Delta and Northwest in 2009. Now they have one operating certificate, it would be interesting to see a breakdown of passengers carried by operating certificate. Subtract out those carried by Comair, SkyWest, ASA, Pinnacle, etc., and then see who's the largest.
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 10:09 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Moebius01
Unfortunately, I don't commit every article from every publication I read to memory, so you may be right that it wasn't BizWeek (though that's sticking in my head).
Yet, amazingly, you see nothing wrong with posting something as 'fact', even when you can't actually remember it...

Originally Posted by Moebius01
If Delta put as much effort into improving their product offering as you do into trying to convince people that they're actually really happy with Delta, they'd be leading the pack by now.
I don't think that people are really happy with Delta. I think they (and the other airlines) should aim to have most people be ambivalent, which would probably be an improvement. I simply object to people tossing out the same inaccurate claims of 'lots' of surveys showing DL at the bottom and then not being able to actually name any such survey. It is, frankly, dishonest.

Originally Posted by Moebius01
But, since you want scientific, how's this? According to the Department of Transportation, based on January to October 2009, Delta had the highest number of complaints among major US carriers at 1.67 per 100,000 fliers. Second to worst on baggage incident reports per 1000.
There is a whole thread on this, and I will say the same thing I said there. If you want to try and judge overall customer satisfaction based upon complaints from 0.0017% of an airline's customers, be my guest, but the 'fact' is that the statistics provided do not really provide you with any real support for that claim.
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 10:21 am
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
Yet, amazingly, you see nothing wrong with posting something as 'fact', even when you can't actually remember it...
First off, I did not state it as fact, I simply commented that I have read more than one survey where Delta scored rather low and listed a few of them. The fact I failed to remember where one of these came from has little bearing.

I don't think that people are really happy with Delta. I think they (and the other airlines) should aim to have most people be ambivalent, which would probably be an improvement. I simply object to people tossing out the same inaccurate claims of 'lots' of surveys showing DL at the bottom and then not being able to actually name any such survey. It is, frankly, dishonest.
Actually, I, along with others listed several surveys and links which you proceeded to try and spin in this way or that to make it look better. Which is more dishonest?

There is a whole thread on this, and I will say the same thing I said there. If you want to try and judge overall customer satisfaction based upon complaints from 0.0017% of an airline's customers, be my guest, but the 'fact' is that the statistics provided do not really provide you with any real support for that claim.
You must be a politician, or perhaps a lawyer? The spin you try to put on things is staggering. You're now discounting DOT statistics as invalid because they don't include a large enough sampling? Does the fact that they aggregated those numbers across the board mean nothing? It was complaints per x number of travelers. So basically, you're saying that the x number of travelers per 100,000 complaining about Delta are somehow different than the x number of travelers per 100,00 complaining about the other airlines? This is somehow your 'fact'? If forgetting a specific survey location is dishonest as you alluded, I would submit trying to spin every possible number so it's not as bad as it appears is delusional.
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 10:51 am
  #50  
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 10:51 am
  #51  
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Originally Posted by mike101
IMO, Delta is awesome when it comes to operating their flights... and if you are a hub captive, Delta is the clear choice. When it comes to the SkyMiles program, that's another story.

So to answer the original question of the OP, if you are looking for a FF program that is honest and best in class, that is anything but Delta. But if you are looking for a good airline that can get you from point A to point B, Delta is competitive.
Well said, we should make the distinction between the FF program and the airline.
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 11:34 am
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Originally Posted by DeltaFirst
Well said, we should make the distinction between the FF program and the airline.
This much is true. I'd say the best bet is to weigh the various factors based on how they appeal to you (you referring to a traveler in this case) and use that to decide.

For me, Delta is my only choice for non-stop service, and convenience is currently at the top of my list. So I stick with them, even when I'm dissatisfied with the level of service I feel they put out right now. If I was flying more routes where I'd have to connect anyway, I'd likely try the other options out to see which I liked better.

Comparing FF programs, while Delta seems to be continually stripping the things I liked about NWA's, it still seems better than most (or at least the same) from my view as a Silver. It's hard to compare since I've not had status on other airlines (had UAL, and AA at various points) in a few years, but from what I've seen of them, even the stripped Delta is about the same.
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 2:01 pm
  #53  
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A "happy" criteria is a mistake. Assuming no other reason dictates your airline e.g. routes, hub, etc. the criteria should be which airline makes you the least angry on a consistent basis, recognizing that one really bad experience can be the deciding factor. Identify that airline and you have the answer to your question. For some folks, it is DL. I am currently not one of them.
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 2:06 pm
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Originally Posted by mhbaker
A "happy" criteria is a mistake. Assuming no other reason dictates your airline e.g. routes, hub, etc. the criteria should be which airline makes you the least angry on a consistent basis, recognizing that one really bad experience can be the deciding factor. Identify that airline and you have the answer to your question. For some folks, it is DL. I am currently not one of them.
A very short, and sad but true, commentary on our times. Remember not so long ago when it seemed airlines did lots of little things to try and make pax feel special? Now we're forced to decide on who treats us the least badly. Man how I miss the "good ole days".
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 2:15 pm
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
Really? Show me a single, legit c-sat survey that says this. Even better, show me a 'lot' of them.

This has taken on a life of its own and, frankly, it needs to stop. It simply isn't supported by any evidence that I can find. I'm open to seeing it, but nobody has provided any such link on this board. Instead, we have a bunch of people that read someone say this and decided that they should just repeat it, even though they couldn't tell you if it is true or not.
You really have rose-colored glasses when it comes to DL, my friend. Defending DL's customer service is a huge to me.

Originally Posted by Moebius01
You must be a politician, or perhaps a lawyer? The spin you try to put on things is staggering. You're now discounting DOT statistics as invalid because they don't include a large enough sampling? Does the fact that they aggregated those numbers across the board mean nothing? It was complaints per x number of travelers. So basically, you're saying that the x number of travelers per 100,000 complaining about Delta are somehow different than the x number of travelers per 100,000 complaining about the other airlines? This is somehow your 'fact'? If forgetting a specific survey location is dishonest as you alluded, I would submit trying to spin every possible number so it's not as bad as it appears is delusional.
Bravo. I said something similar when he was repeating similar nonsensical, ignorant-of-statistics nonsense on another thread regarding that very DOT survey.

Last edited by judolphin; Jan 20, 2010 at 2:30 pm
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 3:23 pm
  #56  
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I'm sticking with them because of price. Consistently out of PHX (and soon, my new home of Las Vegas) they come up the cheapest to where I have to go. I'll save the money and fly with them. Plus, they tend to have fly aircraft with large F cabins (757s and 767s) to both PHX and LAS so as a Silver, I have a decent shot at an upgrade.
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 3:28 pm
  #57  
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Wow, I wasn't expecting such a huge response. Thanks so much everyone for your thoughts, I really appreciate it! ^

What I've taken from this thread and my own experiences is that US-based airlines are generally mediocre, and Delta is no exception. Maybe what happened to me and my fellow passengers could happen on many large airlines, although perhaps it's less surprising when flying with Delta. The "least bad" comment is too true.

Guess I can't go wrong avoiding Delta. It's not like I have 500,000 Skymiles to burn. I'll just use up the little bit I have (if they let me!) and move on. Life's too short.

Thanks again, everyone, for your valuable input!
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Old Jan 20, 2010 | 8:52 pm
  #58  
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Well said, we should make the distinction between the FF program and the airline.
Maybe, but in my opinion, using the FF program as a reason to stay on a bad airline is just saying "well, I don't mind so much being treated like **** as long as you bribe me enough for the rotten experience". You're sending the wrong message to the airline- that you can accept bad customer service as long as there's the occasional luxury flight you can take on some OTHER airline.

I think airlines need to concentrate on the experience you have flying on their planes first and foremost, THEN worry about "hey, how do we reward loyalty" after that, as well as the experience a first-time/non-elite flyer has flying your airline (and inducing your loyalty).

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Jan 20, 2010 at 8:57 pm
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Old Jan 21, 2010 | 12:05 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by obscure2k
According to your first post in this thread:
"I'm probably going to focus on other airlines, maybe AA. The way I see it is, if someone offered me $50 to lose my clothing, make me sick, treat me like a felon and steal time with friends and family, I would, uh, refuse that offer."
So, are you going to refuse the 25000 miles or $200.00 which was offered?
Just curious.
Let's turn that around for you.

How much money would you feel you were owed if you lost an appendage in a work accident?

Can I offer you that much money now? I can get a saw.

Last edited by MrPink; Jan 21, 2010 at 12:49 am
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Old Jan 21, 2010 | 10:17 am
  #60  
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Just so we're clear, my note of the $50 (quoted in the post above) is a reference to Delta prices, which in my experience tend to be about $50 cheaper than other airlines. I was trying to say that paying $50 less but receiving bad service, or in other words, being paid $50 to get bad service, isn't worth it. It was a reference to ticket pricing, not the voucher ($200 or 25K Skymiles) I was offered for a previous flight.
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